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Alox

Talent: One-on-One

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So tier 2 talent introduced by the Enemies Beyond:

 

Effect: When fighting a single enemy in melee combat, the character scores extra degrees of success on successful Weapon Skill tests equal to half of his Weapon Skill bonus (rounded down).

 

To me this sounds a bit over the top, given that most melee situations is often one on one. Could it be intended for Standard (single) attacks only or does it really include dual wield lightning attacks?

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My players almost never enter into melee combat on a one vs. one basis, so I don't have a problem with it.  I'm more likely to give it to an 'honorable' bad guy who challenges them to a duel.

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One-on-One is actually an upscaled version of the talent Duelist from Only War. Duelist originally was T1 instead of T2, but also required Sure Strike (which was changed to Precision Killer), didn't need as much WS (35 as opposed to 40), and granted a flat +2 DoS instead of a scaling amount.

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My players almost never enter into melee combat on a one vs. one basis, so I don't have a problem with it.  I'm more likely to give it to an 'honorable' bad guy who challenges them to a duel.

 

So you understand it as a formal duel, and not in a situation where you and only you are hitting one guy that is hitting back on you, while the rest of the gang is involved with other party members?

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No, it's any one vs. one fight.  My melee-focused player will almost never get a one vs. one fight except in some kind of challenged duel; otherwise they're going to get swarmed.  She's got power-swords, plural.  Individuals don't go into fights with them alone unless they're insane or that good.  

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No, it's any one vs. one fight.  My melee-focused player will almost never get a one vs. one fight except in some kind of challenged duel; otherwise they're going to get swarmed.  She's got power-swords, plural.  Individuals don't go into fights with them alone unless they're insane or that good.  

 

A dual power swords lightning attack dude doesn't need guaranteed extra 2-3 hits on each weapon every round. This talents is just so poorly designed.

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Anyone who is using two power swords without penalty, has Lightning Attack, and has a solid WS score to back it up (to get around the penalty for Lightning Attack) obviously has a fair bit of XP. I'm not going to begrudge them an ability that's about giving them what is at that point an overkill ability. (It probably isn't overkill on a greater daemon, but against them you need all the help you can get.) Ever heard of Win More from Magic? It's the same concept.

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Anyone who is using two power swords without penalty, has Lightning Attack, and has a solid WS score to back it up (to get around the penalty for Lightning Attack) obviously has a fair bit of XP. I'm not going to begrudge them an ability that's about giving them what is at that point an overkill ability. (It probably isn't overkill on a greater daemon, but against them you need all the help you can get.) Ever heard of Win More from Magic? It's the same concept.

 

So you are saying that the dual power sword lightning dude is already so far ahead of the the rest that it doesn't matter? But for the GM that desperately tries to give interesting encounters to all players in the party it does matter that the divide grows even further. If this talent for instance had been restricted to non-dual wield it would have lifted the single weapon user closer to the dual weapon user... all this talent does is showing a lack of understanding for the game system it is designed to work in.

Edited by Alox

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The amount of investment needed to make One-on-One good could also be spent on making other combat concepts similarly good. As above, using this combo reliably requires the character to spend time and/or XP on dual-wielding, Swift/Lightning Attack, access to high-Craftsmanship VR weapons, and a boosted WS score. I assume the rest of the party aren't just sitting on their thumbs with expenditures. If they're at the same XP threshold then they're likely also capable of doing things like this with various high-end weapons, several of which will actually outclass power swords on a reliable basis. (I should mention that the Autocannon is in the core rulebook, is also VR, and has consistently been one of the best weapons in the game.)

 

Basically, don't consider how great the benefit of the talent is, but instead consider the opportunity cost of taking it.

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Anyone who is using two power swords without penalty, has Lightning Attack, and has a solid WS score to back it up (to get around the penalty for Lightning Attack) obviously has a fair bit of XP. I'm not going to begrudge them an ability that's about giving them what is at that point an overkill ability. (It probably isn't overkill on a greater daemon, but against them you need all the help you can get.) Ever heard of Win More from Magic? It's the same concept.

 

So you are saying that the dual power sword lightning dude is already so far ahead of the the rest that it doesn't matter? But for the GM that desperately tries to give interesting encounters to all players in the party it does matter that the divide grows even further. If this talent for instance had been restricted to non-dual wield it would have lifted the single weapon user closer to the dual weapon user... all this talent does is showing a lack of understanding for the game system it is designed to work in.

 

 

One-on-One really shines when partnered with Inescapable Attack (Melee), making the single weapon wielder alot more deadly than their Lightning Striking counterparts who have to rely on Killing Strike and a Fate Point to get near the level of awesome this combination. Add in Crushing Blow and Hammer Blow, and you got yourself a single hitter monster that's consecutively stunning his opponents. 

 

If you want to get really retarded with this combination of a Thunder Hammering, Power Swordin' One-on-One'r, throw in good ol' fashioned Frenzy to the mix for extra boosts. 

Honestly, I think this talent really just drives home the one weapon wielder up to the level of awesome on a competitive edge to the multi weapon wielder, since this one weapon guy can reliably take care of those ass-hats high agility dodgers.  

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The amount of investment needed to make One-on-One good could also be spent on making other combat concepts similarly good. As above, using this combo reliably requires the character to spend time and/or XP on dual-wielding, Swift/Lightning Attack, access to high-Craftsmanship VR weapons, and a boosted WS score. I assume the rest of the party aren't just sitting on their thumbs with expenditures. If they're at the same XP threshold then they're likely also capable of doing things like this with various high-end weapons, several of which will actually outclass power swords on a reliable basis. (I should mention that the Autocannon is in the core rulebook, is also VR, and has consistently been one of the best weapons in the game.)

 

Basically, don't consider how great the benefit of the talent is, but instead consider the opportunity cost of taking it.

 

Autocannon is a multicrew weapon, and even if you, with mechanized help and ammobackpack, manage to do a single person setup, it still has a huge issue with subtlety. At high XP there is no outclassing of dual wielding bladed weapons (there is even a talent to reroll a miss with bladed weapons every round!).

 

The world doesn't end because some things are unbalanced in Dark Heresy, and I think I have voiced plenty of opinion on this, so I will let it rest for now. :-)

 

 

 

Anyone who is using two power swords without penalty, has Lightning Attack, and has a solid WS score to back it up (to get around the penalty for Lightning Attack) obviously has a fair bit of XP. I'm not going to begrudge them an ability that's about giving them what is at that point an overkill ability. (It probably isn't overkill on a greater daemon, but against them you need all the help you can get.) Ever heard of Win More from Magic? It's the same concept.

 

So you are saying that the dual power sword lightning dude is already so far ahead of the the rest that it doesn't matter? But for the GM that desperately tries to give interesting encounters to all players in the party it does matter that the divide grows even further. If this talent for instance had been restricted to non-dual wield it would have lifted the single weapon user closer to the dual weapon user... all this talent does is showing a lack of understanding for the game system it is designed to work in.

 

 

One-on-One really shines when partnered with Inescapable Attack (Melee), making the single weapon wielder alot more deadly than their Lightning Striking counterparts who have to rely on Killing Strike and a Fate Point to get near the level of awesome this combination. Add in Crushing Blow and Hammer Blow, and you got yourself a single hitter monster that's consecutively stunning his opponents. 

 

If you want to get really retarded with this combination of a Thunder Hammering, Power Swordin' One-on-One'r, throw in good ol' fashioned Frenzy to the mix for extra boosts. 

Honestly, I think this talent really just drives home the one weapon wielder up to the level of awesome on a competitive edge to the multi weapon wielder, since this one weapon guy can reliably take care of those ass-hats high agility dodgers.  

 

 

I agree that this talent is really useful for the single weapon user and a welcomed addition for those setups.

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