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A query on firing vehicle weapons

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Just to confirm something with other Deathwatch fans.

 

Is the number of weapon systems that a pilot or gunner fire always one? Bar "power of the machine spirit"?

 

I had always taken it as so. It does mean vehicles like the single-crewed Stormraven cannot use all of their weapons at once, unless there are secondary controls for people besides the pilot.

 

 

I had stumbled across this thread which had some interesting ideas about land raiders and inspired me to check.

 

 

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Rites of Battle p166:

"Any Attack Action a vehicle's gunner or passenger may take are the same as those listed on Table 8-1: Combat Actions."

 

This section seems to then imply that vehicle weapon rules also follow the same restrictions as foot combat rules which means the usual restrictions in that a player can only make one action with the "Attack" and/or "Concentration" subtype per round. Basically it's no different to if the user was out in the field, they just have several feet of armour extra and possibly a bigger gun. However for the pilot there is one extra clause which states:

 

"A driver may take an attack action only if he has not used his entire Action to move the vehicle."

 

 

Look at it from another perspective as well, a round is supposedly lasting around six seconds (give or take). Do you believe it is feasible for someone to be sat on a vehicle mounted weapon, fire off a full burst of ammo with decent enough accuracy to make it look like they are trying, and then quickly jump into another seat to use that gun in the same amount of time? It's probably not realistic to manage it in say six seconds short of a time loop.

 

This is of course why vehicles with lots of guns need lots of crew to fire them all and/or a decent machine spirit with the appropriate Windows Imperium updates...

Edited by Calgor Grim

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I can see an argument for a land raider firing a lot of weapons at a single target. Requires less effort on the pilot's part, but still would require a lot of high-grade automation that simply is not that common in 40k.

 

Overall, that all makes sense. Cheers.

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Also, there's a finicky rule that any and all weapons labeled as "Pilot-operated" can be fired by the pilot in a single action, although presumably using separate BS rolls for each.

 

 

Then if you've got a Machine Spirit, it can fire weapons at the BS skill it's listed as having at any target(s) designated by the pilot, I believe.

 

Mind, these aren't listed under general rules, they're listed in the vehicle descriptions themselves - I think Pilot Operated is a footnote, whereas Machine Spirit gets listed in the the individual vehicle special rules.

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I'd limit the use of Machine Spirit in my games - few small(ish) vehicles possess a Machine Spirit complicated enough to make their own decisions (the possible exception being the Land Raider), and the DW being understaffed is no reason to re-fluff how the majority of Astartes vehicles work in 40k. In case of doubt, you're always free to roll up a Servitor and wire it into any secondary weapon systems anyway, which will then use the Servitor's BS.

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I run it like Rogue Trader space combat: The PCs all can hop on a gun and shoot away if they choose, or do other things using the vehicle as the team's turn counter. It gives everyone something to do, and keeps it from spotlighting one person.

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I think that whilst most of the guns are often "Pilot operated", the clause in the actions section of "players may only take one action involving the Attack subtype" and firing any weapon counts as an attack means that the pilot would have to choose which weapon to fire. (Machine Spirit attacks generally are usually given as the special rules in the vehicle's entry and usually allow extra weapons to be fired but using the Spirit's Stats)

Plus if he's done any moving or piloting of the vehicle, he's not going to be able to fire semi or full auto due to not having a full action left. There is the whole "A character can move up their agility bonus whilst firing semi or full auto and gain penalties" idea that you could incorporate into this situation as well.

In the particular case of the storm raven though the rules don't truly represent the ship as it appears in model form. The model has a pilot and a gunner, where it is implied the gunner is the one doing all the firing while the pilot simply does the flying.

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I'd limit the use of Machine Spirit in my games - few small(ish) vehicles possess a Machine Spirit complicated enough to make their own decisions (the possible exception being the Land Raider), and the DW being understaffed is no reason to re-fluff how the majority of Astartes vehicles work in 40k. In case of doubt, you're always free to roll up a Servitor and wire it into any secondary weapon systems anyway, which will then use the Servitor's BS.

Yep, I think the only vehicles that Rites of Battle describes as having a Machine Spirit that can act in that manner are the Land Raider/variants, Thunder Hawk, and Stormraven. Maybe the Warhound scout titan - not that a Killteam is going to be driving one of them.

Everything else is either reliant on someone sitting in the gunner's seat or has a hardwired Servitor controlling it. That being said, if there's a servitor controlling it, you can't really take over for it because you're a better shot.

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Yep, I think the only vehicles that Rites of Battle describes as having a Machine Spirit that can act in that manner are the Land Raider/variants, Thunder Hawk, and Stormraven. Maybe the Warhound scout titan - not that a Killteam is going to be driving one of them.

 

Everything else is either reliant on someone sitting in the gunner's seat or has a hardwired Servitor controlling it. That being said, if there's a servitor controlling it, you can't really take over for it because you're a better shot.

 

I'd say one can remove the servitor, but there's no putting it back after that, not without the proper ministrations.

 

As for Machine Spirits - I didn't have RoB at hand, but upon checking it, you're right. It's weird though - I understand the Land Raider, it's old fluff that LRs are very sophisticated, but why the flyers? Why is their Machine Spirit more intelligent than, say, that of a Predator?

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