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BadAsh1

Touchy topic - time limit, or "just how long is reasonable for dials???"

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I was in a tournament today where the (respected) veteran seemed to take a REALLY long time each round to select his dials.  I can understand being careful and thinking moves ahead and all, but when it drags to 5+ minutes each time, it starts to feel excessive and/or someone is trying to draw out the clock to preserve their early point lead.

 

As I am the newbie of only a few months, what is the call here?  Live with it?  I hesitate to say anything at the risk of coming off unsporting or otherwise hostile, but you know how you just sometimes say "yeah, this is a bit excessive" in your gut?  I felt that every round after the 2nd.

 

Thanks in advance for feedback.

Edited by BadAsh1

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Lots of different views on this one. If he had 2-3 ships, then I would say that's taking a little long. But if he had a swarm (6-8 ships), then that would be about right. The whole question of taking too long to plan, and is it stalling, is really vague.

 

That being said, there are some that will just take their time in order to limit the number of rounds. It's really is a hard call to make for a player. If you have a concern, call the TO over and have a quiet word about how you think the opponent is taking too long on purpose, and let the TO make the call. At the very least, the TO should observe and decide if it's slow play or not.

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I lost a match to one guy who took forever to plan any move and it was during the time people were trying 60 minutes round tournaments - it sucked, I didn't check how much time I had left and we pretty much played at most 5 rounds.

Never again am I letting a ******** like that ruin it for me.

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There is not, and really shouldn't be, any hard and fast rule about what is a reasonable amount of time to spend in the planning phase or when making any other decision for that matter but if you suspect intentional slow play then by all means call the TO over.  This is especially true when you feel you have an overall advantage if the game plays out but your opponent currently has the edge and is trying very hard to keep it.  Now I'm all for getting a lead and then playing hard to kill if it means a win but that still means playing at a normal pace instead of trying to cut the number of rounds I'd need to run.

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It's not always intentional, so don't jump to that conclusion, but it is always unfair. At a SC on Saturday, we had an excellent player be very slow against several of us. (Including me, but that's in no way why I lost to him.) He was flying five ships. He was not stalling ... he was just seeking the perfect moves (and pretty much always finding them), and taking a long time to do it. When it was mentioned to him, it was obvious he was not doing it to stall, and he changed the behavior.

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I recently lost a game to a 'intentional' slow player which frustrated the life out of me!!!

 

A dead give away to intention is judge by the full game. Against this guy I was up by 12 points and his dials were flying down however once we swung to 8 points in his favour dials were taking FOREVER to go down (5+ mins!!), he had 4 ships to my 3 and my dials were going down within a minute, every time......

 

VERY FRUSTRATING and definitely against the whole fly casual spirit of the game!!!

 

My favourite thing about X-Wing is the spirit involved at a recent tournament I was giving advice and tips to players between games on how to improve and even gave away a Mangler cannon card to someone because he didn't have one and was flying Dash with HLC and wasn't even aware of the Mangler...

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I really don't know why FFG haven't instilled a time limit on planning. I used to play Blood Bowl and you had 4 minutes to complete EVERYTHING in your turn. And with 11 players to co-ordinate, that could be quite a squeeze.

1: it would be super hard to enforce, given that in a room full of 20 people playing 10 games, the times between dial-setting can take ten minutes or one minute, so dial-setting will almost always be out of sync.  How do you check that people have missed the time limit unless you have some sort of chess clock system which makes running tournaments much more expensive in terms of resources.  A time limit on the rest of the game would be almost impossible as play changes hands so often.

 

2: It would seem unfair to players running larger lists to me, as once the game splits up and your swarm isn't all doing the same thing any more, you now might have 3 times as many dials to consider and set as me.

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I don't think it would be all that hard. Obviously you wouldn't have a planning time limit for all the players to complete at the same time. That would be ridiculous.

It would have to be something the two players in a match up would monitor for themselves. Maybe 20-30 seconds per ship you have on the table. You wouldn't need a chess clock for each game, as most players own a watch or a phone with a clock on it.

I'd see it as a rough timing guide more than a hard and fast rule. And it would help to eliminate those turkeys that get down to one battered ship left and still stall for 5 minutes setting that one dial.

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I don't think it would be all that hard. Obviously you wouldn't have a planning time limit for all the players to complete at the same time. That would be ridiculous.

It would have to be something the two players in a match up would monitor for themselves. Maybe 20-30 seconds per ship you have on the table. You wouldn't need a chess clock for each game, as most players own a watch or a phone with a clock on it.

I'd see it as a rough timing guide more than a hard and fast rule. And it would help to eliminate those turkeys that get down to one battered ship left and still stall for 5 minutes setting that one dial.

Leaves just as much room for abuse and slow down via "clock nazi's" who will call foul to a to every time a dial goes down a second and a half late getting to's involved or wasting time tooling around setting timers. Edited by Ralgon

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It be hilariously simple for FFG to set a limit to the planning phase. All it would take is any sort of timer.

For instance you set say a 5 minute limit on each planning phase. You instruct players to set a 5 minute timer at the beginning of each planning phase. At the end of that time limit you proceed to activations, any ships without a dial assigned are treated as they would normally be.

It be very simple. What you do not do is set different time limits for each player, as that is pointless since niether player can proceed until the other is done. And you don't give extra time just because a player is running alot of ships.

You could even grant each player a one minute extension once per game.

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My opinion, the game should move along briskly. The theme and maneuvering really shine then.  If the waiting is becoming tiresome the opponent is taking too long.  I try to play quickly and I don't mind my opponent kindly prompting me to make a decision if I appear to be bogged down in thought. 

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"Oh wait I started setting my dials before we set the timer."

 

"Oh wait, did you already start the timer I wasn't ready!"

Both are non-issues.

First, why would it matter if people are already thinking about or setting dials ahead if time, that is only helping move the game along which is all putting a limit on the planning phase would do anyway. It's already expected that players likely have put some thought into next turns dials during the previous turn.

Second, we already expect players to communicate to each other particularly no to advance through phases. How is having to communicate the start of a timer any different to having to communicate that dials are set and ready for activations, or that an individual ship is done it's activation and the next one is up? If a player can't get behind a basic level of communication with thier opponent they are likely already a problem.

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Is it considered bad form to play the Star Wars Imperial March on your phone while waiting for your opponent to set his dials?

Or maybe just Vader's breathing?

Ha ha! Love it!

I usually have the soundboard app running for the pew-pews and explosions. The problem is, I use the Imperial March as my ring tone, so I wouldn't be able to tell if my phone was ringing or not. :D

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Is it considered bad form to play the Star Wars Imperial March on your phone while waiting for your opponent to set his dials?

Or maybe just Vader's breathing?

Ha ha! Love it!

I usually have the soundboard app running for the pew-pews and explosions. The problem is, I use the Imperial March as my ring tone, so I wouldn't be able to tell if my phone was ringing or not. :D

 

Better form than the Jeopardy theme

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Just need an audio file from ROTJ:

[Darth Vader steps out of his shuttle on the Death Star.]

Moff Jerjerrod: Welcome, Lord Vader. This is an unexpected pleasure. We are honored by your presence.

Darth Vader: You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I am here to put you back on schedule.

Moff Jerjerrod: I assure you, Lord Vader, my men are working as fast they can.

Darth Vader: Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them.

Moff Jerjerrod: I tell you that this station will be operational as planned.

Darth Vader: [stops and holds up his finger at Jerjerrod] The Emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.

Moff Jerjerrod: But he asks the impossible! I need more men!

Darth Vader: Then perhaps you can tell him yourself when he arrives.

Moff Jerjerrod: [alarmed] The Emperor's coming here?

Darth Vader: That is correct, Commander, and he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress.

Moff Jerjerrod: We shall double our efforts.

Darth Vader: I hope so, Commander, for your sake. The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am. [resumes walking]

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I think I'll soundboard that whole dialogue, and have it ready for my next long game.

 

I rarely take more than 10s of seconds to make my dial decisions, irrespective of amount of ships.  A quick game's a good game I always say.  I don't mind people taking longer than me, it's ok.  But I don't hesitate to let them know they're taking too long in my mind.  Just be polite about it, or call over a TO.

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thank god I'm not the only one I played against a guy at a store championship his list was vader , fel , shuttle with palpatine THREE ships it took him 5min and 48 sec I know this because after the second dial phase I started timing him.  after killing the shuttle  it took him 5 min and 20 some seconds for TWO ships it was ridicules.  I asked the T/O what constituted slow playing and I stated my case he said he was fine .   over 5 min seems a bit much to me  though.    

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