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Matrix3301

Two cards confuse!

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1. Bran Stark
In core set, Bran have "reveal a new plot card" ability. But, In the plot phase, when I kneel bran to reveal a new card, how to deal with the previous one? the old plot card's "when revealed" ability will be still executed? If old plot card have a lasting effect, will it still affect this round?

 

2. Planning Ahead (L190)
This plot card's ability is "Skip the taxation phase this round". Then, it's just revealed this plot card's player skip, or all player skip the taxation phase in this round?

Thanks for your help.

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Guest Not In Sample

There is another recent thread about it.

When revealed effects take place immediately, cause they're the first thing that happens after the "reveal" framework. Then, all passives "on the table" take place. If noone responds, the framework closes and we have an action window.

So, you use Bran ability: you REVEAL a new plot card, applying the usual rules. When revealed effects resolve (obviously) or lasting/continous effects are active. The PREVIOUS plot card is now USED and considered in the used pile...Thus, any lasting/continous effects on it are not active anymore.

 

 

About Planning Ahead: keep in mind that there's just A SINGLE taxation phase, as per the other phases. We have a SINGLE plot phase, a SINGLE draw phase, etc...Each phase is "shared" with the oppo. Even if you alternate during Marshalling or Challengesa, you're both playing the SAME phase, passing the "active player" status among you.

So, with THIS wording, ALL PLAYERS skip the TAXATION PHASE.

If it was referred to you, you'd have read: "YOU skip the taxation phase, this round".

 

Hope that helps. gui%C3%B1o.gif

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Rex Tan said:

1. Bran Stark

In core set, Bran have "reveal a new plot card" ability. But, In the plot phase, when I kneel bran to reveal a new card, how to deal with the previous one? the old plot card's "when revealed" ability will be still executed? If old plot card have a lasting effect, will it still affect this round?

You deal with the previous one the same way you deal with the previous plot when you reveal a new plot in the normal way; it goes to the used plot pile. The "when revealed" effect of the old plot will have already resolved by that time, so it's not like you go back and undo it. If there is a set duration on that effect (for example, "when revealed, choose an opponent; until the end of the round, that opponent..."), the effect will continue to duration. But if it's a constant effect (for example, "your characters get +1 STR if it is Summer"), it goes away when the plot is moved to your used plot pile.

Rex Tan said:

2. Planning Ahead (L190)
This plot card's ability is "Skip the taxation phase this round". Then, it's just revealed this plot card's player skip, or all player skip the taxation phase in this round?

Remember that there is only one Taxation phase in the round, not one for each player. So if it is skipped for one player, it is skipped for them all. A single player cannot skip an entire phase. Either everyone skips it, or no one does. If the card were worded more like "you do not return gold to the treasury during the Taxation phase this round," then only the person revealing the plot would be affected by it.

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DB_Cooper said:

If it was referred to you, you'd have read: "YOU skip the taxation phase, this round".

Which could end up being horrible for you. Maybe I'll wait until the Taxation phase to play something like Dragon Attack or to bring Varys out of Shadows (and discard one of your Ally characters). Since you're skipping the phase and I am not, you can't play a save/cancel or Respond to anything I do.

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thanks for your help.

For the first question, cooper and ktom have a little different on lasting effect. In according to cooper's word, the lasting effect will lost when it goes to used pile, but ktom said two different situation for lasting effect. which one is correct?

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Guest Not In Sample

Ktom's more precise and right about the example he did: he talked about a When revealed effect that involve a lasting effects ("When revealed, choos a character: until the end of the turn, that character gains Deadly, Renown, Stealty and +10 STR)...

In that case, the lasting effect started and will end at the end of the turn.

 

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DB_Cooper said:

If it was referred to you, you'd have read: "YOU skip the taxation phase, this round".

It's not that simple for new players gui%C3%B1o.gif

For example: "draw a card" - it's reffered to you even though there is no "you".

Also, there is The Viper's Revenge: "The winner of each challenge may choose to have all players skip the standing phase this round.", and it doesn't help either.

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Rogue30 said:

It's not that simple for new players gui%C3%B1o.gif

It can be confusing, especially if English is not your first language. Here are some rules of thumb for AGoT convention:

1. Regardless of card type, if the declarative statement is part of a continuous effect (e.g., "skip the Taxation phase this round" or "ignore all out-of-House gold penalties"), the implied "you" of the declaration is plural. It applies to all players.

2. Regardless of card type, if the declarative statement is part of a passive or triggered effect (e.g., "at the end of the Dominance phase, draw a card" or "Challenges: Stand a character you control"), the implied "you" of the declaration is singular, applying to just the player who controls the effect (or met the play restrictions, depending on the way the card is phrased).

Rogue30 said:

Also, there is The Viper's Revenge: "The winner of each challenge may choose to have all players skip the standing phase this round.", and it doesn't help either.

Two reasons for this. First, it certainly is clearer for most people that a single player cannot skip a phase. Second, this is a passive effect. It activates, giving you the choice to skip the phase or not, when a player wins a challenge in the Epic phase. As a passive effect, if it said "the winner of each challenge may choose to skip the Standing phase this round," that would be read (by convention as well as common sense) as one-sided. So the wording needs to be different from the plot's constant effect in order to make sure the phase is skipped by both players.

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ktom said:

1. Regardless of card type, if the declarative statement is part of a continuous effect (e.g., "skip the Taxation phase this round" or "ignore all out-of-House gold penalties"), the implied "you" of the declaration is plural. It applies to all players.

So, Treaty with the Isles "Ignore the out of House gold penalty on all HG cards." applies to all players? Interesting.

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Well, no. To add to the confusion, Agendas tend to be the exceptions to this rule of thumb. (Notice I did call them rules of thumb, not rules.) Constant effects on Agendas are always read from the point of view of the controller with declarative statements applying only to that player. This is because Agendas, as defined in the basic rules, specifically modify House cards. As such, they are not considered to act primarily on the game environment as a whole, the way plots, characters or locations do.

So the Treaty Agendas (and Kings of Summer, for that matter) only apply to the person playing them.

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ktom said:

 

You deal with the previous one the same way you deal with the previous plot when you reveal a new plot in the normal way; it goes to the used plot pile. The "when revealed" effect of the old plot will have already resolved by that time, so it's not like you go back and undo it. If there is a set duration on that effect (for example, "when revealed, choose an opponent; until the end of the round, that opponent..."), the effect will continue to duration. But if it's a constant effect (for example, "your characters get +1 STR if it is Summer"), it goes away when the plot is moved to your used plot pile.

Ktom, as you said. if the plot's description is "until the end of the round," , the effect will be continued. But I checked lots of plot cards, there are " this round". for example, "When revealed, if you have more than one opponent, choose an opponent. You and that opponent cannot declare military challenges against one another this round." Is this will be continued?

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ktom said:

 

It can be confusing, especially if English is not your first language. Here are some rules of thumb for AGoT convention:

1. Regardless of card type, if the declarative statement is part of a continuous effect (e.g., "skip the Taxation phase this round" or "ignore all out-of-House gold penalties"), the implied "you" of the declaration is plural. It applies to all players.

2. Regardless of card type, if the declarative statement is part of a passive or triggered effect (e.g., "at the end of the Dominance phase, draw a card" or "Challenges: Stand a character you control"), the implied "you" of the declaration is singular, applying to just the player who controls the effect (or met the play restrictions, depending on the way the card is phrased).

This is one thing in the game I still get tripped up on at times I have to admit. A lot of times it's just a matter of re-reading the card and noting something you missed the first time. Like perhaps the small easily overlooked word 'to' making something a cost or whatever. But anyway...to throw some more confusion on this thread lol, in a prior post similar to this topic you said "So, unless an effect says it only affects your cards or your opponent's cards, it affects everything. But when you are dealing with costs, you can only use your own cards." How does that tie in?

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Stalkingwolf said:

But anyway...to throw some more confusion on this thread lol, in a prior post similar to this topic you said "So, unless an effect says it only affects your cards or your opponent's cards, it affects everything. But when you are dealing with costs, you can only use your own cards." How does that tie in?

It doesn't. The information in this thread refers to passive and/or constant effects. The information in that other thread refer to the effects (and costs) of triggered effects/abilities. The difference in the types of effect act as the primary differentiation and clarification.

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