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Archangelspiv

Tractor Beam!

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I have done some searching for an answer on this, but haven't found anything definitive. More due to my searching skills I surmise. 

 

I have a few questions.

 

1) When the Tractor Beam moves a small ship into an asteroid, does the small ship take damage immediately? Or when it moves in it's phase?

 

2) Can you use the tractor beam to barrel roll small ships off the playing area?

 

3) Same for Debris fields, when would the ship you move cop a stress token?

 

Even though a small ship can only be moved once a turn, Ships like the aggressor have 2 cannon slots and a 1 point investment might be better to be used rolling the ship off the field instead of shooting a HLC at it.

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Most of my understanding comes from the release articles for the Imperial Veterans and the Mist Hunter, both the packs that will include this exciting new upgrade. I am under the impression that 1) the interaction between a ship and an asteroid occurs just as it normally would. If a ship passes through or lands on an asteroid, or if it passes through or lands on it on the next turn, it rolls for damage. I would imagine that 3) the same interactions take place with debris fields. I am reasonably certain it has been stated that 2) No, you may not force a ship off the board with a tractor beam.

I am looking forward to flying this....

Herd Mentality (100)

Omnicron Group Pilot (24) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Tractor Beam (1), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (24) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Tractor Beam (1), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (26) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Ion Cannon (3), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (26) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Ion Cannon (3), Tactician (2)

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I am looking forward to flying this....

Herd Mentality (100)

Omnicron Group Pilot (24) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Tractor Beam (1), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (24) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Tractor Beam (1), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (26) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Ion Cannon (3), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (26) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Ion Cannon (3), Tactician (2)

Cheers Lun, it has a lot of interesting mechanics, especially in ships that can shoot twice.

 

I want to run 

 

Rexlar Brath

Predator

TIE/D

MK II Engines

Tractor Beam

 

Howlrunner

Swarm Tactics

 

Wampa

 

2x Acadamy swarms.

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Page 14 of the TFA core rulebook:

 

"When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps..."

 

Tractor beam reference:

 

"This is not an action or a maneuver..."

 

Maneuver is the key. Overlapping only triggers the damage roll if it occurs during a maneuver, and debris tokens have a very specific timing window that the stress assignation can occur in (after the Check Pilot Stress step but before the Perform Action step), so neither damage nor stress will be assigned if you tractor a ship onto a rock.

 

(asteroids do prevent firing regardless of when you move onto them)

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No you are forgetting that not only does TB reference card say it is not a maneuver, it also states it can cause overlaps thus overriding the maneuver part of overlapping obstacles.

So you roll for damage and take full effect of the obstacle.

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I have done some searching for an answer on this, but haven't found anything definitive. More due to my searching skills I surmise. 

 

I have a few questions.

 

1) When the Tractor Beam moves a small ship into an asteroid, does the small ship take damage immediately? Or when it moves in it's phase?

 

2) Can you use the tractor beam to barrel roll small ships off the playing area?

 

3) Same for Debris fields, when would the ship you move cop a stress token?

 

Even though a small ship can only be moved once a turn, Ships like the aggressor have 2 cannon slots and a 1 point investment might be better to be used rolling the ship off the field instead of shooting a HLC at it.

1: Not clear yet.

 

2: Not totally clear but most likely no, both barrel roll and boost were changed to stop this from happening and tbeam references the BR and boost rules and only specifically changes the 'can't overlap obstacles' bit.

 

3: Not clear yet.

 

Personally, I'm assuming that you don't take the effects of the obstacle until the following round, and only then if your template overlaps it, but that if you were BRed onto an asteroid before shooting, you wouldn't get to shoot.  But that's not official rules, that's what I'm expecting them to be.

 

I just hope they have an FAQ update ready to drop on release day because I'm going to be wanting to play these in tourneys pretty shortly after release...

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I am looking forward to flying this....

Herd Mentality (100)

Omnicron Group Pilot (24) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Tractor Beam (1), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (24) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Tractor Beam (1), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (26) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Ion Cannon (3), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (26) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Ion Cannon (3), Tactician (2)

 

If you run into a big ship based list, you're gonna have a bad time :P

Edited by Elavion

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I am looking forward to flying this....

Herd Mentality (100)

Omnicron Group Pilot (24) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Tractor Beam (1), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (24) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Tractor Beam (1), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (26) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Ion Cannon (3), Tactician (2)

Omnicron Group Pilot (26) - Lambda-Class Shuttle

Ion Cannon (3), Tactician (2)

 

If you run into a big ship based list, you're gonna have a bad time :P

 

DEATH ON A STICK OUT THERE BRAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

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So is the consensus that the defender would NOT roll for damage when landing on an asteroid from a tractor beam? You'd just be setting him up for the next turn to do it to himself? Similar to how you CANNOT fly him off the board, but can point him at it giving him no choice the following turn.

I recognize that my herd mentality list won't be the most competitive, but I will have a blast flying it! I'm actually more concerned about high Ps Aces than I am large ships. That many red dice combined with all the stress/control should make quick work of low agility large ships and shut down action-relient evading shenanigans (in looking at you, dash and Han) but I'm more concerned about Poe/soontir floating around behind me after the initial engagement.

Edited by lunimus

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Page 14 of the TFA core rulebook:

 

"When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps..."

 

Tractor beam reference:

 

"This is not an action or a maneuver..."

 

Maneuver is the key. Overlapping only triggers the damage roll if it occurs during a maneuver, and debris tokens have a very specific timing window that the stress assignation can occur in (after the Check Pilot Stress step but before the Perform Action step), so neither damage nor stress will be assigned if you tractor a ship onto a rock.

 

(asteroids do prevent firing regardless of when you move onto them)

 

Agreed.  This is still a dangling question that will have to be addressed with a FAQ update or something of the sort

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Page 14 of the TFA core rulebook:

 

"When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps..."

 

Tractor beam reference:

 

"This is not an action or a maneuver..."

 

Maneuver is the key. Overlapping only triggers the damage roll if it occurs during a maneuver, and debris tokens have a very specific timing window that the stress assignation can occur in (after the Check Pilot Stress step but before the Perform Action step), so neither damage nor stress will be assigned if you tractor a ship onto a rock.

 

(asteroids do prevent firing regardless of when you move onto them)

by this logic there is no reason to have a TB on any ship.. 

the concept is to slam a ship into an asteroid and if you do it right they don't shoot, and maybe take damage, then if you have done it right, they run over it again because you set them at the back of it.

 

this is not a difficult concept here, why does everyone want to pick things apart.. it's simple, straight forward ideas, and we don't need to complicate things.. 

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Page 14 of the TFA core rulebook:

 

"When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps..."

 

Tractor beam reference:

 

"This is not an action or a maneuver..."

 

Maneuver is the key. Overlapping only triggers the damage roll if it occurs during a maneuver, and debris tokens have a very specific timing window that the stress assignation can occur in (after the Check Pilot Stress step but before the Perform Action step), so neither damage nor stress will be assigned if you tractor a ship onto a rock.

 

(asteroids do prevent firing regardless of when you move onto them)

by this logic there is no reason to have a TB on any ship.. 

the concept is to slam a ship into an asteroid and if you do it right they don't shoot, and maybe take damage, then if you have done it right, they run over it again because you set them at the back of it.

 

this is not a difficult concept here, why does everyone want to pick things apart.. it's simple, straight forward ideas, and we don't need to complicate things.. 

 

 

The reason people are complicating it is they are correct, with the rules as written.  I fully expect to get an FAQ that says that ships take the damage from asteroids, but currently, as the rules are written, that is not the case.  But I also disagree that it removes the utility of Tractor Beam. Moving a ship against its will is a supremely powerful ability.  You can make it hit a rock, you can deny it an attack (either by overlapping an asteroid or just boosting/rolling it so it can't shoot, like a reverse arc dodge) you can set it up to become blocked next turn, make it fly through debris and then make him cry with Ion Cannons.  All of these are possible WITHOUT making the damage a possibility.  And you also reduce their agility, which is no small potatoes.

 

Like I said, I fully expect it to work the way you say, but the way the cards are currently written, without an FAQ entry, it does not.

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So is the consensus that the defender would NOT roll for damage when landing on an asteroid from a tractor beam? You'd just be setting him up for the next turn to do it to himself? Similar to how you CANNOT fly him off the board, but can point him at it giving him no choice the following turn.

There is no consensus at this point, there are only equally-unreliable opinions.

 

It's certain that if he ends on an asteroid and moves off it the following turn and the template goes over the asteroid, it would cause damage as normal.

 

It's not clear yet whether it would also cause damage/stress when he's moved ONTO it.  And whatever anyone says, there is no consensus on this point.

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It's enough, in my opinion, that the possibility of taking damage the next round if dumped on a rock. I think it's far more powerful to move the ship into the path that crosses multiple arcs in the next turn or two rather than hoping for a 50% chance at Rock damage. The reduced ability is also much stronger with spam/swarm lists against 2-3 ship lists.

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So is the consensus that the defender would NOT roll for damage when landing on an asteroid from a tractor beam? You'd just be setting him up for the next turn to do it to himself? Similar to how you CANNOT fly him off the board, but can point him at it giving him no choice the following turn.

There is no consensus at this point, there are only equally-unreliable opinions.

 

It's certain that if he ends on an asteroid and moves off it the following turn and the template goes over the asteroid, it would cause damage as normal.

 

It's not clear yet whether it would also cause damage/stress when he's moved ONTO it.  And whatever anyone says, there is no consensus on this point.

By the rules you need a manouver for the damage and or stress and being tractor beamed is not a manouver. It's pretty **** clear.

Unless ffg FAQs it the other way it's case closed.

To quote augustineS from above.

Page 14 of the TFA core rulebook:

 

"When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps..."

 

Tractor beam reference:

 

"This is not an action or a maneuver..."

 

Maneuver is the key. Overlapping only triggers the damage roll if it occurs during a maneuver, and debris tokens have a very specific timing window that the stress assignation can occur in (after the Check Pilot Stress step but before the Perform Action step), so neither damage nor stress will be assigned if you tractor a ship onto a rock.

 

(asteroids do prevent firing regardless of when you move onto them)

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It's enough, in my opinion, that the possibility of taking damage the next round if dumped on a rock. I think it's far more powerful to move the ship into the path that crosses multiple arcs in the next turn or two rather than hoping for a 50% chance at Rock damage. The reduced ability is also much stronger with spam/swarm lists against 2-3 ship lists.

The powerful effect here is that a ship on a rock cant shoot, the damage is gravy. If you are lucky and can put Corran on a rock, could interrupt battle plans.

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It's probably also worth noting that IME from trying them since the full card was spoiled, the 'dropped on a rock' part of Tractor Beams is not nearly the most important part - that's the agility penalty, followed by the range, arc, and donut-hole control elements of repositioning.

 

In 5 or 6 matches testing them I don't think I dropped anyone on a rock... ever.

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it really isn't, unless you're rocking Tie/D

 

not only is it unreliable (have to hit), but it eats any potential damage you would've done (Without Tie/D)

 

the movement shenanigans make this upgrade, and they shall be glorious to behold. Fling ships such that they can't shoot you, reel ships in such that they can be shot, screw up formation abilities such as howlrunner or biggs, screw over opponent's maneuvering options next turn... The -agi is just a nice add on

Edited by ficklegreendice

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it really isn't, unless you're rocking Tie/D

 

not only is it unreliable (have to hit), but it eats any potential damage you would've done (Without Tie/D)

 

the movement shenanigans make this upgrade, and they shall be glorious to behold. Fling ships such that they can't shoot you, reel ships in such that they can be shot, screw up formation abilities such as howlrunner or biggs, screw over opponent's maneuvering options next turn... The -agi is just a nice add on

Yeah, all my testing thus far has been with TIE/D.  But even without it, it can potentially be worth using the T-beams on a Palpshuttle/miniswarm list I think.  If everything is the same PS, saccing one shot in order to make everything else better is not a huge deal.

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Most of my understanding comes from the release articles.....

 

Release/preview articles should never be considered as a rules reference for new rules.

Edited by AlexW

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