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Tancradus

Stun Damage and Temple Guard Lightsaber Pike

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I have a Temple Guard Lightsaber Pike which has Stun 4 on it, what happens when I change out the crystal to a Kimber Stone?  Does that make it base stun damage of 13???  Can someone please explain?

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The "Stun X" quality is not additional stun damage. When a weapon was "Stun X", you spend 2 advantage to deal "x" strain damage. Unlike weapons that have the "Stun Damage" or the "Stun Setting" quality, this damage is not soaked.

 

So to answer your question, your lightsaber deals 9 (+ successes) strain damage that can be soaked, and you can spend 2 advantage to deal an additional 4 strain damage that cannot be soaked.

Edited by kaosoe

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The "Stun X" quality is not additional stun damage. When a weapon was "Stun X", you spend 2 advantage to deal "x" strain damage. Unlike weapons that have the "Stun Damage" or the "Stun Setting" quality, this damage is not soaked.

 

So to answer your question, your lightsaber deals 9 (+ successes) strain damage that can be soaked, and you can spend 2 advantage to deal an additional 4 strain damage that cannot be soaked.

 

Awesome Thanks!

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You cannot access the Stun 4 multiple times if you have additional advantages? i.e.. 8 stun for 4 advantage?  Was just wondering if it can be treated like auto fire, which is a little broken ...

Edited by Tancradus

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You cannot access the Stun 4 multiple times if you have additional advantages? i.e.. 8 stun for 4 advantage?  Was just wondering if it can be treated like auto fire, which is a little broken ...

Unless a weapon quality directly says otherwise in its description in the core rulebook, then it can only be activated once.  Things like Autofire and Sunder are specifically noted as being able to be triggered multiple times.  Stun doesn't have that verbiage, so you only get to trigger it once per hit.

 

Now in the case of the Temple Guard 'saber staff, if you generated 6 advantage, then you could potentially get to inflict 8 strain, as you'd have scored two hits (Linked 1) and would be able to trigger Stun 4 once per hit.  Granted, you'd need a lot of advantage (or a few advantage and a couple Triumphs), but it is possible.

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Speaking of Stun quality. For this, and other weapons with Stun and HP, what if you add an attachment that gives Stun?  Would you have 2 separate Stun qualities that must both be activated or would you add the stun damage together for one activated quality?

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Speaking of Stun quality. For this, and other weapons with Stun and HP, what if you add an attachment that gives Stun?  Would you have 2 separate Stun qualities that must both be activated or would you add the stun damage together for one activated quality?

They'd be separate Stun qualities.  Unless the text specifically says otherwise, then activated weapon qualities of the same type generally wouldn't stack.  Defensive and Vicious are examples of weapon qualities that do stack, but they're also passive.

 

Now the GM can rule differently for their game if they so choose, but they also need to be wary of creating some nasty combinations in the process.  With Stun, the fact that it completely bypasses the target's soak is frequently offset by the fact it has a fairly low damage value, one that (I believe) does not get boosted by successes on the combat check.  If you start allowing Stun X from different sources to stack into a single Stun weapon quality, that could very easily wipe out minions and rivals with a single hit and 2 advantage simply because those targets treat strain as wounds.

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Speaking of Stun quality. For this, and other weapons with Stun and HP, what if you add an attachment that gives Stun?  Would you have 2 separate Stun qualities that must both be activated or would you add the stun damage together for one activated quality?

They'd be separate Stun qualities.  Unless the text specifically says otherwise, then activated weapon qualities of the same type generally wouldn't stack.  Defensive and Vicious are examples of weapon qualities that do stack, but they're also passive.

 

Now the GM can rule differently for their game if they so choose, but they also need to be wary of creating some nasty combinations in the process.  With Stun, the fact that it completely bypasses the target's soak is frequently offset by the fact it has a fairly low damage value, one that (I believe) does not get boosted by successes on the combat check.  If you start allowing Stun X from different sources to stack into a single Stun weapon quality, that could very easily wipe out minions and rivals with a single hit and 2 advantage simply because those targets treat strain as wounds.

 

That's how I've been handling it. I wasn't sure if there had been anything mentioned anywhere.  I searched and all I found was a similar question. 

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Speaking of Stun quality. For this, and other weapons with Stun and HP, what if you add an attachment that gives Stun?  Would you have 2 separate Stun qualities that must both be activated or would you add the stun damage together for one activated quality?

They'd be separate Stun qualities.  Unless the text specifically says otherwise, then activated weapon qualities of the same type generally wouldn't stack.  Defensive and Vicious are examples of weapon qualities that do stack, but they're also passive.

 

Now the GM can rule differently for their game if they so choose, but they also need to be wary of creating some nasty combinations in the process.  With Stun, the fact that it completely bypasses the target's soak is frequently offset by the fact it has a fairly low damage value, one that (I believe) does not get boosted by successes on the combat check.  If you start allowing Stun X from different sources to stack into a single Stun weapon quality, that could very easily wipe out minions and rivals with a single hit and 2 advantage simply because those targets treat strain as wounds.

 

Do defensive from a lightsaber, talent (such as the Mavashi Duelist) and the benefit from armour all stack?.  I know two weapons would not.

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Speaking of Stun quality. For this, and other weapons with Stun and HP, what if you add an attachment that gives Stun?  Would you have 2 separate Stun qualities that must both be activated or would you add the stun damage together for one activated quality?

They'd be separate Stun qualities.  Unless the text specifically says otherwise, then activated weapon qualities of the same type generally wouldn't stack.  Defensive and Vicious are examples of weapon qualities that do stack, but they're also passive.

 

Now the GM can rule differently for their game if they so choose, but they also need to be wary of creating some nasty combinations in the process.  With Stun, the fact that it completely bypasses the target's soak is frequently offset by the fact it has a fairly low damage value, one that (I believe) does not get boosted by successes on the combat check.  If you start allowing Stun X from different sources to stack into a single Stun weapon quality, that could very easily wipe out minions and rivals with a single hit and 2 advantage simply because those targets treat strain as wounds.

 

Do defensive from a lightsaber, talent (such as the Mavashi Duelist) and the benefit from armour all stack?.  I know two weapons would not.

 

That is... a tricky question. Officially the defense rules are under revision from the developers. Some would say multiple sources do not stack, and each defensive raise is used depending, while others would say some do stack. Until the new rules are released, it's in the air.

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Speaking of Stun quality. For this, and other weapons with Stun and HP, what if you add an attachment that gives Stun?  Would you have 2 separate Stun qualities that must both be activated or would you add the stun damage together for one activated quality?

They'd be separate Stun qualities.  Unless the text specifically says otherwise, then activated weapon qualities of the same type generally wouldn't stack.  Defensive and Vicious are examples of weapon qualities that do stack, but they're also passive.

 

Now the GM can rule differently for their game if they so choose, but they also need to be wary of creating some nasty combinations in the process.  With Stun, the fact that it completely bypasses the target's soak is frequently offset by the fact it has a fairly low damage value, one that (I believe) does not get boosted by successes on the combat check.  If you start allowing Stun X from different sources to stack into a single Stun weapon quality, that could very easily wipe out minions and rivals with a single hit and 2 advantage simply because those targets treat strain as wounds.

 

Do defensive from a lightsaber, talent (such as the Mavashi Duelist) and the benefit from armour all stack?.  I know two weapons would not.

 

That is... a tricky question. Officially the defense rules are under revision from the developers. Some would say multiple sources do not stack, and each defensive raise is used depending, while others would say some do stack. Until the new rules are released, it's in the air.

 

Any word as to when this may occur :)?

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Speaking of Stun quality. For this, and other weapons with Stun and HP, what if you add an attachment that gives Stun?  Would you have 2 separate Stun qualities that must both be activated or would you add the stun damage together for one activated quality?

They'd be separate Stun qualities.  Unless the text specifically says otherwise, then activated weapon qualities of the same type generally wouldn't stack.  Defensive and Vicious are examples of weapon qualities that do stack, but they're also passive.

 

Now the GM can rule differently for their game if they so choose, but they also need to be wary of creating some nasty combinations in the process.  With Stun, the fact that it completely bypasses the target's soak is frequently offset by the fact it has a fairly low damage value, one that (I believe) does not get boosted by successes on the combat check.  If you start allowing Stun X from different sources to stack into a single Stun weapon quality, that could very easily wipe out minions and rivals with a single hit and 2 advantage simply because those targets treat strain as wounds.

 

Do defensive from a lightsaber, talent (such as the Mavashi Duelist) and the benefit from armour all stack?.  I know two weapons would not.

 

That is... a tricky question. Officially the defense rules are under revision from the developers. Some would say multiple sources do not stack, and each defensive raise is used depending, while others would say some do stack. Until the new rules are released, it's in the air.

 

Any word as to when this may occur :)?

 

Sometime after this minute in time. That's the best I've got.

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as a rough guess i have taken this approach:

 

Some sources provide a static Defence value, i make the call that you can only benefit from a single one of these at any time for Melee and Ranged (Could be the same, could be different sources)

 

Other sources provide a +X to defence, i let these stack with a source, but only the ones it makes sense with, ie a Crystal that increases Defence wont stack with defence from armour, and a crystal in one lightsaber wont stack with defence from another lightsaber.

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As far as stacking things like Defensive and Deflection weapon qualities and defense bonus from armor, I go by Sam's original ruling and allow them to stack vs. Max's answer of you only get one or the other.  To me, it just makes more sense.

 

But yeah, there's no telling when we'll get a clarified/agreed upon answer, though I suspect we might see it in the FAQ whenever that next gets updated.

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Question about weapon qualities.  When we look at the Temple Guard Lightsaber Pike... do you need to actually have one success to access the weapon qualities such as STUN4?  I roll 1 Failure and 2 success can I still set off the 4 stun?  or must there be at least one success?  

 

2nd question:  I swing my weapon and miss BUT I have three advantages can I make my opponent drop his weapon (as per the GM screen)?

 

I had found this... "Active item qualities on weapons can only trigger on a successful attack, unless specified otherwise."

Edited by Tancradus

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Do all weapon qualities need to be activates whether they be guns or lightsabers?  

 

Do sunder/breach/burn etc on a lightsaber need to be activated?

 

Do the qualities on a gun need to be activated ie. pierce on a Merson handgun?

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Do all weapon qualities need to be activates whether they be guns or lightsabers?  

 

Do sunder/breach/burn etc on a lightsaber need to be activated?

 

Do the qualities on a gun need to be activated ie. pierce on a Merson handgun?

Some are active, some are passive. The gear chapter, before you get to the weapons and stuff, is a description of every quality, telling you how it works.

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as a rough guess i have taken this approach:

 

Some sources provide a static Defence value, i make the call that you can only benefit from a single one of these at any time for Melee and Ranged (Could be the same, could be different sources)

 

Other sources provide a +X to defence, i let these stack with a source, but only the ones it makes sense with, ie a Crystal that increases Defence wont stack with defence from armour, and a crystal in one lightsaber wont stack with defence from another lightsaber.

 

This is one part of the rules I don't really get.  I mean, let's use a generic example I'm going to make up, using fictional items:

 

You have a person using a shield, that provides +1 Defense (it's a shield, it makes you harder to hit, the "you" in this case being your squishy flesh bits). 

 

The same person is also wearing full body armor, that also provides +1 Defense.   

 

The problem I have with the "different defenses don't stack" system, is that it means a guy who is butt nekked, but holding the same type shield, is equally as hard to hit, as the guy in full armor AND the shield.    

 

Now, if the only reason they did this was "we wanted to minimize the number of dice being added, to keep things simple", ok fine, fair enough.  But it doesn't make any thematic sense that I can wrap my head around.

 

Is it maybe the logic of "these items, since they don't help you directly avoid an attack, aren't actually providing Defense, but are instead, simply giving you a huge Soak boost"  ?   I guess that would make sense, but given what the examples in the game, that actually provide Defense are, they don't seem to help you avoid being hit, they just simply make a hit not actually hurt.  For example, the Personal Deflector Shield.  It doesn't help you avoid the attack at all, by making you more nimble or anything.  It just eats the damage if you do get hit.  But it's a 2 Defense item.  So why wouldn't that stack with say...a suit of armor, that also doesn't help you avoid the attack itself, but simply eats the hit?   Again, if we just gave all of these things a soak value, and did away with Defense, fine, it would make sense.  Soak adds up, and if you have enough gear to basically eat any attacks, you don't get hurt.  But since we have the two figures, I don't see why they wouldn't stack,  other than the previously mentioned "We're keeping the numbers as low as possible" meta reason.

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as a rough guess i have taken this approach:

 

Some sources provide a static Defence value, i make the call that you can only benefit from a single one of these at any time for Melee and Ranged (Could be the same, could be different sources)

 

Other sources provide a +X to defence, i let these stack with a source, but only the ones it makes sense with, ie a Crystal that increases Defence wont stack with defence from armour, and a crystal in one lightsaber wont stack with defence from another lightsaber.

 

This is one part of the rules I don't really get.  I mean, let's use a generic example I'm going to make up, using fictional items:

 

You have a person using a shield, that provides +1 Defense (it's a shield, it makes you harder to hit, the "you" in this case being your squishy flesh bits). 

 

The same person is also wearing full body armor, that also provides +1 Defense.   

 

The problem I have with the "different defenses don't stack" system, is that it means a guy who is butt nekked, but holding the same type shield, is equally as hard to hit, as the guy in full armor AND the shield.    

 

Now, if the only reason they did this was "we wanted to minimize the number of dice being added, to keep things simple", ok fine, fair enough.  But it doesn't make any thematic sense that I can wrap my head around.

 

Is it maybe the logic of "these items, since they don't help you directly avoid an attack, aren't actually providing Defense, but are instead, simply giving you a huge Soak boost"  ?   I guess that would make sense, but given what the examples in the game, that actually provide Defense are, they don't seem to help you avoid being hit, they just simply make a hit not actually hurt.  For example, the Personal Deflector Shield.  It doesn't help you avoid the attack at all, by making you more nimble or anything.  It just eats the damage if you do get hit.  But it's a 2 Defense item.  So why wouldn't that stack with say...a suit of armor, that also doesn't help you avoid the attack itself, but simply eats the hit?   Again, if we just gave all of these things a soak value, and did away with Defense, fine, it would make sense.  Soak adds up, and if you have enough gear to basically eat any attacks, you don't get hurt.  But since we have the two figures, I don't see why they wouldn't stack,  other than the previously mentioned "We're keeping the numbers as low as possible" meta reason.

 

I would have to agree with you as we have one player who is stuck in an online video game and has meta'd his gun that the amount of dice does not make it fun for anyone else at the table.  3 Agility, 5 Ranks in Light Firearms, Merson gun, Rapid recycler... equally way too many dice when he aims twice, has accurate 2-3 don't recall but it takes away from the game.  That is for light firearms.  This can be done easier with a two handed weapon.

 

At least having the defence would counteract the guns damage.

 

Playing Starwars FFG for the combat is not the correct reason for playing Starwars.  

Edited by Tancradus

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I think the general intent is to show that the defense dice come only from the object or ability you are defending with. The talent Superior Reflexes adds +1 melee defense, and the name implies the character is somehow dodging or moving out of the way of an attacker. If you're using heavy armor to take the hit, trusting it to stop it completely, you're obviously not dodging or getting out of the way of an attacker. A force pike has Defensive, so the implication is you're using the superior length of a polearm to fend of the attacker, which also means you're not getting dodging out of their way or using your armor to eat a blow. The Lorrdian gemstone gives the user limited psychic abilities, and that allows you predict incoming attacks better.

 

I think the intention of whoever wrote the rules is you will only ever be able to do one of those things, so you obviously default to the best one at hand. I suppose if you narrate an attack as more than just a single blaster shot or sword swipe, than it can be excused that all of those things could happen at one, justifying stacking.

 

But if they change it to stacking, that means the recommended benefits of taking cover would have to be changed, or just cranked up way high, because enemies are more likely to harm a character with an attack if he's crouched behind the blast door of a ISD than he is standing in the open with his personal shield and suit of armor.

Edited by Blackbird888

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I think the general intent is to show that the defense dice come only from the object or ability you are defending with. The talent Superior Reflexes adds +1 melee defense, and the name implies the character is somehow dodging or moving out of the way of an attacker. If you're using heavy armor to take the hit, trusting it to stop it completely, you're obviously not dodging or getting out of the way of an attacker. A force pike has Defensive, so the implication is you're using the superior length of a polearm to fend of the attacker, which also means you're not getting dodging out of their way or using your armor to eat a blow. The Lorrdian gemstone gives the user limited psychic abilities, and that allows you predict incoming attacks better.

I think they SHOULD stack.  ALL cards on the table, you may be dodging and have armour.  The successful nullification of an attack from both sources counting could be explained through the storyteller.

 

That, or players have to pay for each ability on an attack with advantages, 2 for pierce etc.

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