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Boomer_J

Will Miniature Market still be able to sell FFG merchandise?

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That's just a matter of poor government destroying business. There is nothing stopping the San Fran games shops from setting up their own online store. You want to talk about location troubles, your gonna end up talking about the damaging effect of high taxes and restrictive government, local and otherwise.

Politics ain't exactly welcome on these forums, is the impression I've got.

Is not about politics. It's a discussion of economics. For a number of reasons, prices on the Bay Area are higher for running a business. A store in St Louis competing with local stores in SF doesn't contribute to the gaming community in SF. If the store in St. Louis is hurting sales in SF or New York or the dozens of other communities around the United States alone, it's not in the long term interest of a business dependant on those communities thriving to allow that store to continue business as usual. They are actively harming the community development, which reduces the adoption and sales of the games FFG sells.

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Cali pinkos aside, I would say providing a quality product at a reasonable price is doing a **** better job supporting the community than those who's primary contribution is overpriced snacks and a meet up bulletin board. Four walls and a toilet doesn't make a community, and folks who dont buy the game dont play the game. Lower prices increases sales, if you want to talk economics, *especially when it comes to severely niche luxury items like plastic miniatures.

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Clearly, we have different views on reasonable. MSRP isn't that unreasonable. 

 

Of course, a basic understanding of economic, business, and accounting would who why the prices of the online retailers is not a sustainable model. 

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My basic understanding of economics tells me when you're dealing with *faddish luxury items* like these, sustainability is *not a concern. You get in, get your money, and get out before you end up holding the bag on a pile of inventory nobody wants anymore. Star Wars has remained popular even though the last prequel film was released over ten years ago and the original film came out almost 40 years ago. When folks move on to the next miniatures game, you dont want thousands of dollars in plastic bits tying up your capital. Sell low and sell fast, before the wave breaks and people move on.

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My basic understanding of economics tells me when you're dealing with *faddish luxury items* like these, sustainability is *not a concern. You get in, get your money, and get out before you end up holding the bag on a pile of inventory nobody wants anymore. Star Wars has remained popular even though the last prequel film was released over ten years ago and the original film came out almost 40 years ago. When folks move on to the next miniatures game, you dont want thousands of dollars in plastic bits tying up your capital. Sell low and sell fast, before the wave breaks and people move on.

 

My basic sense of economics is that if you sell all your products at a loss, you won't be in business long.

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Bob and I both buy a product from the manufacturer for $10. In one month I sell 50 units at $11 and Bob sells 1 unit for $20 dollars.

1) Who has made more money?

2) Who has created more players?

This is the simplest way I can put things. Neither of us are selling for a loss. One of us is growing the gaming community at a faster rate.

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Bob and I both buy a product from the manufacturer for $10. In one month I sell 50 units at $11 and Bob sells 1 unit for $20 dollars.

1) Who has made more money?

2) Who has created more players?

This is the simplest way I can put things. Neither of us are selling for a loss. One of us is growing the gaming community at a faster rate.

Someone buying the game and then having it sit on their shelf indefinitely because they have nowhere to play and noone to play it with doesn't really count as "growing the community". That's a story I hear all too often from people that buy the game online and then complain there's no game stores to play and there game.

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Someone buying the game and then having it sit on their shelf indefinitely because they have nowhere to play and noone to play it with doesn't really count as "growing the community". That's a story I hear all too often from people that buy the game online and then complain there's no game stores to play and there game.

This isnt 100% accurate as well. I bet more people play at home than any gameshop by quite a huge margin. You could completely remove a gameshop and this game would still thrive. People would just have to finally get over the fear of actually inviting a "stranger" over into their house. Thats the unfortunate part about it. There are too many "crazies" and there are still gamers out there that fit the stereotype of being creepy/smelly, and you dont want to be rude to people, but my wife and I dont want rude people in the house. In the end, a LGS is just a place for players to meet up. But I could easily run this game at the local Arbys/Panera/coffee shop, or again, just at my house. People just need to put forth the initiative to do it and dont be lazy. There are least several people on this board who run great events w/o owning a single LGS themselves.

~D

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Someone buying the game and then having it sit on their shelf indefinitely because they have nowhere to play and noone to play it with doesn't really count as "growing the community". That's a story I hear all too often from people that buy the game online and then complain there's no game stores to play and there game.

This isnt 100% accurate as well. I bet more people play at home than any gameshop by quite a huge margin. You could completely remove a gameshop and this game would still thrive. People would just have to finally get over the fear of actually inviting a "stranger" over into their house. Thats the unfortunate part about it. There are too many "crazies" and there are still gamers out there that fit the stereotype of being creepy/smelly, and you dont want to be rude to people, but my wife and I dont want rude people in the house. In the end, a LGS is just a place for players to meet up. But I could easily run this game at the local Arbys/Panera/coffee shop, or again, just at my house. People just need to put forth the initiative to do it and dont be lazy. There are least several people on this board who run great events w/o owning a single LGS themselves.

~D

 

This, but for slightly different reasons. I live in an area with a little less than 10 game shops and I frequent one. That one game shop I frequent also happens to have one of the best prices in the country for games ONLINE. I buy 95% of my games from them online and then go pick them up. Not one time have I ever stayed to play there and I don't believe I would ever want to do so.

If I choose a place to play I want atmosphere. I want the look of a nice coffee shop with hard wooden tables, nice lighting, a subtle scent of java and quality background music. What I do not want is white plastic tables, glaring fluorescent lighting and the smell of chinese food takeout with background music being M:tG players flicking cards back and forth. I will say, I can't think of much that would be better than playing The Grizzled in a nice cozy local coffee shop with some classic french music playing while sipping some nice milked tea.

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To answer my original question Miniature Market has The Bespin Gambit Expansion and Ally/Villain packs on preorder!!!

But do they have a price listed?  Coolstuffinc. does not... :(

Yes they have the price listed.

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To answer my original question Miniature Market has The Bespin Gambit Expansion and Ally/Villain packs on preorder!!!

But do they have a price listed?  Coolstuffinc. does not... :(
Yes they have the price listed.
AND theyre still discounted. Now theyre at about 80% of MRSP, which isnt like what some of the older sets are, but I dont know what the price on them were a year ago. But you can buy the new exp set and packs for a total of $66 (+shipping)!!

~D

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It is April 1st, and the prices of the Descent expansions/packs that I bought 2 weeks ago have now changed on Coolstuffinc.com  The 36% discounted price I got them for a couple weeks ago has now been adjusted to 24% across the board, roughly a 10% difference.  Seems like this is the effect of the merger people had been discussing.  Not necessarily a deal breaker, but certainly disappointing.

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Bob and I both buy a product from the manufacturer for $10. In one month I sell 50 units at $11 and Bob sells 1 unit for $20 dollars.

1) Who has made more money?

2) Who has created more players?

This is the simplest way I can put things. Neither of us are selling for a loss. One of us is growing the gaming community at a faster rate.

 

You've both lost money.

Bob couldn't sell his products, because you've undercut him by nearly 50%.  He will probably soon drop support for the product and similar products.

 

You've lost money, because the new expectation is that you'll have immense amounts of stock at massive discounts regardless of whether or not it's good for your bottom line.  Further, since Bob's customers are no longer having the product advertised and promoted to them, they have no reason to seek out discounted merchandise for a game not being played in their gaming groups.

So a new product comes out, and the same thing happens again, for the same reason.  And again, and again.

Pretty soon, Bob's out of business.  And because Bob was a person promoting the products you were selling to his customers, that means you have fewer sales.  Since you have fewer sales, *you* soon go out of business.

And that's what FFG and Asmodee are trying to avoid.

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Another possible solution, if Asmodee wants to support local stores, is to leave the free market largely untouched and offer a small percentage of "exclusive" products that are only available at local game stores.

This is something that the toy industry and consumer electronics industry does frequently; making a few products that are "store exclusives" to promote specific stores.

In this case, every year Asmodee could make a few expansions or even one particular core set available exclusively at local retailers (tabletop game shops) which would agree to sell those products at or very near MSRP.

The reality is that I've bought about 15 percent of my X-wing stuff from my local stores that sell items at full MSRP and I buy the remaining 85 percent of my X-wing items online where I can find discounts. But if I had to pay full MSRP for "everything" then I simply wouldn't own as many expansions in my personal kit. I'd be more like the majority of X-wing players in my local store: I'd turn into a "borrower." Borrowers are the people who show up on open play nights and sometimes even at tournaments without everything they need to play a specific list they planned on playing and just hope they can "borrow" the ships and cards they need from other players at the store.

I don't think "borrowers" help local stores any more than online competition offering discount pricing.

Building competitive lists in X-wing requires purchasing a lot of expansions unless you are willing to settle for playing one list and rarely change it ... which gets boring, fast. Not everyone has a personal budget that allows them to buy multiple copies of every expansion at full MSRP.

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Another possible solution, if Asmodee wants to support local stores, is to leave the free market largely untouched and offer a small percentage of "exclusive" products that are only available at local game stores.

This is something that the toy industry and consumer electronics industry does frequently; making a few products that are "store exclusives" to promote specific stores.

In this case, every year Asmodee could make a few expansions or even one particular core set available exclusively at local retailers (tabletop game shops) which would agree to sell those products at or very near MSRP.

The reality is that I've bought about 15 percent of my X-wing stuff from my local stores that sell items at full MSRP and I buy the remaining 85 percent of my X-wing items online where I can find discounts. But if I had to pay full MSRP for "everything" then I simply wouldn't own as many expansions in my personal kit. I'd be more like the majority of X-wing players in my local store: I'd turn into a "borrower." Borrowers are the people who show up on open play nights and sometimes even at tournaments without everything they need to play a specific list they planned on playing and just hope they can "borrow" the ships and cards they need from other players at the store.

I don't think "borrowers" help local stores any more than online competition offering discount pricing.

Building competitive lists in X-wing requires purchasing a lot of expansions unless you are willing to settle for playing one list and rarely change it ... which gets boring, fast. Not everyone has a personal budget that allows them to buy multiple copies of every expansion at full MSRP.

Or... Or... OR!!!! Maybe FFG could give a discount to the local store on the items the store stocks if they hold tournaments!  How's that?  Then the consumer isn't the one losing the money, and the stores are getting PAID for promoting the game which is what FFG really wants, right?  Part of this plan wouldn't necessarily work, because a lot of the online discount retailers... have physical stores in addition to their online sales.  But, wait, they're still bad because they sell at a discount.

Edited by tomkat364

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Store promos and tourney discounts are both great ideas. I buy my Summoner Wars stuff from the maker because of the promo cards. Even if its something silly like alternate art or acrylic tokens, I would buy where I could get the "prestige lootz"

Tourney discounts are good, but you would have to have some time of tracking, otherwise everybody runs a "tournament" where nobody shows up (and that's the plan) then ill have that sellers discount thankyouverymuch.

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Store promos aren't a good idea.

 

Look at any gaming message board the moment a retailer exclusive game / promo / item is announced to gauge the community's take on the practice, then check out eBay after the product launches and sells out at said retailer. Or maybe people here would like paying 10X MSRP for the initial run of FLGS exclusive Ally Packs like what happened during the first run of retailer exclusive amiibos, 3DSXL variants, etc.?

 

While I certainly think it's possible to do something like this "right," I don't think anyone's done that yet and I can't imagine this particular scenario being the first place that it happens.

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Store promos aren't a good idea.

 

Look at any gaming message board the moment a retailer exclusive game / promo / item is announced to gauge the community's take on the practice, then check out eBay after the product launches and sells out at said retailer. Or maybe people here would like paying 10X MSRP for the initial run of FLGS exclusive Ally Packs like what happened during the first run of retailer exclusive amiibos, 3DSXL variants, etc.?

 

While I certainly think it's possible to do something like this "right," I don't think anyone's done that yet and I can't imagine this particular scenario being the first place that it happens.

I dont think anyone here is talking about dramatically game altering promos. Cosmetic stuff. Swag. If people want to pay out the pooper for that, then God bless them, its a free country. I'm not talking about "Only 700 people in the world get a 10 point Han Solo"

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My basic understanding of economics tells me when you're dealing with *faddish luxury items* like these, sustainability is *not a concern. You get in, get your money, and get out before you end up holding the bag on a pile of inventory nobody wants anymore. Star Wars has remained popular even though the last prequel film was released over ten years ago and the original film came out almost 40 years ago. When folks move on to the next miniatures game, you dont want thousands of dollars in plastic bits tying up your capital. Sell low and sell fast, before the wave breaks and people move on.

 

My basic sense of economics is that if you sell all your products at a loss, you won't be in business long.

 

 

That's not necessarily true, but you have to have something to balance it out.  The game store near my house has tons of tables, a very small stock of inventory, all products at MSRP and about 20 drink coolers and bins full fatty snacks.  Like a movie theater, I think that is where the store makes its money.  I've talked to the owner before.  I too like to support my local stores, even though I don't play IA with strangers, just like I didn't with SWM.  I have a small group of gaming friends.  So I have bought a few ally and villain packs there, but I'm not going to, and didn't, buy the core game for $99.  I got it on Amazon for $67.  And then I got Twin Shadows too.  Frankly I just wasn't going to get into IA for $100. I think the Star Wars licensing costs hurt Star Wars branded products.  HOw much is the core game for Descent?  I've never looked.

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