AckAckAckbar 33 Posted March 1, 2016 There's something of a divergence when it comes to this, but I did ask officially some time ago (because of my Mk. II conversions). On the pure technical side, Dras is right: no modification of any components beyond paint scheme, no changing base sizes is spelled out in particular. When I asked about store championships, Sullust, standard tournaments, the response for conversions was “Yeah, that should be fine as it's left up to the TO's discretion. Just clear it before the start.” I'm paraphrasing, but I can always dig up the actual reply. Still it falls perfectly in line with: “The head judge is the final authority on any component’s eligibility in the tournament. If a component is ruled ineligible and the player cannot locate a replacement for it, that player is disqualified from the tournament. “ So this is as illegal as this is as illegal as this in the case of a premiere event. As is taking the tail of an MK II and flipping it around. But the 1-2 fighter thing isn't as cut and dried so long as they are FFG made things. So the 1-2 fighters -say, as named squadrons for easy identification- is as interesting as question as if you may include 1 TIE advanced and 2 TIE Ln to represent Vader. All of which consist of the base components with no additional third party proxy. Common Sense shall never reign supreme so long as people are around to rule-lawyer it into the ground with clauses to benefit themselves Still, It is an issue that can come up. Just clear it ahead of time and you're golden. What am I missing? Why are these ships illegal? I only see a paintjob. Were some other modifications done? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AckAckAckbar 33 Posted March 1, 2016 The god aweful whale ship assault frigate is the ugliest ship I have seen. It doesn't fit in with any other SW model. I refuse to play it because I hate it so much. If I could put an MC30 on the AF stand I would do that. But that would just cause confusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lyraeus 4,759 Posted March 1, 2016 The god aweful whale ship assault frigate is the ugliest ship I have seen. It doesn't fit in with any other SW model. I refuse to play it because I hate it so much. If I could put an MC30 on the AF stand I would do that. But that would just cause confusion. It grows on you. . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lyraeus 4,759 Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) There's something of a divergence when it comes to this, but I did ask officially some time ago (because of my Mk. II conversions). On the pure technical side, Dras is right: no modification of any components beyond paint scheme, no changing base sizes is spelled out in particular. When I asked about store championships, Sullust, standard tournaments, the response for conversions was “Yeah, that should be fine as it's left up to the TO's discretion. Just clear it before the start.” I'm paraphrasing, but I can always dig up the actual reply. Still it falls perfectly in line with: “The head judge is the final authority on any component’s eligibility in the tournament. If a component is ruled ineligible and the player cannot locate a replacement for it, that player is disqualified from the tournament. “ So this is as illegal as this is as illegal as this in the case of a premiere event. As is taking the tail of an MK II and flipping it around. But the 1-2 fighter thing isn't as cut and dried so long as they are FFG made things. So the 1-2 fighters -say, as named squadrons for easy identification- is as interesting as question as if you may include 1 TIE advanced and 2 TIE Ln to represent Vader. All of which consist of the base components with no additional third party proxy. Common Sense shall never reign supreme so long as people are around to rule-lawyer it into the ground with clauses to benefit themselves Still, It is an issue that can come up. Just clear it ahead of time and you're golden. What am I missing? Why are these ships illegal? I only see a paintjob. Were some other modifications done? The MC30 has a modified command structure. The MC80 is a Mels Miniature Winged MC80 Liberty class. I think the VSD is missing its command antenna Edited March 1, 2016 by Lyraeus 1 Vykes reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vykes 1,927 Posted March 1, 2016 Ly-ly, you're getting the 'Where's Waldo' award for today. Yep, spot on MC30C has one tiny thing added, the MC80 looks right but it's Mel's, and the VSD is missing one tiny bit. I've been to a few events with the first two and it's never been an issue, but I do keep a back up model for the MC80 in particular just in case. I've worked on 5 Assault Frigates now and each one has gone under the knife. They are hidious, I 'ates 'em. But part of this trying to find a balance between identifying aesthetic conversion vs. proxy, in which proxy is a somewhat loaded word. After all, it's one thing authorized to represent or take the place of another; so any conversion is still a proxy for a 'legal model' as such. Is the line '3rd party'? Based on base component parts? There's no 'guidelines' for it, which might be contractual with Disney. Beyond my rambling, there i probably a place where the line can be drawn, but that line may vary depending on events and conditions. That's why we have the TO as a judge. As to the 'only played with bases', The Golden Rulebook had a clause that defined exactly what a ship was and included all the normal components (base, shield dials, flight stem, ship model, token). But the base and token is all that's really needed to make the mechanics of the game function. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lyraeus 4,759 Posted March 1, 2016 I am a US Navy Imagery Intelligence veteran. My job was finding Waldo. . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AckAckAckbar 33 Posted March 1, 2016 As I understand it the main reasons proxies are not allowed in tourneys is: 1. You have to buy the models to support the people who made the awesome game in the first place. Bringing another company's model is just not right. 2. To avoid confusion.If I brought a ship that was clearly a FFG purchased model and made small adjustments to it for aesthetic reasons it would be ridiculous to not allow it in a tourney. 1 mikemcmann reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AckAckAckbar 33 Posted March 1, 2016 The god aweful whale ship assault frigate is the ugliest ship I have seen. It doesn't fit in with any other SW model. I refuse to play it because I hate it so much. If I could put an MC30 on the AF stand I would do that. But that would just cause confusion. It grows on you. . . Nope, it doesn't. I am pretty sure Jar Jar designed it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lyraeus 4,759 Posted March 1, 2016 The god aweful whale ship assault frigate is the ugliest ship I have seen. It doesn't fit in with any other SW model. I refuse to play it because I hate it so much. If I could put an MC30 on the AF stand I would do that. But that would just cause confusion.It grows on you. . . Nope, it doesn't. I am pretty sure Jar Jar designed it.They grew on me. I like them a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reegsk 742 Posted March 2, 2016 I get you're talking about the AFs, but WTF is up with that chainmail penguin? Is that an MC80? And the slightly-winged Mon Cal will probably be fine until FFG released a winged one. Then if it's "not winged enough" it could get confusing, but we'll see. As it stands now, there's really only one thing it could be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lyraeus 4,759 Posted March 2, 2016 I get you're talking about the AFs, but WTF is up with that chainmail penguin? Is that an MC80? And the slightly-winged Mon Cal will probably be fine until FFG released a winged one. Then if it's "not winged enough" it could get confusing, but we'll see. As it stands now, there's really only one thing it could be. His name is Ted, he is my mascot. This picture was during the early age of Wave 1 so well before wave 2. 2 VanorDM and Smuggler reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smuggler 556 Posted March 2, 2016 Ted looks like he can tank like an MC80. What kind of armament does he sport? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DerErlkoenig 975 Posted March 2, 2016 Ted looks like he can tank like an MC80. What kind of armament does he sport? You can't see it, but he wields the Trident of Fish Command. He absolutely never goes hungry. 1 VanorDM reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lyraeus 4,759 Posted March 2, 2016 Ted looks like he can tank like an MC80. What kind of armament does he sport? You can't see it, but he wields the Trident of Fish Command. He absolutely never goes hungry. Well the Mon Calamari worship him like a God and sacrifice their Imperial prisoners to him. He wields impervious armor so he just smashes into everything and watch it crunch 2 DerErlkoenig and VanorDM reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanorDM 11,599 Posted March 2, 2016 If I brought a ship that was clearly a FFG purchased model and made small adjustments to it for aesthetic reasons it would be ridiculous to not allow it in a tourney. The problem is... 'small adjustment' is really in the eyes of the beholder. What you may consider to be a small adjustment someone else may not. The 3 pictures up a bit of the MC-30, MC-80 and VSD for example... I can't imagine many people having an issue with any of them. But it's not up to me to decide what someone else considers acceptable and what isn't. If you sit across from someone and they tell you that they won't play if you use a winged MC-80 instead of the official one, what are you going to do? Your options are really to try and change his mind, use a different ship, or not play. If it's a tournament, then you not only have the other person who can say something but the TO can as well. So best advice is, while no one may mind, always have the correct official model with you to be safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Englishpete 1,379 Posted March 2, 2016 Just bring an actual, unltered model with you if you are model swapping or converting. Last year and the year before at worlds there were heavily modified x-wing ships being flown without issue. 1 Lyraeus reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwi Rat 538 Posted March 3, 2016 So what would a TO say to this??? Its a Neb-B merged with a MC30, all of the components is FFG. 2 Green Knight and JgzMan reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DerErlkoenig 975 Posted March 3, 2016 So what would a TO say to this??? Its a Neb-B merged with a MC30, all of the components is FFG. Aww crap, Neb front arc, MC30 side arcs (shields included) and two of every defense token except for Contain? All for the average price of the two?! AHHHHHH! 1 Maturin reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drasnighta 26,832 Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) . Edited March 3, 2016 by Drasnighta Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JgzMan 401 Posted March 8, 2016 So what would a TO say to this??? Its a Neb-B merged with a MC30, all of the components is FFG. I would ask what kind of godless heathen produced this unholy abomination, and wave an Elder Sign at you until you departed. 1 ianediger reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianediger 1,346 Posted March 9, 2016 So what would a TO say to this??? Its a Neb-B merged with a MC30, all of the components is FFG. I would ask what kind of godless heathen produced this unholy abomination, and wave an Elder Sign at you until you departed. Well, you see, when a mommy Neb-b and a daddy Neb-b are going through a rough patch, sometimes mommy hangs out with the postman MC30. 2 Kiwi Rat and JgzMan reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
