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Marcus102

Battleship Rules

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So, I've got another question; at the risk of saying "tell me your whole campaign?" what is the overall intention of this group? You have, in my observation, a group of soldiers from a long time ago, at least somewhat new to this time frame, flying around on an ancient-tech filled, fleet flagship, alone, accompanied by some questionable Marines of apparently significant number. Now, unless 1+ of your players are among those Astartes, I'd like to just exclude them from whatever I'm saying; they could, quite easily, get sent off to some other errand, all die, turn on the players, lots of things. Your Captain, though, and his crew, what do they intend to do? For some hypotheticals, I could see them saying "well, we're unknowing of now, and have very little to go on, or make by with; let's go find the AdMech, and get some info", hoping that they have 10,000 years of information, stored in their impeccable data caches, to fill you in. They could find some, and maybe parlay limited access to their vessel, filled with 10,000 year old devices that still work, and the AdMech could pay them in some repairs and history (if you keep them from just steam-rolling you out a ship you might not have the resources to maintain), but then, they have a massive ship, with massive expenses, and little money to fund it, nor any other craft to defnd/support them, as a battleship would usually require, even in the Navy. What sort of stuff will they do, juggling drawing attention to what they have, with attention to what they don't, and...yep, what is their overall objective? Do they want to help the Imperium, in some way? Find about about, and then break Undred-undred Teef!? Become the next Winterscale, and just swim in money, and power? Make the Expanse a Sector? Even looking past the ship, the Space Marines, and whatnot, I'm not sure what end goal you/they hope to accomplish, whether it demands such a ship, or not. I ask because, as I've wrote a story about my silly RT, I've come to learn that, running a dungeon ruin, or two, is fun and fine, and stealing from Lure of the Expanse, Edge of the Abyss, and the Warpstorm Trilogy gave me an excuse to flesh it out, but other than flying through space, wooing women, and occasionally making some money at a rate most Rogue Traders would consider "bad priorities", even I must admit, his story, and that of his dynasty, is a bit weak, apart from several "episodes" he has taken part in, and later repelling the Tau from incurring into the Expanse. What are his (dynasty's) goals in the Koronus Expanse? i don't always really know.

 

I don't even want to just look like I'm beating you over the head with your ship; I'm just curious about some of what you plan to have them be doing with it. It can be good to have some story ready to go, before you sit down to pen it, and then come up short, sort of like I have, from time to time, with Qel-Drake and Co. They've got a nice, pimped cruiser, in my opinion, if not maybe really optimized for cheese, and several quite competent specialists, "a person for every role", and I've made them to have taken part in some interesting stuff, but other than sating my desire to put to paper some stray ideas, well... Hopefully, you might have some better luck on that front, so it doesn't just appear as a group starting with a pimped battleship (might never need a "better ship", unless an escort), Space Marine allies, all the ancient munitions a ship like that would carry (plasma weapons, melta weapons, power weapons, and ammo/resources), and whatever else they might have had to otherwise rack up PF to get, or role-play to acquire. I'm not just trying to point a finger; just hopefully help to make it all make a bit more sense, maybe both for you, and those of us who read it, and maybe jumped the gun as to where it was leading, or saw a ship even 100+ PF Winterscale couldn't afford, with his, and 2,000+ years worth of prior Rogue Traders' considerable efforts. Okay, I'm done preaching, and babbling. Sorry about that. ;)

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Why do you even think that the Battleship is the best thing, that the can lay their hands on?

Think of Dark Sovereign, powerfull,agile,stealth warship!!!

 

And why on a Golden Throne you want to START your campaign in the 41K?

Your PCs do not belong here.

Start the campaign IN THE MIDDLE OF HORUS HERESY.

 

Remember how Lorn Orpheus was send from Terra to scout the Pale Stars.

Send your group in the middle of nowhere, let them do some heroic deeds, let them fail horribly few times, let them taste some personal tragedies...

They can save a group of Blackshields/Shattered Legion (some loyal Thousand Son? loyal Word Bearer? Night Lord? Alpha Legionnaire? what an amazing role playing opportunity).

Flesh out as many marines as you can and show some differences between cunning and unorthodox RT crew and Astartes. Let them save the day when regular Astartes way of doing things is not nearly enough.

 

Wanna SuperSnowflakeDeathstarShip...let them capture it.

Play the battle in a way that:

1) leave their ship badly damaged,maybe even crippled

2) through stellar hazards and/or battle damage destroy most of offensive capability of enemy ship

3) board it

 

Now with every piece on your chessboard right in place, give them a mission.

Save a planet, assasinate a Primarch something grand that can save billions of lives,change the course of this war...and throw them in the 41 millenium.

Can you feel it, You ROB them of their DESTINY They should be FURIOUS!

And then go with part 2 of your campaign like nothing happened  :D

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Few things.

1) they learn about the last 10,000 years from the astartes

2) the astartes are blackshields

3) of course it is the best ship they can have, it can out shoot and outrun an Eldar cruiser without the need for escorts

4) seriously, if I unpower the port/starboard lances and the torpedoes then I have a speed 14, 4 void shield ship with a 24 range dorsal macrobattery and 8 total strength in launchbays.

5) the objectives are in no particular order; get the ship in full working order, help humanity wherever the can, establish a independent stellar realm (with or without xenos members), visit a few deathworlds so that Captain Ironsides can use wrangling to get himself a flying mount

 

Yes I realize the ridiculousness of a dreadnought using a mount, flying or not

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This is boooooooring.

You want to give your PCs power to conquest not only worlds, but sectors yet you give them no purpose.

With all that power you will let them loose to simply goofing around?!

 

The are not only threat to anyone but also to themselves.

Everybody will try to kill them and they will have every reason to do that.

Starting with all those Blackshields. Why do they even acknowledge orders from  someone like your PCs.

They will became target for every traitor,demon manipulator,xeno,and all authorities and organisations of the imperium.

 

With great power comes even greater responsibility.

 

Your campaign have powerfull ship, best possible troops,wealth and ancient knowledge.

But it lacks PURPOSE.

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4) seriously, if I unpower the port/starboard lances and the torpedoes then I have a speed 14, 4 void shield ship with a 24 range dorsal macrobattery and 8 total strength in launchbays.

 

What rule are you basing this off? Because in the book unpowering anything does not improve your speed. Freeing up excess power is not going to magically make your drive tubes pump more plasma than they can by themselves and the ship's superstructure isn't going to survive maneuvers faster than what its hull can take, which means that Eldar Cruiser is going to run circles around it.

 

Also why are you referring to it as "your" ship and "I" can do this and that with it. Are you playing the game or your players, because currently I'm a little confused.

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4) seriously, if I unpower the port/starboard lances and the torpedoes then I have a speed 14, 4 void shield ship with a 24 range dorsal macrobattery and 8 total strength in launchbays.

 

What rule are you basing this off? Because in the book unpowering anything does not improve your speed. Freeing up excess power is not going to magically make your drive tubes pump more plasma than they can by themselves and the ship's superstructure isn't going to survive maneuvers faster than what its hull can take, which means that Eldar Cruiser is going to run circles around it.

 

Also why are you referring to it as "your" ship and "I" can do this and that with it. Are you playing the game or your players, because currently I'm a little confused.

 

Into the Storm Pg 161 Energistic Conversion Matrix, I thought that if a frigate does it at a rat of 3:1 and a cruiser does it a t a rate of 5:1 than a battleship could do it at 7:1

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Let the group play the game as they like it. Why is everyone hating it? Yes, it's completely unorthodox, yes it has heretical traits within, yes it appears to be full of shananigins (some really big).... But truly what RT game isn't full of all this? I haven't seen a post yet from the OP asking for advice on the games setting, and everyone is attacking it with him defending those choices. He simply asked for advice on Battleship stats. Yes, we all disagree with someone on here from time to time, but should we great all new members with such animosity in a setting that is not set in stone? There is nothing wrong with giving constructive advice, but applying it in a civil and cordial fashion is highly encouragable to the later.

With all that said, what you just mentioned Marcus102 is a house rule. If you are the GM, then that is your call to make (hopefully with input from your players). If you are not the GM, discuss it with him/her at the earliest convienience.

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Into the Storm Pg 161 Energistic Conversion Matrix, I thought that if a frigate does it at a rate of 3:1 and a cruiser does it at a rate of 5:1 than a battleship could do it at 7:1

If you are going to quote rules then do so in their entirety, or house-rule them completely. The end of that entry states that a ship's speed value cannot be increased by more than 5 with the component. This means that your Battleship's base speed, another point of contention as its house-ruled itself, of 3 or 4 could be increased to 9 at most, which would cost you 35 Power by your own rule. Seeing as how a Battleship would only have a total Power of around 110 +/-10 that is a massive investment.

Since you're dead set on this fast Battleship idea, then why not just go for the Invincible-Class at that point and say its a unique design from the time of the Crusade designed for raw speed.

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I completely forgot about the max speed increase, so yeah max speed is nine. Anything to do with battleships is house-ruled since they don't have any official hulls. I am using first person pronouns because unless it would specifically apply to only certain players it doesn't really matter who I am talking about. The reason that I started this thread was so that I wouldn't be making a hull from scratch and could get some input into what "realistic" stats for a battleship hull would be.

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Ok, but isn't it a little bit OP?

 

They could find that super ship somewhere in the Koronus.

Why mixing in time travel, space marines of shady provenance and a ton of additional "social" problems?

 

As I see it, as long as those things don't play a MAJOR role in your campaign the are irrelevant.

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I feel so stupid I didn't notice this earlier, probably should not block signatures from now on... man if you're going to make a game based on a 1d4chan creation then don't bother asking for actual rules.

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I feel so stupid I didn't notice this earlier, probably should not block signatures from now on... man if you're going to make a game based on a 1d4chan creation then don't bother asking for actual rules.

You got it the other way around.

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Not too slightly off topic.  Anyone else notice the passage in the 'RT Epoch Koronus' FFG provided which states: "A disproportionate number of vessels suffer incursions by warp entities during transit, and many ships—such as the ancient and justly famous battleship Duchess Iolanthe, long a cornerstone of the Winterscale fleet—are lost to the malice of the warp."  Oddly enough, this is listed as occurring in 397.M41, of which it also states Winterscale was founded in 188-274.M41.  So I guess it's not so odd that a RT group has a battleship.

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Suppose it might've been a battlecruiser, and they typoed, or maybe the Winterscales once did, and we are to assume that they don't, currently. I doubt I'll ever view it as weird, and would certainly want one, but I'd also, personally, argue that the need for one is weak, as a Rogue Trader; you would need not only the resources for her, but her escorts, in food, fuel, ammo, and people, and while other ships are good for myriad tasks, and certain ship upgrades can alleviate some narrow purpose flaws, a warship is a warship, even if re-purposed, so if you don't plan to found your wealth on simply crushing enemies, rather than finances, routes, and who you know, this warship's warship on crack (that's ANY battleship!) is just a wasteful expense on overkill, and if you did happen to still lose, which is certainly possible, the cost, to your wealth, and your reputation, would be astronomical.

 

I want one, but mostly just to say "Look at me! See what I have!" The actual advantages? They don't sell me on the expense.

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I'm pretty sure that the Haarlock Dynasty had at least one battleship before, y'know, they killed themselves. I think it's mentioned in that flashback Haarlock Dynasty fleet battle scene in Dead Stars.

 

 

 

That being said, battleships are big, fancy ships. You really only need one if you're either going up against somebody with their own battleship or you want to make an impression on somebody without a battleship of their own ... or just to say that you have one for the prestige.

 

 

A modified battleship - they're certainly big enough for all kinds of modifications and customizations without significantly impairing their combat power - would also make one meaningful flagship/homeship for a Dynasty that wants to be a more fully fleet-based Dynasty, rather than one that has a "home system".

A battleship, assuming proper escorts, is also probably about as safe or safer than a series of estates on a planet somewhere.

 

 

That being said ... if a Dynasty acquired a battleship in the past, they're likely to take good care of it and hold on to it. Admittedly, the most likely sources for a Dynasty's battleship would be recovered as salvage and rebuilt for the Dynasty, a very long and expensive Dynasty investment project, or, your ancestor hit the Warrant jackpot, and his/her Warrant came with a Battleship for some reason - probably because they were highly connected and wanted the Warrant, this would be as an older Warrant, possibly a Reward Warrant (maybe they were a Imperial Navy Captain of a Battleship and got to keep their command when they got the Warrant, this would be extremely rare, though, as Battlefleet wants to keep its ships) and/or they have a "Warlord"-type Warrant, and the enemy the Warrant tasked them to oppose was one that required a Battleship. I suppose it's also possible that the Dynasty got super-lucky and somehow acquired and restored a battleship that was forgotten about and/or the victim of clerical-error in a Reserve Fleet or scrapyard.

 

Having a battleship means your Dynasty is quite old, and doubtless has many enemies, and those who would seek to steal or destroy the battleship. It's also possible, even likely, that elements within the Imperium (and its enemies) would want to acquire the Battleship for their own use/purposes through various means. If there's a conflict, the Navy's likely to have your Dynasty and its battleship at the top of its list for drawing on non-Navy assets to support operations. An Inquisitor might want to borrow your battleship for transporting his/her entourage and forces. Pirates will want to steal your Dynasty's battleship if they can and use it themselves; more or less the same applies to Chaos warbands/warlords.

 

 

It's as much a source of conflict as it can be useful. It is, after all, a massive hammer - need to make a trade deal? Having a battleship in orbit during negotiations is a good way to have a strong starting position. Dealing with people who have a sometimes unreliable track record for keeping their word? Having a battleship is a good way to keep people from crossing you and making you unhappy with them.

 

 

Most Dynasties probably don't have a battleship, almost none would have multiple battleships, and few would have a significant interest in having a battleship, although I'd expect grand cruisers to be reasonably common, battlecruisers would also be fairly rare, but pretty much every Dynasty would have (or would have lost) a cruiser or light cruiser.

 

 

Edit: Also, with the RAW system .... battleships are likely to be even more underwhelming than cruisers are.

Edited by javcs

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In Book of Judgement we could find mention that Corsair-Captain Zanatov have one.

Now he anchor his Battleship over Landunder and is choking the life out of the planet.

So...maybe someone should denounce that bastard :>

Edited by Rauko

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Somebody should assassinate that asshat. Although, he might be being used by an Istvaanist Inquisitor. Or some AdMech faction that wants Subrique Hive, or rather, the archeotechnological innards.

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Somebody should denounce him.

With a hard proof or heresy, xenos collaboration or other heinous crime (cause I'm pretty sure that he is up to neck deep in some serious criminal sh*t) there should be a perfectly legal way of laying hands on most of his assets-first of all his ship, which conveniently is within arms reach.

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I've said before that I find this game concept fascinating! Although I'd handle the specifics a little differently. Consider this: 

 

The HMS Darklight, Under the command of Lord Admiral Ironsides fights a series of HIGHLY successful engagements out on the northern Periphery in furtherance of the Great crusade. Finally, with Munitions and consumables running low and in needing some minor repairs, Admiral Ironsides orders his task force to make for the nearest Imperial port. Unfortunately for him, The Chaos gods have just begun meddling with the Warp in support of the Horus Heresy and the Darklight is drawn into a Warp 'anomaly' (If that sounds worrisome, you are on the right track! :o ) The great ship lies becalmed in the warp for 10000 years but the crew only "feels" a year of that due to some strange Warp type effects. Finally, With life support and fuel dwindling to critical levels, the Master Navigator reports that he has managed to pierce the storm and has detected a system close enough to reach! With great Jubilation, The Darklight emerges from the warp in the Koronus expanse! They have no idea that the Horus Heresy even happened and will certainly not accept the word of some preening wannabe planetary noble! The Emperor is essentially dead? Horus rebelled? There's an entire religion devoted to the Emperor who was himself an atheist? What exactly have you been smoking? :huh:

 

Of course, the rest of the Darklight's task force was either lost to the warp or emerged some 10,000 years ago to spread the legends of the doomed Battleship.

 

You have the following assets on board your Ship:

 

*Your command crew (With lord Ironsides essentially taking the role of the Rogue Trader even though he doesn't have a Warrant yet!). No one may play a Missionary since they did not exist when the ship left port.

 

* A partial compliment of Fighters, Bombers, and assault boats onboard (Gm's choice but I would treat each one as though they had been scattered in combat and determine what remained using the rules in Battlefleet Koronus.)

 

* A single Battle company of Legionaires (Roughly 100 Astartes) from one of the original founding legions. Their equipment is dated but in pristine condition! Of course, they too have been on campaign with the ship so the availability of ammunition and supplies will be limited.

 

* Various shuttlecraft and support vehicles as appropriate to such a vessel.

 

* A cargo hold full of "Treasure" (Essentially, trophies taken from various engagements during their deployment. At the time they would have been considered "Tribute" to be given to the Emperor or his representatives but now represent a near priceless trove of ancient Xenos tech, knowledge, charts of far flung systems etc.All you would have to do is convince the Captain to actually sell it!)

 

Playing the game:

 

Players should be aware that when the Darklight left port the Imperium had sort of a Gothic "Star Trek" type of feel. This Strange dystopian universe should be more than a little uncomfortable to them! 

 

The Space marines are what remains of a Legion company. As such, they will be mostly veteran (Deathwatch level) Marines that are not lightly trifled with. As with any Astartes, These leionaires do not "take orders" from lord Ironsides but their officers are mostly willing to cooperate as they have been fighting together for some time!

 

What legion do the Astartes come from? The Evil GM in me would almost insist that they are from one of the Traitor legions but if so, there are some things the GM must keep in mind: These are NOT traitors! The Horus Heresy has not yet happened for them and NO ONE has questioned their honor yet! (And I wouldn't want to be the first one to do it!) These Marines, regardless of Legion, would view the loss of the Emperor AND Horus as a great tragedy! (Especially if the legionnaires were Lunar Wolves!)

 

The Captain should have an Influence score determined as per DH2 rather than the standard profit factor. He is in all likelihood of Noble birth (Most naval officers in 40k are!) so his influence shouldn't be TOO bad!

 

Upkeep: The Darklight emerges from the warp at a critical shortage of supplies and short on munitions as well! Thus, until restocked, every time a ship's weapon is used in a battle or a unit of Space Marines is deployed, roll upkeep on the weapon or unit. If said roll fails than the ship has used up whatever supplies/ammunition or whatever that it requires and it may not be used again until this is resolved.

 

While some supplies can be gotten in the Expanse others will be harder to come by!

 

This setup gives the Players their Battleship but will require extensive Role-playing while they try to reintegrate into the current Imperial Era. It is also highly likely that as soon as peaceful contact can be arranged, Lord Hax himself would provide Captain Ironsides with a Warrant in an attempt to buy some sort of loyalty from him!

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Radwraith dude, don't bother putting this much thought into this concept. We're talking about a 4chan inspired campaign featuring a Contemptor Dreadnought that uses flying mounts.

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Quite a Mary Sue...

 

I'm afraid that with so much power they would not roleplay at all. There is no one who could punish them so they will do whatever they want. Kill, maim, burn and so forth.

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Quite a Mary Sue...

 

I'm afraid that with so much power they would not roleplay at all. There is no one who could punish them so they will do whatever they want. Kill, maim, burn and so forth.

If the ship were fully supplied this might be true. But the upkeep rules make constant fighting not an option. Besides, I would only run this game with a group I knew were Role players rather than roll players. 

 

As to Sk0ni's comment: I said the game concept was interesting but I wouldn't want it to turn into cheese or Mary Sue. I wrote what I did in the hopes that maybe someone would see it as a more serious approach to the same campaign.

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