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BadAsh1

Touchy topic - time limit, or "just how long is reasonable for dials???"

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Speaking as a sometimes TO...

I could see it taking that long, because when you're down to two ships, where each one ends up at really matters a great deal.

To me deciding if someone is stalling or not is going to require more than just how long. Taking 5 minutes to set 2 dials isn't unreasonable in all situations, but in some it could be 4m 45s too long...

You really have to consider a number of factors. Is the person winning or losing? What's the margin right now? How much time is left? Is MoV going to be a factor on where they place over all? Is the next move fairly obvious or not?

I mean if I got a VT or YT in a corner pointing to the center of the board, the number of moves I can reasonably make is limited, but if I'm in a E-Wing in the center of the rock garden and have targets on both sides then that's different.

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Timing your opponent's planning phases is also fairly... formal.

 

Sure, but then there's, "You had two dials of five down when I headed to the bathroom to take a long liesurely leak ... and now that I've returned, you still have two dials down."

 

You don't need a stop-watch to tell when someone is taking a long time.

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After some trials a friend and I decided that three minutes for a 100-pt squad was good. We set a timer right next to the board when we're both ready, right after conclusion of end phase. Strategy is an integral part of the game, which makes it so good, but we also have to remember that in reality pilots have only seconds to make their decisions. Not right to take forever. If the 3 minute time runs out and a player isn't ready his weakest ship suffers 1 damage. The clock goes for another 30 seconds. Same penalty applies after each successive extension, moving up with the ships.

 

I think something like a chess clock idea is a good one. Keeps the game moving along and prevents stalling. Think quick!

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"Think long, think wrong." That is kinda the strategy I use. I don't take more than about 30-45 seconds per dial. The only times I would take longer is if:

1. The board is tightly packed with ships; or

2. The game is at a critical moment (I.e. the end-game)

I try to think of it as a real dogfight. If you're in an X-Wing being chased by two TIE Fighters, you wouldn't have 5 minutes to decide what you're gonna do. You'll have at most two seconds before that TIE pilot adds you to his kill count.

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Yeah, I've been playing a 6 ship list lately and I have no problems with getting my dials down within 3 minutes when it's absolute crunch time. Generally much quicker than that though. It's unreasonable to take too long and drag the game out when the conclusion is clear.

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I was recently thrown out of my normal rather by a very slow deliberate player.

He wasn't stalling for time, it wasn't specific to our game, it's just how he is. One of the guys that travelled to our store champ with this guy had been venting about him from their game too, he is known for it in their group, as a concession this guy flies only 2 and 3 ship lists. He was a good player but analysed and reanalysed literally every dial setting. So happy he wasn't a swarm guy!

I was flying Vader miniswarm, so five ships. He had the good ole RAC Whisper list. I was regularly waiting for several minutes for him, despite me not being an electric fast setting my own dials (5 ships after all). I get that the consequences of a bad move there can be terrible but even turn one and two where you generally 90% know what your doing before the match timer even starts this was happening.

That there are people like this makes it so hard to make a call on people doing it as a tactic. Some people are just slow.

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Being "just slow" is not a viable excuse. Stalling is cheating, but just playing so slowly as to not allow the game to conclude, for whatever the reason, is unacceptable.

The game being, complicated, or the moment pivitol is not an excuse for not playing at a reasonable speed.

I absolutely agree. Even the Learn to Play book says this in the Game Overview. 

"In X-Wing, two players engage in an exciting, fast-paced dogfight in the Star Wars universe."

 

If I wanted to play a game of long deliberations each turn, I'd play chess!

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This is a tough one.  Slow playing, like porn, is something that you know it when you see it, but is very hard to write rules for.  Most of the time I am fairly quick with dials, but during pivitol points of the game I tend to take my time and think things through.  I may take a minute or two to place my dials (then re-look at them and possibly fiddle with them) but I am not intentionally slow-playing.

 

Then there is the situation where both players are tired and they sit there staring at each other for a bit until one says "Are you ready?"  "I was waiting for you."  "I was waiting for you."  We both chuckle and move on.

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This is a tough one.  Slow playing, like porn, is something that you know it when you see it, but is very hard to write rules for.  Most of the time I am fairly quick with dials, but during pivitol points of the game I tend to take my time and think things through.  I may take a minute or two to place my dials (then re-look at them and possibly fiddle with them) but I am not intentionally slow-playing.

 

Then there is the situation where both players are tired and they sit there staring at each other for a bit until one says "Are you ready?"  "I was waiting for you."  "I was waiting for you."  We both chuckle and move on.

What? Wait... there's rules for porn now??

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This is a tough one.  Slow playing, like porn, is something that you know it when you see it, but is very hard to write rules for.  Most of the time I am fairly quick with dials, but during pivitol points of the game I tend to take my time and think things through.  I may take a minute or two to place my dials (then re-look at them and possibly fiddle with them) but I am not intentionally slow-playing.

 

Then there is the situation where both players are tired and they sit there staring at each other for a bit until one says "Are you ready?"  "I was waiting for you."  "I was waiting for you."  We both chuckle and move on.

What? Wait... there's rules for porn now??

 

It stems from, I believe, was a Supreme Court decision.  I could be wrong.  Any lawyers around here?

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I think some of you guys are losing site of the issue three ships should not take over five min the first turn hence why I started timing him.  a tie swarm should take some time to move since you are flying 5 to 7 ships NOT 3 and as for a lot of options its boost barrel , focus or evade not rocket science depending on situation you find your self in  

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Heh, sorry. I'm still chuckling at the porn connection. Bravo to you sir, for making it a simile.

 

In my time as a judge for X-Wing and other games, this topic is one I've really hated to rule on. In the past, when a player called me over and suggested his opponent may be slow playing, I would verbally tell the offender to please make a play. Then I'd stay to make sure the pace kept going reasonably. I would usually use that as a "pre-warning" for the offender on the first time. If it happened again for the rest of the tournament, then an official warning would go out. If it happened again, then the hammer would come down. I don't remember seeing an official ruling from FFG however, so this has always been more of a sportsmanship call. Thus, in our store it would always come down to the TO or head judge's discretion.

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There's nothing stopping FFG from imposing a per-ship time limit. Say, 3 minutes per living ship - obviously, in scenarios where there is a 2 ship list vs. a 6 ship list, both players would just operate at the highest count list present at the board.

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I wonder: Would the Speed/Unclocked versions of Chess translate to X-Wing?

 

E.G. in the first version, you suffer a points penalty if you're the first one to take more than 3 minutes in the game, and once that happens the game is over and MOV calculated.

 

Similarly, in the second version, games play towards complete annihilation, even if the matches take days and the rounds take hours.

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