Cloaking & Maneuver Dials

[AncientestOne 10]

Played in a tournament Saturday and went up against a cloaked ship for the first time.  I noticed that my opponent didn't reveal his dial for the Phantom ( with Whisper) when he moved the ship.  When I asked him about it, he said that he did not have to reveal a dial until he de-cloaked.  Not being at all familiar with the cloak rules, I accepted his explanation.  Since then though, I have picked up a Phantom and looked at the rules card & FAQ for cloaking and cannot find any reference to what my opponent claimed.  Am I missing something, or did my opponent pull a fast one?

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

He was DEFINITELY pulling a fast one.

[bkoran 185]

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/5/5/cloaked-in-battle/

 

 

 

To be able to attack, a cloaked ship must first decloak. Decloaking isn’t an action or maneuver, but it comes with its own set of rules. A ship may only decloak immediately before revealing its maneuver dial. Then, as it decloaks it must either perform a barrel roll that uses the straight “2” maneuver template or execute a straight “2” maneuver.

 

I suspect the player interpreted this to mean you never reveal your maneuver dial at all, until you decloak. Rather than recognize that it's simply a matter of timing, saying that you cannot decloak after you've already revealed your dial that turn. However, it does somewhat make sense. If I show you my dial every time, you can basically follow along and judge where I am, which takes away the point of being invisible.

[Parravon 5,217]

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/5/5/cloaked-in-battle/

 

To be able to attack, a cloaked ship must first decloak. Decloaking isn’t an action or maneuver, but it comes with its own set of rules. A ship may only decloak immediately before revealing its maneuver dial. Then, as it decloaks it must either perform a barrel roll that uses the straight “2” maneuver template or execute a straight “2” maneuver.

 

I suspect the player interpreted this to mean you never reveal your maneuver dial at all, until you decloak. Rather than recognize that it's simply a matter of timing, saying that you cannot decloak after you've already revealed your dial that turn. However, it does somewhat make sense. If I show you my dial every time, you can basically follow along and judge where I am, which takes away the point of being invisible.

It's changed a bit since the Phantom was first released.

At the start of the Activation phase, after players have resolved all other abilities that trigger at the start of the Activation phase, each ship may spend a cloak token to decloak, starting with the ship with the lowest pilot skill (using initiative to break ties). When a ship decloaks, it must choose one of the following effects:

• Perform a barrel roll using the [str-2] maneuver template.

• Perform a boost using the [str-2] maneuver template.

Decloaking is not an action or a maneuver, and a ship can decloak while it has a stress token.

A ship cannot decloak if it would overlap another ship or an obstacle token, or if the maneuver template would overlap an obstacle token.

After all decloaking has been resolved, the Activation phase continues as normal.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Parravon

[Darth Emphatic 148]

Craziness. Definitely confusing the rules.

[Parravon 5,217]

Craziness. Definitely confusing the rules.

Or as Dracon points out, pulling a fast one. I find it a little hard to believe someone would think that they don't need to use a dial as long as they're cloaked.

[Darth Emphatic 148]

Craziness. Definitely confusing the rules.

Or as Dracon points out, pulling a fast one. I find it a little hard to believe someone would think that they don't need to use a dial as long as they're cloaked.

Ya, trying to,interpret things that way is totally sketchy

[StevenO 2,996]

You don't reveal a dial to move via uncloaking but performing a maneuver would still require showing a dial.

 

If your opponent was playing as he never needed to show you what was on the Phantom's dial while the ship is cloaked that could lead to all kinds of potential abuse.  If he doesn't reveal his dial then how would you know if he is performing the maneuver he set during the planning stage?  For that matter how do you even know if the maneuver performed is even legal when you don't get see the dial?

[Parravon 5,217]

You don't reveal a dial to move via uncloaking but performing a maneuver would still require showing a dial.

 

If your opponent was playing as he never needed to show you what was on the Phantom's dial while the ship is cloaked that could lead to all kinds of potential abuse.  If he doesn't reveal his dial then how would you know if he is performing the maneuver he set during the planning stage?  For that matter how do you even know if the maneuver performed is even legal when you don't get see the dial?

Exactly!

[Darth Emphatic 148]

I cant even see qhat the argument there is from his perspective unless in his head the Phabtom's dial is not public domain and by doing so the assumption is you dont know what moves the Phantom can potentially make except for the ones made after a decloak. otherwise, youd be moving in order either way and youd know the menuever as soon as he performed it, so what does it matter if he flips or doesnt flip his dial, except if he is cheating and changing the move at his own discretion when it is the Phantoms turn.

[Parravon 5,217]

Well the OP was told he didn't have to reveal the dial if he was still cloaked. Which makes me wonder if he actually planned anything at all and was just choosing a maneuver after seeing what the OP did.

 

Either way, it's dodgy as hell.

[WWHSD 9,273]

This is why there are judges. If someone is explaining something that sounds sketchy to you call over a TO.

[grimdraken 20]

Yep.  Spend the token, make the mandatory decloak maneuver, THEN immediately reveal your dial.

[USCGrad90 884]

I think there needs to be clarification from the OP.

1) Is the movement being referred to actually him decloaking? This would be either a 2 straight or 2 barrel roll, which occurs before anyone reveals a dial.

OR

2) Did he take movements when his turn to reveal his dial came - while the ship was cloaked and not show his dial? This would include any bank, turn, or straight maneuver available to the Phantom.

I can see where a decloak "move" might be confused for actual ship movement to someone not familiar with it.

[DailyRich 3,346]

Sounds like a case of a player just assuming what something should do based on its name rather than actually reading the rules.  "I'm cloaked!  You don't get to see where I'm going!"

 

Or, as has been said, a player pulling a fast one hoping his opponent assumes that's what cloaking does.  Because thematically, it makes sense; you shouldn't get to see where a cloaked ship is moving.  But that's obviously NOT how the ability works.

[bkoran 185]

I usually wander on the RPG side of the forums, but I'm interested in X-Wing.

 

When you cloak your Phantom, do you leave the piece on the board for everyone to see, and just place the Cloak token next to it to remind them they're supposed to pretend they don't know where it is.

 

Or are you supposed to remove the ship and just keep track of your movements, and then put the ship back when you decloak?

 

If the ship is left on the board, then there's no reason not to reveal your dial every turn. Obviously you have to show what move you're making, since they can see the ship moving. Now if the ship is removed from the board so as to remain hidden, then revealing your dial to the other player would give away your maneuvers.

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

I usually wander on the RPG side of the forums, but I'm interested in X-Wing.

 

When you cloak your Phantom, do you leave the piece on the board for everyone to see, and just place the Cloak token next to it to remind them they're supposed to pretend they don't know where it is.

 

Or are you supposed to remove the ship and just keep track of your movements, and then put the ship back when you decloak?

 

If the ship is left on the board, then there's no reason not to reveal your dial every turn. Obviously you have to show what move you're making, since they can see the ship moving. Now if the ship is removed from the board so as to remain hidden, then revealing your dial to the other player would give away your maneuvers.

Cloak's mechanical effect is that the ship gains 2 agility, can't attack, and can decloak by doing a 2 barrel roll or boost before anyone reveals dials and removing the cloak token.

 

That's it.  The mini stays on the board, it takes actions and manoeuvres as normal, dial-revealing inlcluded, its movements aren't secret.

Things do what the card and associated rules say that they do, no more, no less.

Edited February 9, 2016 by thespaceinvader

[DailyRich 3,346]

The barrel roll after decloaking is the mechanical way the game represents "I'm not over there, I'm actually over here" and it's about as good an approximation as you can get within the current rule set.

Edited February 9, 2016 by DailyRich

[DailyRich 3,346]

 

Things do what the card and associated rules say that they do, no more, no less.

 

 

I can't tell you how often I still get Cluster Missiles and Assault Missiles mixed up, because in my mind, "cluster" means "hitting multiple things in a bunch" and "assault" means "really heavy attack," and yet the card rules are just the opposite.

[digitalbusker 2,248]

I usually wander on the RPG side of the forums, but I'm interested in X-Wing.

 

When you cloak your Phantom, do you leave the piece on the board for everyone to see, and just place the Cloak token next to it to remind them they're supposed to pretend they don't know where it is.

 

Or are you supposed to remove the ship and just keep track of your movements, and then put the ship back when you decloak?

 

If the ship is left on the board, then there's no reason not to reveal your dial every turn. Obviously you have to show what move you're making, since they can see the ship moving. Now if the ship is removed from the board so as to remain hidden, then revealing your dial to the other player would give away your maneuvers.

The Phantom's "cloaked" state is more like "displaced". It's "actually" 60mm away from where it looks like it is. Fluff-wise I tend to think of it as "my scanners can tell there's something there, but I can't get a precise fix on its location." (I try not to think too hard about why that doesn't prevent me from acquiring a Target Lock on it.)

[StevenO 2,996]

Yep.  Spend the token, make the mandatory decloak maneuver, THEN immediately reveal your dial.

 

That is how it originally worked but the way decloaking happen has errata.  Now you decloak at the start of the maneuver/activation phase before any dials get revealed.  Before your high PS Phantoms got to see everything that happened before their activation came up and could decide then if they wanted to decloak or not and where they would go; now the have to decide to decloak and where BEFORE they see where anyone else is going barring the use of an Intelligence Agent.

[Darth Emphatic 148]

Things do what the card and associated rules say that they do, no more, no less.

 

I can't tell you how often I still get Cluster Missiles and Assault Missiles mixed up, because in my mind, "cluster" means "hitting multiple things in a bunch" and "assault" means "really heavy attack," and yet the card rules are just the opposite.

I actually agree...I wish these were reversed.

[Warpman 2,115]

Yep.  Spend the token, make the mandatory decloak maneuver, THEN immediately reveal your dial.

nope, FAQd long ago.

[Dr Zoidberg 3,200]

 

Yep.  Spend the token, make the mandatory decloak maneuver, THEN immediately reveal your dial.

nope, FAQd long ago.

 

 

How are people still missing this FAQ?  Do they even check the rules for updates?

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

How are people still missing this FAQ? 

People who post in the rules forum often can't find the FAQ, because its tucked away in an obscure corner of the site, and they might not be aware that it even exists.

 

We're here to teach, not admonish.

If it's particularly frustrating, maybe add a link to your profile signature, so that it's available to anyone who reads one of your posts!