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Math for a focus/TL concussion is slightly higher than a TL-proton torpedo. High-ps aces who charge into Blount are turning the game over to a single roll of the dice. If they don't kill him they will die every time, most of them to the second missile. That leaves 3 more missiles and 6 Z's to deal with the rest of the ace's list.

The 4-dice punches are even a threat late-game against aces. I'm not a slouch with Corran, but after testing I will only run him post-wave 8 with Biggs and advanced sensors. Anything else is a near-guaranteed loss to the z-swarm. Burning down 1 scout and arcing/ranging/bumping 1 and tanking the other isn't nearly as hard as trying to hunt down a z while 3 more slowly line up a concussion kill-box behind you.

 

 

Yeah, Focus/TL concussion needs more than two blanks in order to not end up with 4 hits.   With Proton, there are a few more combinations.

 

Interesting point on Corran Horn (and I don't disagree for a lot of aces life is going to get better, though I do think Jumpmasters will have other tools to deal with them, too).  I was thinking that BIggs, and especially Biggs with R4-D6 is going to be a staple of rebel lists.  He essentially wastes all those extra dice that they can throw and modify. 

Edited by AlexW

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Concussion missiles are quite a bit better than torpedoes

 

Concussion missiles are directly comparable to proton torpedoes.  Same price, both spend a TL to fire.  Concussion missiles change a blank to a hit, proton torpedoes change a focus to a crit.  Both are 4 dice, range 2-3.  I would argue that in a vacuum proton torpedoes are absolutely better. You have identical odds of rolling a focus or a blank, so unmodified getting a free crit > getting a free hit.  If you have other modifiers, it depends on the ship and what modifiers you have.  A blount swarm will have focus (if they haven't spend it on defense), so they get to change a blank to a hit, then all focuses to hits.  A scout with deadeye and R4 will spend the focus to attack, then have a TL to reroll dice.  1 focus becomes a crit.  Both presumably have guidance chips to change another blank to a hit (or a focus beyond the first for scout).  Either are highly likely to have 4 hits, but the torpedoes are more likely to have at least 1 crit.

And scouts vs blount swarm, you'll probably kill at least 1 Z95 before it gets to fire due to higher PS, possibly more depending on rolls, since a scout could potentially 1-shot a Z with 4 hits if the z blanks out (OR 1 evade and a direct hit gets through on the crit from torpedoes).  Meanwhile, the Zs need at least 3 missiles to kill a scout (unless the scout rolls 0 evades AND a direct hit gets through, or 2 direct hits if 2 evades are rolled).

In a match between the two the scouts will probably win due to multiple ps-kills. But against other lists the 5 Z's being able to more reliably get 4 hits makes them a bigger threat to aces. I've played against both lists quite a few times. The z-swarm is significantly more deadly against single-ace or double-ace lists. If these kinds of lists drive aces out of the meta the scouts will probably be better.
 

Haven't played agianst the z-swarm, but how is it more able to get 4 hits more reliably?    Also, against high ps aces the z-swarm is marginally more vulnerable since if they managed to down blount bfeore he gets tracers off, it makes it way harder to get off your ordnance AND you'll be shooting it unmodified if you do.  The scouts are self-sufficient.

Math for a focus/TL concussion is slightly higher than a TL-proton torpedo. High-ps aces who charge into Blount are turning the game over to a single roll of the dice. If they don't kill him they will die every time, most of them to the second missile. That leaves 3 more missiles and 6 Z's to deal with the rest of the ace's list.

The 4-dice punches are even a threat late-game against aces. I'm not a slouch with Corran, but after testing I will only run him post-wave 8 with Biggs and advanced sensors. Anything else is a near-guaranteed loss to the z-swarm. Burning down 1 scout and arcing/ranging/bumping 1 and tanking the other isn't nearly as hard as trying to hunt down a z while 3 more slowly line up a concussion kill-box behind you.

 

This suggests mostly that the aces that will live will be those that are really good at arc-dodging. Soontir Fel as been dancing out of stressbot arcs for some time now; slipping past Blount's is not much different... but Corran is likely to be breaking a sweat.

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Math for a focus/TL concussion is slightly higher than a TL-proton torpedo. High-ps aces who charge into Blount are turning the game over to a single roll of the dice. If they don't kill him they will die every time, most of them to the second missile. That leaves 3 more missiles and 6 Z's to deal with the rest of the ace's list.

The 4-dice punches are even a threat late-game against aces. I'm not a slouch with Corran, but after testing I will only run him post-wave 8 with Biggs and advanced sensors. Anything else is a near-guaranteed loss to the z-swarm. Burning down 1 scout and arcing/ranging/bumping 1 and tanking the other isn't nearly as hard as trying to hunt down a z while 3 more slowly line up a concussion kill-box behind you.

Yeah, Focus/TL concussion needs more than two blanks in order to not end up with 4 hits. With Proton, there are a few more combinations.

Interesting point on Corran Horn (and I don't disagree for a lot of aces life is going to get better, though I do think Jumpmasters will have other tools to deal with them, too). I was thinking that BIggs, and especially Biggs with R4-D6 is going to be a staple of rebel lists. He essentially wastes all those extra dice that they can throw and modify.

Corran Biggs Stresshog can hold its own, but you need to be really wary about late-game 2concussion slams. Edited by TasteTheRainbow

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I'm excited to try this, but my first scoutxperiment is going to be Expose + K4 + Unhinged x3

 

Won't have the ungodly accuracy of the u-boats, but you can fly in every direction like a complete psychopath and spend the game accidentally arc-dodging stuff

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Basically if you have a focus to spend on the attack then concussion missiles are better.

But if you have a TL to spend on the attack, concussions and protons math the same, but since protons give a crit, they come out on top.

You can compensate some of the Proton Torpedoes' disadvantage by adding Weapons Guidance.

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Basically if you have a focus to spend on the attack then concussion missiles are better.

But if you have a TL to spend on the attack, concussions and protons math the same, but since protons give a crit, they come out on top.

You can compensate some of the Proton Torpedoes' disadvantage by adding Weapons Guidance.
That's limited to the T-70 for now...

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Basically if you have a focus to spend on the attack then concussion missiles are better.But if you have a TL to spend on the attack, concussions and protons math the same, but since protons give a crit, they come out on top.

You can compensate some of the Proton Torpedoes' disadvantage by adding Weapons Guidance.
That's limited to the T-70 for now...
Yes? The T-70 has a torpedo slot. It's an excellent torpedo carrier, I think. Biggest downside is that there is a lot of competition for the modification slot.

How about...Ello Asty with R5-X3, Weapons Guidance and Proton Torpedoes.

Edit: and Guidance Chips!

Edited by Lingula

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