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SpawnGarret

Heirs of Blood - tips for the heros are needed

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So, we've played the into + skytower defense. Were smashed in both, now the Archive of Arrizon is the next. But we did pretty good on searches.

So, the current setup is:

Syndrael - Knight
Defense, 1 XP saved
Heavy Cloak

Avric - Disciple
Cleansing Touch (must have to detox Leoric), 1 XP saved
Iron Spear (stun is not that important, and this one has a rather good damage output)

Jain - Wildlander
Bow Mastery
Elm Greatbow

Leoric - Runemaster
Runic Sorcery (immobilized is pretty important when you got to kill a lieutenant)
Mana Weave (obvious choice)

We also got 25 gold left

 

What would you recommend as the next skills? Anything in particular 1XP-worth for the upcoming scenario?

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Given that party and the fact that you already have the mana weave, I have to ask how exactly the OL is crushing you. I could understand defeat after close competition, but getting crushed twice in a row doesn't match with the observation you have (in my opinion) THE optimal hero/class combos possible from the base game.

When I say "how exactly," I mean is he KOing you? Are you not able to take out monsters when you need? Are you failing tests? Getting clobbered by OL cards?

Edited by Zaltyre

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We were defeated in Skytower because the overlord chose Harpies as open group, so we couldn't block the monsters (goblins have scamper, harpies have fly) and couldn't kill them before they moved off the map.

Don't know if it was a similar reason?

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Given that party and the fact that you already have the mana weave, I have to ask how exactly the OL is crushing you. I could understand defeat after close competition, but getting crushed twice in a row doesn't match with the fact that you have (in my opinion) THE optimal hero/class combos possible from the base game.

When I say "how exactly," I mean is he KOing you? Are you not able to take out monsters when you need? Are you failing tests? Getting clobbered by OL cards?

We got most of the shiny things after the last game only - we were lucky to get 3 SC during traveling (our party has a high Knowledge and we got THE card), and the shopping stage was really good. During the last scenario the only item we had was Iron spear.

 

For the intro scenario, I've started another topic. Basically, we were afraid that barghests would flee and divided our party in two - that was a mistake, we were just crushed independently.

For the skytower defense, the OL was jumping Alric between two side entrances - that kept us locking these doors, denying him to come in. But then we kept the front door (with a tunnel) open, and the guys just kept coming. We were initially unlucky to wipe the support group, and lacked blast. So we retreated to one of the choke points to be able to hold - but then we were unable to switch levers anymore and Alric came in. We weren't able to deal him even half of HP to get the shield.

 

We got a lot of KOs - just were spammed by attacks - therefore I was thinking of getting Armor of Faith + Shield Training - effectively, 2 brown dice + 1 shield per turn.

 

The cards OL got are not super-powerful in my mind, but she (my wife) used them pretty well - that was healing from the Universal deck (helped her to keep the support group alive) and get-the-number-of-monster-cards-keep-two from Magus.

We had 3 fatigue token left at the end, so I don't consider it as a close call.

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We were defeated in Skytower because the overlord chose Harpies as open group, so we couldn't block the monsters (goblins have scamper, harpies have fly) and couldn't kill them before they moved off the map.

Don't know if it was a similar reason?

She got flesh moulders as invading and sentinels as support, so I don't think it was the same thing - but yes, scamper of goblins definitely helped her. And we had few bad rolls in the end, failing to kill a goblin from 2 blows - but I think at that point that would simply get us 1 more turn (and +25 gold), not more.

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When I say "how exactly," I mean is he KOing you? Are you not able to take out monsters when you need? Are you failing tests? Getting clobbered by OL cards?

We got pretty many KOs, so defend didn't help - were just spammed by a lot of attacks.

This is why I am thinking of getting Defense Training + Armor of Faith. However, at BGG they suggest I'd rather go for Advance + Challenge + Divine Fury. What is your opinion on that?

 

After playing few standalone Shadow Rune quests, I was more concerned about big baddies - but looks like we can't dispatch many little guys effectively. We are therefore planning to get blast for runemaster after next scenario (it was not that much of a concern for the upcoming one, I think).

 

With the tests, we're pretty bad with Might and WIllpower, as you can see. But at least, poison is not that much of a concern anymore now with the Cleansing Touch.

 

As for the cards, the ones she got are not directly affecting us, so I can't say we're getting clobbered by them.

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If you're a knight, you shouldn't leave home without Advance. With Oath and Advance, the Knight can do the equivalent of 2 moves and 2 attacks with a single action if he's lucky (and half of that utility is Advance.)

 

Defense Training and Armor of Faith are both defensive, and it sounds like your issue is at least partially offensive in nature. Whether you go for Defense Training or Challenge is completely your call (and probably has a lot to do with whether you're going two-handed or sword and board.)

 

Divine Fury is quite nice, but doesn't help your spread the damage to several lesser monsters- something like Radiant Light would, but that's farther down the line.

Edited by Zaltyre

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Divine Fury is quite nice, but doesn't help your spread the damage to several lesser monsters- something like Radiant Light would, but that's farther down the line.

Potentially it does - for instance, with another hero with blast or Leoric's HF.

 

I got your opinion on knight - will get Advance right away, and will see then whether I'd like Defense Training or Challenge.

 

And what is your opinion on Armor of Faith? Is it worth it or I'd better wait for smth else down the line?

 

With runemaster, the plan is to get blast after this scenario - any opinion on that?

 

Any suggestions for the Wildlander skills? I like the First Strike the most, perhaps, but maybe you got other ideas.

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I didn't read the whole thread very closely, but imo a few of the knight skills are kind of item dependent. For instance Defense training can get quite useless if you can't purchase a good one-handed weapon.

 

Since you seem to get Blast and Radiant Light, I would say your OL will start to pull out the bigger, stronger monsters against which I guess challange is the better skill.

 

Also since your situation is kind of dire, I would try to get Radiant Light as soon as possible (maybe even right in time for the interlude), keep getting most of the search tokens and maybe you will get lucky with the treasure chest.

I think now is the right time to start to think about the "ultimates" (3XP skills), which ones are a must, which ones are worth it and which ones aren't. It's completely possible to turn around the favors in the interlude when you have 1 or 2 impactful ultimates and maybe some kind of good items on your damage dealers.

 

Also try to save up for the runic armor (or sth like that) for after the Interlude (Act I item), it's extremely good on Leoric.

Edited by DAMaz

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So we went for the Advance for Syndrael, and saved points for Avric.

OL went for a couple of traps from the Saboteur deck.

 

The first encounter was a disaster - we failed even to come close to Rolok, and ended up with no search cards, 2 heroes burning and 2 other knocked out. We thought this would be it.

 

For the next encounter OL took Sentinels, Imps and Elementals. So we sticked together, used the fire extinguisher (cleansing touch + prayer of healing) and emergency button (Avric HF) and instead of a home run decided to play medieval SWAT.

 

The OL could do literally nothing! She failed to score a single hit on Arrizon - basically, Syndrael would always Defend him and pretty much everybody around. Since only Ettins could reinforce we just dispatched all other monsters one by one. I think the best OL was able to do is knock out Syndrael. We searched every single chest and killed every single monster (except ettins last turn, of course). OL traps were pretty useless, as we were not moving much. It was such a contrast with the first encounter.

 

We found a treasure chest with Magma Blast - we'll keep it for the 1st act and avoid/postpone buying Exploding Rune. During the shopping, we fetched Chainmail, so Jain would be getting it instead of her Heavy Cloak.

 

Some mileage:

-Advance was pretty useless - used it once or twice, and it didn't matter that much

-Defense is by FAR the BEST skill for a Knight, at least, for our party. I used it every turn up to 3 or 4 times. Basically, the only way OL could hurt Leoric or Arrizon was to attack with master Sentinel and pray for a surge on Red + Blue. It also allows you to have a decent defense for the party with just one armor equipped

-Knowledge is the LEAST useful skill, at least when you play without Cursed condition from LoR. You need one guy with it, and can afford to keep it low generally. Being generally weak on Might/Willpower, as we are, hurts a lot. Knowledge was good for us once, when we got 3 ST in one traveling step

-Avric's ability is AWESOME, we've underestimated it before. If you can generate surges (as we are able to), you can heal yourself even if you can't hurt the enemy

-Heavy cloak is great even if you don't have a synergy with it. Being able to cancel +3/+2 or a condition every turn can't be overestimated. I am even hesitant to replace it with Chainmail

-+2 instead of +1 for the bow we got for Jain really matters and worth the $

-When you play SWAT, Syndrael ability really shines - she can simply recover 1 or two fatigue by surges, and then stay in place to recover the other two and be able to use Defend

-Being able to generate surges is very nice, but you have to be able to spend them (and because of Avric's ability, we are)

-It's better to get a blast or fire breath than split a party

-Nimble is pretty useless, arguably, the worst starting ability

Edited by SpawnGarret

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Advance will shine the more you use it and get used to when to time it, between oath of honor and advance you can move 7+spaces for free (assuming a speed 4 character) and get 3 attack actions.

There isnt much in the game that offers that level of action economy and in a game that is largely about action economy that is huge.

Defend largely finds itself consigned to my 2nd rate or lower picks - its not bad per say but shield slam is obscenely powerful (again, action denial is super good) and i loath to pass it up.

The defensive style is good for some quests but in my experience anything where moving is a priority it starts to fall apart quite quickly because its just not fast enough to keep pace. (Admittedly Syndraels feat offsets this wonderfully. )

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Fortunately, HoB is not that much of a race as SR. Both Archive of Arrizon and the upcoming Caladen's Crossing 2nd Encounters are by no means races. And yes, having Jain and Syndrael means you're doing great in mobility dept.

 

Defend largely finds itself consigned to my 2nd rate or lower picks - its not bad per say but shield slam is obscenely powerful (again, action denial is super good) and i loath to pass it up.

I'll disagree with that. Unless you're fighting a very specific monster (e.g., elemental or lieutenant) who can do a second valuable action while already in contact with you, it is useless. And a if you have your starting weapon (which is our case), you're are pretty short on surges - and I'd rather use it to recover a fatigue/health. I find that defense training would be a great combo with the Defense and Chainmail: Brown + Gray + Gray + guaranteed Shield. And it also combos very nicely with Leoric's ability.

Edited by SpawnGarret

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Fortunately, HoB is not that much of a race as SR. Both Archive of Arrizon and the upcoming Caladen's Crossing 2nd Encounters are by no means races. And yes, having Jain and Syndrael means you're doing great in mobility dept.

 

Defend largely finds itself consigned to my 2nd rate or lower picks - its not bad per say but shield slam is obscenely powerful (again, action denial is super good) and i loath to pass it up.

I'll disagree with that. Unless you're fighting a very specific monster (e.g., elemental or lieutenant) who can do a second valuable action while already in contact with you, it is useless. And a if you have your starting weapon (which is our case), you're are pretty short on surges - and I'd rather use it to recover a fatigue/health. I find that defense training would be a great combo with the Defense and Chainmail: Brown + Gray + Gray + guaranteed Shield. And it also combos very nicely with Leoric's ability.

You dont find stunning mobile monsters or large blocking monsters to be valuable? Descent has such a huge section of the game revolve around mobility and action use that i have always been able to find a use for it.

Yeah, monsters only get one attack on a regular turn but you can move in, stun and move away, if it is a melee monster now it has to move, if its a range monster it can attack but cant get away.

Or you can move in stun an enemy and keep it form moving twice, in a hunt a lieutenant (or specific monster) quest thats pretty dam,n sweet.

BH i have found it to have much more mileage then defend - although  suppose it depends on how squishy the rest of the team is/how much healing you can pump put.

But thats the beauty of descent, hero, class, skill and weapon combinations are always very fluid.

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