Jyn Odan - Trick Shot Range

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Now, I understand Trick Shot can be used with her interrupts and that you count from her figure.  But what hasn't been answered is does the range follow the path to the square establishing LOS and then continue on to the target or is it the direct path between her figure and the target?

Example of shooting around a corner:

4

3

2     |

1  J |T

1  2

With the wall between them, could use Trick Shot to Shoot the Target (T) as a space is within 3 spaces to draw LOS from.  But is the range 4, following the path of that you have to establish the LOS from then from there to the target or 1 the distance between Jyn and her target.  It would seem to me to be 4.

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I believe according to the rules as written, there is nothing that requires the "counting spaces" that determines range/accuracy to follow the same route as the line-of-sight. So Trick Shot lets you establish line-of-sight from someplace else, but you'd still "count spaces" from Jyn's own position to the target, by whatever the shortest path is.

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I've always assumed that the intent with trick shot is that the attack effectively considers Jyn to be in the space she draws line of sight from (for four xp it bloody well should) but taleden is right in that RAW doesn't give an explicit means to. In the example given though Jyn has line of sight to the target (at range 2).

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Trick Shot only changes how to determine line of sight. It does not change how to determine the required accuracy, which is still the distance between the attacker and the targeted space.

Edited by a1bert

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So, you're saying that in my above example, the range would be 1?  Even with the wall between them?

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It's hard to understand your diagram, but no, I think the distance would be 2. You still can't "count spaces" directly through a wall, but you can count diagonally out and then back in around the wall, even if Trick Shot let you trace line-of-sight because by some other route.

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Hard to say from the ascii graphics. If the edge between them is a wall and the wall ends there, the required accuracy is 2, and Trick Shot is not even needed because there is Line of Sight around the wall to begin with. (See Counting Spaces and line of sight examples from the end of the Rules Reference Guide).

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Fizzgrid™ to the rescue!

[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][
J][T]   [_][_][_][J][2]
[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][
1]

OK, So the red line is the wall, the "J" is Jyn, and the "T" is the target. In the above scenario, Jyn has LOS to the target, at range 2. (Because even though the spaces are not adjacent, you can still draw LOS from the southeast corner of Jyn's space to any two corners of the target space)

In the below scenario, Jyn does not have LOS to the target, but using Trick Shot can draw LOS (from point 2 or point 3 on the range diagram), but still needs to roll 6 accuracy to hit at range 6.

[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][3]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][2][4]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][1][5]
[_][_][_][
J][T]   [_][_][_][J][6]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]

Is that what you are trying to convey?

Think of Jyn's Trick Shot as exactly that. She's bouncing a blaster bolt off a wall to hit an enemy she knows is there, even though she cant see him.

Edited by Fizz

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Fizz saves the day!

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Added stock image for more correctitude.

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On 3/10/2016 at 12:04 PM, Fizz said:

Fizzgrid™ to the rescue!

[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][
J][T]   [_][_][_][J][1]
[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][
_]

OK, So the red line is the wall, the "J" is Jyn, and the "T" is the target. In the above scenario, Jyn has LOS to the target, at range 1. (Because even though the spaces are not adjacent, you can still draw LOS from the southeast corner of Jyn's space to any two corners of the target space)

In the below scenario, Jyn does not have LOS to the target, but using Trick Shot can draw LOS (from point 2 or point 3 on the range diagram), but still needs to roll 6 accuracy to hit at range 6.

[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][3]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][2][4]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][1][5]
[_][_][_][
J][T]   [_][_][_][J][6]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]

Is that what you are trying to convey?

Think of Jyn's Trick Shot as exactly that. She's bouncing a blaster bolt off a wall to hit an enemy she knows is there, even though she cant see him.

Fizz, thanks for this. Still one thing I am not clear on.

When Jyn is drawing line of sight, is it:
(a) Target any target 3 spaces from her (even through walls) ?
(b) She can pretend she's at a different spot up to 3 spaces away and draws LOS from that point? (c) And can this point be through a wall from her?

See this set up:

[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][5]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][4][6]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][3][7]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][2][8]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][1][9]
[_][_][_][
J][T]   [_][_][_][J][T]

Scenario (a) would be that she can draw line of sight, but needs accuracy 10 to hit. She simply says the target is within 3 spaces and therefore she has line of sight.
Scenario (b) would be that she cannot draw line of sight because location 1, 2, 3 has no LOS to target.
Scenario (c) would be that she can draw line of sight from location 7, 8, or 9, because those are within 3 spaces from her. But still needs accuracy 10 to hit.

Thanks

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When Jyn uses Trick Shot, she picks one space that is within 3 spaces of her (Counting Spaces, cannot go through walls, doors, or blocking terrain) and draws line of sight from that space. The distance between Jyn and the target is determined normally from Jyn's space to the target space.

In your scenario Trick Shot doesn't allow her to attack T at all. (If the wall were one shorter, she could with 7 8 accuracy required.)

(a) the target isn't within 3 spaces due to the wall.
(b) true
(c) 7, 8, 9 are not within 3 spaces of her due to the wall.

(You need to brush up on your Counting Spaces, because it's a central concept in the game.)

Edited by a1bert

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1 hour ago, a1bert said:

(If the wall were one shorter, she could with 7 accuracy required.)

Am I miscounting?  I'm getting 8.

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1 minute ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Am I miscounting?  I'm getting 8.

True. I blame hitting the wrong key.

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On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 9:04 AM, Fizz said:

Fizzgrid™ to the rescue!

[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][
J][T]   [_][_][_][J][1]
[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][
_]

I believe this example requires accuracy 2, because you cannot count spaces through the wall between them?

[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
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][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][_
][_]   [_][_][_][_][_]
[_][_][_][
J][T]   [_][_][_][J][2]
[_][_][_][_][_]   [_][_][_][
1][_]

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But that doesn't even need Trick Shot, it's a normal attack, and because the spaces are not adjacent, they are not 1 distance. 2 accuracy is correct because their distance is 2.

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On 3/7/2016 at 7:43 PM, taleden said:

I believe according to the rules as written, there is nothing that requires the "counting spaces" that determines range/accuracy to follow the same route as the line-of-sight. So Trick Shot lets you establish line-of-sight from someplace else, but you'd still "count spaces" from Jyn's own position to the target, by whatever the shortest path is.

To enforce this there's one case in current Uscru skirmish map that you draw LoS through one of the corridors and if all doors are open you can then count space through a totally different path that is much shorter (and without LoS)...

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Sorry, i have not been online in the IA forums very much, Destiny sucked me in and got me. I made a fix denoting range needed in the first example is 2, not 1.

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On 1/9/2019 at 8:36 AM, Fizz said:

Sorry, i have not been online in the IA forums very much, Destiny sucked me in and got me. I made a fix denoting range needed in the first example is 2, not 1.

OMG it's Fizz! You're alive!

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I am! The rumors of my demise were entirely exaggerated. I blame Destiny.

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