Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
pbpanchotest

Punishing One Preview!

Recommended Posts

Again bringing up the firesprays and brobots only further shows the title is overpriced. Because every ship with similar durability (or actually better) with similar hull cost less points.

Dengar has PS9 and a PWT, both of which cost points. So naturally a 3 attack PWT is going to be more expensive than ships without one. Plus you don't even have to run the title, which gives you a 2 attack PWT and PS9 at 33 points.

Or are you trying to claim that PS9 and a 3 attack PWT is only worth 7 points? If so... You're so clueless that there's no point in bothering with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Name me a ship that's as fragile as dengar with title

Firesprays and Brobots are both as fragile and they're nearly as expensive, but also lack PWT which always raises the cost of a ship.

VT-49's may have a lot more hull, but they also have zero evade dice.

And that's without taking PS9 with natural Barrel Roll into account.

Wtf seriously the firesprays aren't that competitive but let's take scum boba, he still have 10hull, same evade except gets free rerolls at range 1, his rear arc and rerolls limits the pwt advantage and he still costs 8 points less then dengar with title.

Brobots cost significantly less, have higher evade and 1 less hull and 3 atk primary. But at 8 hull the main reason people take brobots is because they are incredible hard to kill and even they are still cost much less then dengar with title.

Again bringing up the firesprays and brobots only further shows the title is overpriced. Because every ship with similar durability (or actually better) with similar hull cost less points.

 

If Dengar can get arc on his enemy, then he can attack twice in a turn while possessing maneuverability close to a Super Dash. While Super Dash only has the one crew slot to play with and has to choose between being PS9 or taking PTL, Dengar is PS9 by default, gets a crew slot and a salvaged astromech slot to play with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Manaroo can transfer enemy TLs to another ship? Sweet.

 

Could Soontir + Rage and a couple BSP with Wingman be a thing?

 

He would get 3 focuses...

Only if you can clear at least on Focus off of him before the end of the turn. He'll be chained to Yorr, EpLeader, or Wingman TIEs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you talk about how fragile or durable a ship is, do you think it's a good idea to completely ignore the role of evade dice?

Nope not at all that why Han has c3p0 or r2 which is better then 2 natural evade
Right, so now we're comparing Dengar + Punishing One at 45 points to Han + C-3PO at 49 points?

Dash has the same evade but more hull and better primary

I think we must disagree on what either "better" or "primary" means, but Dash + HLC + Outrider is48 points, and Dengar's still 45.

RAC is nearly double the hull

And has 0 Agility, which is why the Jumpmaster is on average actually more durable than the Decimator, not less.

And brobots have nearly the same hull higher evade dice and cost significantly less even without autothrusters which is a massive upgrade defensively for them.

The Punishing One has a turret primary, which makes it hard to compare the two.I think I'm done with you, at this point.
That's kinda the point but then again I'm not the one that brought up these comparisons other people did. Ships like brobots and firesprays are hard to compare but both are more durable and cost significantly less.

I am simply saying the title is overcosted at 12 points. Tel I think makes up for the cost of the title by being a great value. Dengar simply costs way to much on a 9 hull ship.

Han at base cost has the same primary turret cost 1 more then dengar and title but has 4 more hull. But Han becomes competitve once you add a defensive upgrade such as r2 or c3p0 niether of which dengar has access to. (The new scum shield bot is not good when it requires 2 actions for 1 shield.)

dash costs significantly less in comparison unless you add his title and HLC which is his competitve build in which case he has a 4atk turret and 1 more hull for 1 more point and still has access to defensive upgrades such as r2.

RAC has zero evade yes but has 7 more hull and no you are wrong he is still more durable then dengar with title and only costs 1 more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Dengar can get arc on his enemy, then he can attack twice in a turn while possessing maneuverability close to a Super Dash.

Good point, we can't forget to account for his special ability on top his stats. With PS9 and BR he shouldn't have too much trouble doing that at least some of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gonk will be pretty cool, especially as there is no limit to the number of shield tokens you can put on him.  So, start off slow and load up on shield tokens.  Use them once per round after the battle begins instead of an action.  PTL Gonk will let you get that shield in a single turn, but also stressed. 

No it won't. PtL only works off the Action Bar. You'd need to equip EI to have both Gonk Actions on the same turn.
No, he was referring to using PTL to get a normal action on the same turn you use Gonk to take one of your banked Shield tokens (Which you nab in the first two turns by slow rolling)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If Dengar can get arc on his enemy, then he can attack twice in a turn while possessing maneuverability close to a Super Dash.

Good point, we can't forget to account for his special ability on top his stats. With PS9 and BR he shouldn't have too much trouble doing that at least some of the time.

 

I'd even be tempted by Dengar with Bossk as crew, plus a torpedo and Guidance chips.

 

Go ahead. Dodge that first primary weapon attack. It'll be fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

When you talk about how fragile or durable a ship is, do you think it's a good idea to completely ignore the role of evade dice?

Nope not at all that why Han has c3p0 or r2 which is better then 2 natural evade
Right, so now we're comparing Dengar + Punishing One at 45 points to Han + C-3PO at 49 points?

Dash has the same evade but more hull and better primary

I think we must disagree on what either "better" or "primary" means, but Dash + HLC + Outrider is48 points, and Dengar's still 45.

RAC is nearly double the hull

And has 0 Agility, which is why the Jumpmaster is on average actually more durable than the Decimator, not less.

And brobots have nearly the same hull higher evade dice and cost significantly less even without autothrusters which is a massive upgrade defensively for them.

The Punishing One has a turret primary, which makes it hard to compare the two.I think I'm done with you, at this point.
That's kinda the point but then again I'm not the one that brought up these comparisons other people did. Ships like brobots and firesprays are hard to compare but both are more durable and cost significantly less.

I am simply saying the title is overcosted at 12 points. Tel I think makes up for the cost of the title by being a great value. Dengar simply costs way to much on a 9 hull ship.

Han at base cost has the same primary turret cost 1 more then dengar and title but has 4 more hull. But Han becomes competitve once you add a defensive upgrade such as r2 or c3p0 niether of which dengar has access to. (The new scum shield bot is not good when it requires 2 actions for 1 shield.)

dash costs significantly less in comparison unless you add his title and HLC which is his competitve build in which case he has a 4atk turret and 1 more hull for 1 more point and still has access to defensive upgrades such as r2.

RAC has zero evade yes but has 7 more hull and no you are wrong he is still more durable then dengar with title and only costs 1 more.

 

 

Sure it takes 2 actions for a shield for Gonk droid, but you can slow play the beginning of the game and charge up several shields to be used later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

When you talk about how fragile or durable a ship is, do you think it's a good idea to completely ignore the role of evade dice?

Nope not at all that why Han has c3p0 or r2 which is better then 2 natural evade
Right, so now we're comparing Dengar + Punishing One at 45 points to Han + C-3PO at 49 points?

Dash has the same evade but more hull and better primary

I think we must disagree on what either "better" or "primary" means, but Dash + HLC + Outrider is48 points, and Dengar's still 45.

RAC is nearly double the hull

And has 0 Agility, which is why the Jumpmaster is on average actually more durable than the Decimator, not less.

And brobots have nearly the same hull higher evade dice and cost significantly less even without autothrusters which is a massive upgrade defensively for them.

The Punishing One has a turret primary, which makes it hard to compare the two.I think I'm done with you, at this point.
That's kinda the point but then again I'm not the one that brought up these comparisons other people did. Ships like brobots and firesprays are hard to compare but both are more durable and cost significantly less.

I am simply saying the title is overcosted at 12 points. Tel I think makes up for the cost of the title by being a great value. Dengar simply costs way to much on a 9 hull ship.

Han at base cost has the same primary turret cost 1 more then dengar and title but has 4 more hull. But Han becomes competitve once you add a defensive upgrade such as r2 or c3p0 niether of which dengar has access to. (The new scum shield bot is not good when it requires 2 actions for 1 shield.)

dash costs significantly less in comparison unless you add his title and HLC which is his competitve build in which case he has a 4atk turret and 1 more hull for 1 more point and still has access to defensive upgrades such as r2.

RAC has zero evade yes but has 7 more hull and no you are wrong he is still more durable then dengar with title and only costs 1 more.

 

Sure it takes 2 actions for a shield for Gonk droid, but you can slow play the beginning of the game and charge up several shields to be used later.

Use push the limit...

 

Can't. PTL only works for actions in your action bar. You need Experimental Interface to double use Gronk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ships like brobots and firesprays are hard to compare but both are more durable and cost significantly less.

You are quite simply wrong there. Both of those cost more than Dengar without the title, a 2 attack Dengar is actually fairly decent. 12 points to bump his primary attack to 3 dice is completely fair.

Han at base cost has the same primary turret cost 1 more then dengar and title but has 4 more hull.

And one less evade dice, and a less useful special ability.

RAC has zero evade yes but has 7 more hull and no you are wrong he is still more durable then dengar with title and only costs 1 more.

No he's not, the math backs up what he said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Name me a ship that's as fragile as dengar with title

That's 47 PTs for a 3atk turret with 9 hull

Dash with title and HLC is 48pts for 4atk turret with 10hull

Han with c3p0 or r2 is 49pts for 3atk turret rerollable with 13hull

RAC by itself is 46pts with a 3atk turret with free Crits and 16hull

Brobots by itself is 36 points with 3atk non turret with 8hull.

Again there is not a single ship in game being used competitvely at all that costs nearly 50 pts and that fragile. None zilch nada. You basically have brobot level of hull without the durability of the brobots at 11 pts higher. With that few hull you need something to make the ship durable (autothrusters, regeneration, etc) or that 50 pts will never make its points back.

The title for the punishin one is overpriced by at least 2 points.

When you talk about how fragile or durable a ship is, do you think it's a good idea to completely ignore the role of evade dice?

Nope not at all that why Han has c3p0 or r2 which is better then 2 natural evade and he still has 4 more hull.

Dash has the same evade but more hull and better primary

RAC is nearly double the hull

And brobots have nearly the same hull higher evade dice and cost significantly less even without autothrusters which is a massive upgrade defensively for them.

 

I would argue that dash's primary isn't better.  Sure, he gets a 4 dice attack at range 2-3, but he can't attack at all at range 1.  The punishing one gets 4 dice at range 1 instead of having a donut hole and dengar can potentially shoot twice.  As for han, you can't compare han with upgrades to dengar with only the title.  It's not a valid comparison.  Naked han has more hull but less agility.  And dengar can take the Gonk droid and regen shields himself if you want.

The title is an upgrade however the point isn't that dengar is overpriced he is not the title is overpriced.

the 1 atk dengar gets from the primary turret is washed out by the fact HLC has no extra evade at range 3 this is ignoring the fact we are in an autothrusters heavy meta which prefers range 3.

Dengar only has the potential to shoot twice and that's with your opponent trying to avoid that. Han gets free rerolls on every atk, dash gets to ignore obstacles all the time in the new tractor beam meta. I think they are all comparable so in power so I'm not arguing about thier abilities.

I just believe 12 points makes the jump master way overpriced for a 3 atk turret ship. The only jump master that even makes the cost acceptable is tel and that's because she mitigates the cost by being an exceptional value at 12hull ship with the upgrade.

There really is no comparable ship to the cost of dengar with his title. He is just way to fragile for his cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you talk about how fragile or durable a ship is, do you think it's a good idea to completely ignore the role of evade dice?

Nope not at all that why Han has c3p0 or r2 which is better then 2 natural evade
Right, so now we're comparing Dengar + Punishing One at 45 points to Han + C-3PO at 49 points?

Dash has the same evade but more hull and better primary

I think we must disagree on what either "better" or "primary" means, but Dash + HLC + Outrider is48 points, and Dengar's still 45.

RAC is nearly double the hull

And has 0 Agility, which is why the Jumpmaster is on average actually more durable than the Decimator, not less.

And brobots have nearly the same hull higher evade dice and cost significantly less even without autothrusters which is a massive upgrade defensively for them.

The Punishing One has a turret primary, which makes it hard to compare the two.I think I'm done with you, at this point.
That's kinda the point but then again I'm not the one that brought up these comparisons other people did. Ships like brobots and firesprays are hard to compare but both are more durable and cost significantly less.

I am simply saying the title is overcosted at 12 points. Tel I think makes up for the cost of the title by being a great value. Dengar simply costs way to much on a 9 hull ship.

Han at base cost has the same primary turret cost 1 more then dengar and title but has 4 more hull. But Han becomes competitve once you add a defensive upgrade such as r2 or c3p0 niether of which dengar has access to. (The new scum shield bot is not good when it requires 2 actions for 1 shield.)

dash costs significantly less in comparison unless you add his title and HLC which is his competitve build in which case he has a 4atk turret and 1 more hull for 1 more point and still has access to defensive upgrades such as r2.

RAC has zero evade yes but has 7 more hull and no you are wrong he is still more durable then dengar with title and only costs 1 more.

 

Sure it takes 2 actions for a shield for Gonk droid, but you can slow play the beginning of the game and charge up several shields to be used later.

Use push the limit...

Can't. PTL only works for actions in your action bar. You need Experimental Interface to double use Gronk.

Ah very sharp! Didnt realize this

Edited by Plato

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just when I was starting to think Rebels might see more play by me thanks to the Ghost, Scum get some amazing options keeping them as my favourite faction.

 

Boba Fett is very thematic, and reminds me of constantly using him to assassinate Ackbar when playing Empire at War. Also means Greedo crew might see some more use, the risk/reward gets a little more reward with Boba in the YV-666 with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you talk about how fragile or durable a ship is, do you think it's a good idea to completely ignore the role of evade dice?

Nope not at all that why Han has c3p0 or r2 which is better then 2 natural evade
Right, so now we're comparing Dengar + Punishing One at 45 points to Han + C-3PO at 49 points?

Dash has the same evade but more hull and better primary

I think we must disagree on what either "better" or "primary" means, but Dash + HLC + Outrider is

48 points, and Dengar's still 45.

RAC is nearly double the hull

And has 0 Agility, which is why the Jumpmaster is on average actually more durable than the Decimator, not less.

And brobots have nearly the same hull higher evade dice and cost significantly less even without autothrusters which is a massive upgrade defensively for them.

The Punishing One has a turret primary, which makes it hard to compare the two.

I think I'm done with you, at this point.

If Dengar can get arc on his enemy, then he can attack twice in a turn while possessing maneuverability close to a Super Dash.

Good point, we can't forget to account for his special ability on top his stats. With PS9 and BR he shouldn't have too much trouble doing that at least some of the time.
And Han gets free rerolls and RAC gets free Crits and dash ignores obstacles in the new tractor beam meta. They are each great abilities and they all have similar ps values. Except dengar ability is situational at best and it might come up 1 maybe 2 times each game. I'm not arguing that dengar isn't worth his cost he is at 33points. The problem is the title is overcosted and when placed on dengar you easily see how it pales to compare to similar ships. All of which are more durable in comparison with similar offensive capabilities. I Edited by Gungo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

If Dengar can get arc on his enemy, then he can attack twice in a turn while possessing maneuverability close to a Super Dash.

Good point, we can't forget to account for his special ability on top his stats. With PS9 and BR he shouldn't have too much trouble doing that at least some of the time.

And Han gets free rerolls and RAC gets free Crits and dash ignores obstacles in the new tractor beam meta. They are each great abilities and they all have similar ps values. Except dash ability is situational at best and it might come up 1 maybe 2 times each game. I'm not arguing that dengar isn't worth his cost he is at 33points. The problem is the title is overcosted and when placed on dengar you easily see how it pales to compare to similar ships. All of which are more durable in comparison with similar offensive capabilities. I

 

 

I disagree.  I believe the title on Dengar will be worth the points.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

R5-P8, super sniper, able to hit epic ships at range 5...

 

He's not shooting anybody.  He's slicing the back-trail on their laser bolts to cause a feedback loop in their flux-banks.

 

Only sometimes he also accidentally causes a feedback loop in his own ships' flux-banks.  Dumb droid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Han gets free rerolls and RAC gets free Crits and dash ignores obstacles in the new tractor beam meta.

You should really quit when you're ahead.

Han's reroll is not that useful, because you have to reroll everything. Dash ignores Tractor beams movement anyway, because you know he's not a small ship... If you're going to make a point, make sure you actually have the facts before doing so.

RAC costs 1 more point than Dengar with the title, and has at best similar survivability and perhaps worse since it has zero evade dice.

 

All of which are more durable in comparison with similar offensive capabilities.

Again, no they don't. the YT-1300 has 12hp 1 evade vs 9hp 2 evade, and the YT-2400 has 10hp 2 evade vs 9hp 2 evade. The VT has 16hp but zero evades.

Edited by VanorDM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...