Using psychic mind control on xenos

[eltom13 34]

Hi there fellow GMs!

I have a psyker in my warband who tends to solve EVERYTHING with mind control. Last session they where facing an Ork and a Dark Eldar. He of course used his mental abilities on the xenos. I increased difficulty a little bit for the alien minds he was looking in, but apart from that i let it work as usual. I'm not sure if he should gain some insanity or even corruption points for having looked into xenos minds repeatedly.

What is your opinion? Should this even be allowed or do these powers only work on humans? How hard should it be compared to a human. Should there be insanity/corruption?

[Magnus Grendel 11,674]

Depends on what he did -  even Compel has its limits.

 

 

Yes, it should be harder (which you made it), but at the same time, I could see spending too much time inside an alien's head having negative effects.

 

I would go with Insanity, rather than corruption. The latter may occur anyway (from Psychic Phenomena) but it's Insanity that would result in starting to develop Commorite - or worse yet - Orky subconscious thought patterns.

[MijRai 196]

Yeah, I'd apply a -20 penalty base for the 'understandable' Xenos (Orks, Eldar, etc.), whereas your even more inhuman things would get into the -40 area.  

 

On top of that, repeated exposure should be causing Insanity for sure, and Corruption if the being is Corrupt.  Looking into an Ork won't Corrupt you, sure.  Looking into some kind of Chaos tainted thing should risk it (to include corrupted humans >.>).  

[eltom13 34]

Thanks for the replies!

The telepath was using Dominate to have the Ork stab himself with his blade.

[Bilateralrope 144]

If you think the player is abusing it, talk to him. Or just throw more enemies at them.

 

 

Thanks for the replies!

The telepath was using Dominate to have the Ork stab himself with his blade.

Which would give the ork the +20 bonus to resist for being a suicidal act.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Bilateralrope

[eltom13 34]

Yes I know. I did include this too, but a single Ork has a rather low Willpower ...

[Bilateralrope 144]

Yes I know. I did include this too, but a single Ork has a rather low Willpower ...

So send more Orks.

 

Or have the orders creatively misinterpreted.

 

Or have the Ork roll to stab himself. That way he can miss.

 

Or try to shoot himself. But, because of the length of the shoota, he is unable to point it at himself and still reach the trigger.

[eltom13 34]

Okay, okay  ! There are plenty of possibilities to prevent the player from abusing his mental powers, I get it. In this case I really just wanted to know whether other GMs deem it appropriate to give a higher difficulty for xenos minds and maybe some insanity points. So Thanks again for your answers.

[InquisitorAlexel 244]

It would be a case of insanity and, when the player get too much insanity (in this way or another), the mental problem he get would be something xenosish.

[Bilateralrope 144]

DH1 had a rule where if you used telepathy on a target with more than twice your current IP/CP, you had to make a WP test or gain 1d10 IP/CP. If it had both, you made two tests, one for WP, one for IP.

 

Poking around Xeno minds would generate some insanity. But less as your insanity grows. Maybe he has to make a WP test or take 1d10 - {insanity bonus} insanity points.

 

 

Though changing the rules on players mid-campaign is usually going to get them complaining. Especially if it makes one of the PCs worse.

[InquisitorAlexel 244]

 

 

Though changing the rules on players mid-campaign is usually going to get them complaining. Especially if it makes one of the PCs worse.

 

So what? The important is being clear why you do this and be consequent in the future.

 

If there is a problem to be adressed, the problem must be adressed.

[Jolly P 118]

Though changing the rules on players mid-campaign is usually going to get them complaining. Especially if it makes one of the PCs worse.

 

It depends on the rule. Sure, this one is bad for the players but it's also A) pretty cool and B) fits the themes that this player is dealing with.

 

People tend to like it when their GM's actually think about their characters and introducing a rule like this proves that you have.

 

Go to the table and spit-ball the idea with your players "Hey guys, I've been thinking about this idea...what do you think?".

[Magnus Grendel 11,674]

Agreed. A lot of players don't mind picking up psychological issues....in game at least.

[FuelDrop 3]

If you attempt psychic mental control or worse yet mind reading on a Dark Eldar... yeah, you're racking up a whole bunch of insanity. Eldar minds are alien at the best of times, but the True Kin combine this with thousands of years of unrestrained hedonism in the biggest BDSM dungeon ever conceived. 

 

I'd personally be on the side of giving someone trying this a willpower test. Success gives 1 point of insanity. Failure gives 10 insanity and the Paranoid trait, at least the first time. After that I'd say willpower or gain 1 insanity.

 

But that's just me.

 

As for orks... I'd say make a willpower test or take a point of insanity and some lingering bloodthirst. Ork minds are far less alien than those of the Eldar, particularly the true kin.

Edited March 17, 2016 by FuelDrop

[eltom13 34]

I like your idea FuelDrop, but to be fair in the specific instance described upthread the PC "only" used Dominate on the xenos. I ended up giving him 2 Insanity Points for forcing the Ork to hack his own sword first into his leg and then stick it in his belly. Although I do not consider Dominate as "real" mind-reading I dare say the psyker has to establish some sort of (in this case unhealthy) connection to the targets mind.

[FuelDrop 3]

True.

 

Given the limited nature of the link, maybe some temporary minor psychosis or something similar related to the particular xeno in question. Link to an ork, become bloodthirsty for the duration? Dark Eldar, feel sadistic while the link is up? (Heck, if you want to be really sadistic have linking to a Dark Eldar result in you feeling a bit of the hunger of Slaanesh while you're still connected. That should discourage him, particularly if you hint that it might draw the attention of she-who-thirsts if the link is maintained for too long...)

[eltom13 34]

Actually "my" acolytes think that they are working for an Hereticus inquisitor and it was their first time they met any xenos. So in game they didn't even know the names for the species only "a green-skinned brute with beady, red eyes, ape-like arms and insanely thick muscles" and a "lithe and pale xenos with pointy ears and a contemptuous stare, covered in piercings and tatoos". They have no Rank in Forbidden Lore: Xenos (yet) and also the players themselves are not overly familiar with Dark Eldar. The PCs (and also they players I think, have never heard of She-who-thirsts).

[InquisitorAlexel 244]

 

 Ork minds are far less alien than those of the Eldar, particularly the true kin.

 

 

Based on what? 

 

Aliens are aliens. They do not have the same brains, the same needs, the same cultures, the same fear, the same problem.

 

Bot are as equally alien. We must not mixt up simple and "less alien"

[FuelDrop 3]

 

 

 Ork minds are far less alien than those of the Eldar, particularly the true kin.

 

 

Based on what? 

 

Aliens are aliens. They do not have the same brains, the same needs, the same cultures, the same fear, the same problem.

 

Bot are as equally alien. We must not mixt up simple and "less alien"

 

Cannot find the references at the moment, but as I remember it orks have a brain structure somewhat similar to that of humans, but with a more pronounced "old brain", leaving them more prone to violence and poor impulse control. Eldar brains are structurally very different from humans, with multiple independent sections of the brain that act together.

 

Beyond that, there's a simple difference: Orks live for a short time due to their suicidal lifestyle. Dark Eldar have likely lived thousands of years, died and been reinvigorated several times, and are sense freaks on par with Slaanesh worshipers. Some even voluntarily give themselves over to Haemonculi to be mutilated into wracks, just because they were bored with their old lives. Even if their brains were identical to humans to begin with, after a few centuries they'll be utterly alien in ways that we can't even comprehend. Orks on the other hand have simple desires and are comparatively easy to understand.

[Commediante 75]

I always try to turn psychic mind penetrations into whole new scenes, in which psyker enters the realm of someones soul. Then I encourage player to say what his psyker does in this realm to force his enemy to his will. For example one of orks had a mind in which psyker found big spotted mushroom with old-time TV screen mounted in its side. Through that screen he would steer the actions of an ork.

[InquisitorAlexel 244]

FuelDrop, if you can find me the reference, I'm okay.

 

Otherwise, orks are orks and men are men and eldar are eldar and they are each close togher as rats, men and apes are. 

 

There can be similarities, in the end they are alien to each other.