Set your sights: Can it be used twice in an activation?

[Equity 5]

"Set your sights" is causing some debate in the games I am playing. Can Loku use "Set your sights" both at the beginning of his activation and at the end of his activation by paying two strain during each timing instance? Or does the 'or' mean he can only use it once during one of those instances?

[a1bert 4,115]

I would personally interpret it as either-or (to be in-line with generic once per activation abilities), but with a cost of 2 strain I would not argue for too long against the "At the start you may, at the end you may" interpretation.

[MikeNYHC 217]

I've seen most people argue that it can be used both at the beginning and the ending of your activation. There's no suggestion of a limitation, there's no use of the word either, there's a cost that can be paid, and there are multiple timing instances. I don't think it's overpowered when used that way either, 4 strain is a lot to take on.

[Fizz 986]

I read this as "both".

 

 

Trigger(s): (Start of activation)(End of activation).

Cost: (2 strain)

Effect: (Place token)

Edited February 11, 2016 by Fizz

[BrettP 4]

Could you use Set Your Sights twice in the same time instance? In other words, can Loku take 4 strain to place 2 recon tokens at the start of his activation?

[a1bert 4,115]

No, each ability can only be triggered once per timing instance.

[tomkat364 528]

No, each ability can only be triggered once per timing instance.

Not exactly right.  This is only true of abilities that have the wording "use", which Set Your Sights does have.  

"  If an ability is “used,” it can be triggered multiple times each round, but it can only be triggered once per timing instance. For example, an ability that says, “Use while attacking to apply +1H to the attack results,” can only be triggered once during each attack."

 

Also, this is an ability, not a special action, so it can be used twice in the same round.  I agree with the interpretation that it can be used once at the start and once at the end.

[a1bert 4,115]

I think you're reading too much in the word "use".   I think the other abilities are exhaust or once per round etc. So once per timing instance should be pretty good rule of thumb for any ability. For example surge abilities do not say "use", but you can trigger each surge ability only once per attack.

 

Each once per round ability can be used only once per round. And "once per round (twice if you have two activation tokens)" abilities can be used once per round, or twice if you have two activation tokens.

 

Each "once per activation" ability can be used once per activation, possibly during your own, then again during the activation of another figure if applicable, but can not be used if there are no activations happening (like attacks from end of round effects).

Edited February 23, 2016 by a1bert

[Fizz 986]

Actually, I think the "use" here is spot on. Loku can use the ability once at the start of his activation and use it again at the end of his activation.

[tomkat364 528]

I think you're reading too much in the word "use".   I think the other abilities are exhaust or once per round etc. So once per timing instance should be pretty good rule of thumb for any ability. For example surge abilities do not say "use", but you can trigger each surge ability only once per attack.

 

Each once per round ability can be used only once per round. And "once per round (twice if you have two activation tokens)" abilities can be used once per round, or twice if you have two activation tokens.

 

Each "once per activation" ability can be used once per activation, possibly during your own, then again during the activation of another figure if applicable, but can not be used if there are no activations happening (like attacks from end of round effects).

You're mixing two different rules.

Surge specifically states : "Each surge ability can be triggered only once per attack"

As far as actions, the word 'use' is specifically quoted in the rule by FFG.  I didn't highlight the word use, they did.  That rule again is:

"If an ability is “used,” it can be triggered multiple times each round, but it can only be triggered once per timing instance. For example, an ability that says, “Use while attacking to apply +1H to the attack results,” can only be triggered once during each attack."

Set your sights is a strain ability, similar to Battle Technician for Saska.  Saska's specifically states once per round, same as Quickdraw and Precise Strike and Ambush and Havoc Shot and Close Quarters and Clear Minded and Foresigh... They can all be used more than once per round, but when they state "use", then only once per timing instance. 

Edited February 23, 2016 by tomkat364

[a1bert 4,115]

Yes, yes. Is there yet another way that we can argue about being in total agreement?

 

(I was just daring you to show me at least one ability that does not have "use" that could be used more than once from the same trigger, i.e. in the same timing instance?)

Edited February 23, 2016 by a1bert

[Equity 5]

 

No, each ability can only be triggered once per timing instance.

Not exactly right.  This is only true of abilities that have the wording "use", which Set Your Sights does have.  

"  If an ability is “used,” it can be triggered multiple times each round, but it can only be triggered once per timing instance. For example, an ability that says, “Use while attacking to apply +1H to the attack results,” can only be triggered once during each attack."

 

Also, this is an ability, not a special action, so it can be used twice in the same round.  I agree with the interpretation that it can be used once at the start and once at the end.

 

 

Are you saying abilities like Saska's Practical Solutions can be triggered more than once during a single attack? It does not contain the word use. It says "When a figure declares an attack, it may discard 1 device token to apply +1 <surge> to the attack results." 

[tomkat364 528]

 

 

No, each ability can only be triggered once per timing instance.

Not exactly right.  This is only true of abilities that have the wording "use", which Set Your Sights does have.  

"  If an ability is “used,” it can be triggered multiple times each round, but it can only be triggered once per timing instance. For example, an ability that says, “Use while attacking to apply +1H to the attack results,” can only be triggered once during each attack."

 

Also, this is an ability, not a special action, so it can be used twice in the same round.  I agree with the interpretation that it can be used once at the start and once at the end.

 

 

Are you saying abilities like Saska's Practical Solutions can be triggered more than once during a single attack? It does not contain the word use. It says "When a figure declares an attack, it may discard 1 device token to apply +1 <surge> to the attack results." 

 

I'm not sure if that was the intention of the ability or not, but there is nothing in the rules which states otherwise, so I would say yes, you could apply multiple surges with multiple tokens.  The wording of energy shield specifies that it can be used multiple times during the same attack, which is confusing because it implies that Practical Solutions should not be usable more than once, but again, the rules appear to allow it.  It would also appear to allow multiple dice to be rerolled during attribute tests so long as all device tokens are discarded at the same time, i.e. discard three and reroll three,  not discard and reroll, then discard and reroll, then discard and reroll.

Personally, I would rule against it as I think that was not the intention, and my group and I are okay with inferring the designer's intentions.

[Fizz 986]

Are you saying abilities like Saska's Practical Solutions can be triggered more than once during a single attack? It does not contain the word use. It says "When a figure declares an attack, it may discard 1 device token to apply +1 <surge> to the attack results."

I would say no. The trigger here is "when a figure declares an attack", it may "discard 1 token". This means no more than 1 per attack, otherwise it would say "may discard X device token(s) to apply +X (surges)..." or "may discard any number of device tokens. For each device token discarded, apply +1 (surge)..."

 

However, if another attack is declared, the trigger condition is met and the figure may spend 1 again.

 

Same goes for attribute tests and rerolls.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Fizz

[Cremate 539]

Exactly and FFG has even confirmed this specifically in an answer on Saska's devices, that it falls under the general limitation of abilities, that they can only be triggered once when applicable.

[edcy 5]

 Can Rancor feed twice in a round ? (before and end of activation)?

[Cremate 539]

As written, yes.

[Serox 29]

16 hours ago, edcy said:

 Can Rancor feed twice in a round ? (before and end of activation)?

Feed: At the start or end of your activation, you may choose another friendly figure within 2 spaces. Recover (damage) equal to its health minus the (damage) it has suffered. That figure is defeated.

As it reads, you may only feed once per round.

 

If they intended for Rancor to feed twice, they would have written it "At the start  and  end of your activation, you may.... "

[kamenhanji 7]

But  "Set your sights"  also reads  "at the start or end of your activation"

And so far we agree it can be trigger twice in an activation. 

Then why can't  FEED  trigger twice ? 

Edited August 22, 2017 by kamenhanji

[neosmagus 623]

28 minutes ago, kamenhanji said:

But  "Set your sights"  also reads  "at the start or end of your activation"

And so far we agree it can be trigger twice in an activation. 

Then why can't  FEED  trigger twice ? 

Based on Set your Sights, Feed can definitely be used both at the stage and end of the activation.  It also comes at a hefty cost of having to spend the threat on figures and being able to move them into position.

[Majushi 1,127]

The or is giving two optional trigger windows, not precluding the other window if the first was used.

Feed and Set your Sights can indeed be triggered in either or both windows.

[a1bert 4,115]

Yes, for the reasons listed above. Or is not exclusive unless explicitly specified (or has an additional limitations like: limit once per round).

(It was not intended, but that's what we have.)