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ThePinkyBrains

Having trouble transitioning from imperials

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I started this game probably a year and a half ago, and played exclusively imperials until probably late November of last year. Since then, I have also gotten a few rebels. My problem is that I cannot be consistent with non imperials. I've only won a few times, which is not a big deal to me, but I usually don't have a whole lot of fun with them, which is a big deal to me. I can't figure out what makes the two other factions tick. I usually do pretty swarmy imperial lists, with at least 3-4 tie fighters. The general idea of a few lists that I use, and thoroughly enjoy, with empire are:

 

Oicunn Decimator

Academy pilot x4

 

 

Vader

Academy pilot x3

Palp shuttle

 

 

And my new favorite:

Soontir, ptl, targeting computer

Academy pilot x3

Backstabber

Dark Curse

 

I've tried to make 4 ship lists with scum, like:

Cartel Marauder

Torkil, moldy crow, blaster

drea, tlt, btl4, unhinged

n'dru, vi, cluster missiles, glitterstim

 

But I just can't figure out how to fly them. Any tips for learning scum or rebels? Or maybe something I can fly similarly?

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You could try a yt + A-wing build

 

A friend of mine beat up my scum with chewbacca and 2 green squad pilots. I was thinking maybe a wings because they have great dials, 3 agility, and the evade action, all things I have been sorely missing from the empire. I only have the individual A-wing so far though, but I may have to look into this. What kinds of builds would you do with that premise?

 

 

Having trouble transitioning from imperials

As you should.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the empire is my favorite by far. I just want a more complete game experience, and some variety in gameplay. Plus I feel like I would probably find blocking annoying if my opponent did it every single game lol

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You could try a yt + A-wing build

 

A friend of mine beat up my scum with chewbacca and 2 green squad pilots. I was thinking maybe a wings because they have great dials, 3 agility, and the evade action, all things I have been sorely missing from the empire. I only have the individual A-wing so far though, but I may have to look into this. What kinds of builds would you do with that premise?

I'd def. recommend picking up Rebel Aces, even just for all the A-wing goodies it comes with (e.g. Jake Farrell, Chardaan Refit, etc.) 

 

A pair of Prototypes make great blockers (though my experience with running autothrusters on them is about 50/50). There's also Greens with Crack Shot or Juke (I almost always put AT's on Greens). Jake Farrell and Tycho Celchu I usually run with some combination of PtL, Veteran Instincts, Juke, Wired, or Predator (maybe the occasional Outmaneuver). The T-70 and E-wing can certainly get you your maneuverability fix as well. 

Edited by daxxglax

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I can see the pattern in your Imp lists

it's ace+Miniswarm

 

so you should try the other faction adaptations to that, like

 

Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14    

Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14    

Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14    

Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14    

 

Bossk — YV-666 35 Push the Limit 3 K4 Security Droid

Edited by Warpman

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I can see the pattern in your Imp lists

it's ace+Miniswarm

 

so you should try the other faction adaptations to that, like

 

Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14    

Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14    

Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14    

Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14    

 

Bossk — YV-666 35 Push the Limit 3 K4 Security Droid

 

 

Yeah, that about sums up what I like. Good call Warpman. The Soontir/Dark Curse/Backstabber/3 Academies is nice because 1) there are six ships and 2) is has a nice mix of pilot skill, which makes games interesting imo 

 

Anyways, Z95s and A wings should be my go to guys for sorta swarminess? At first glance the M3As looked interesting since they are so similar to ties, but the internets scared me away from them.

 

Edit: By the way, this is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for, thanks much

Edited by ThePinkyBrains

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A-wings are a bit too expensive for swarminess, but they are perfect ace-platforms, although 2 primary is mostly lacking right now.

Jake farrel with PTL and VI can dish out all the Soontir shenanigans and even more, if you have Kyle Katarn!

(he can move, focus, perform a free BR, and then at the beginning of combat phase get a focus from katarn, make a boost, PTL for evade\TL and make even PS11 nervous being out-arcdodged that way)

 

 

Z-95 aren't Ties, not as grand as blockers, no access to Howlie for damage output, but Feedback Array lets you spread them out and use them as fishnet to catch super-dodgy aces, bump the enemy for 1 guaranteed damage even when you block him.

In the future Z-95 will have the chance to become alpha dealers, when Guidance Chips arrive.

 

M3A is plainly overpriced, just 1 point more and you get A-wings and Tie\fo that are better in most regards.

it CAN be used, though like Stealth Laetin if your dice are hot

or can be used as solo flanker with Mangler at 20 pts but still overpriced.

 

Other swarm-lovers of S&V include Kath Scarlett (it's even perfect lore-wise, taking her with Binayre pirates!) who loves blocking the foe to dish out Focus+TL 5 attacks out of AuxArc

Xizor is the slave-driver king, who loves the Z95s as cannon fodder

 

Generally, just have fun. Builds will form themselves over time, the transition from Empire is not as harsh as transition from Rebels.

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Not... playing the Empire? It's the most fun faction, in my opinion. Only the A-Wing in the Rebel fleet gives me a similar joy in flying.

 

Rebels are about slow-rolling and being beefy enough to take a few hits before you spring your trap. Poe is one of their best pilots and, with BB-8 shenanigans among other upgrades, can certainly feel like flying an Imperial ship.

 

A-Wings are a blast, and a Green Squadron Pilot can be one of the best blockers in the game depending on how you kit one out.

 

Rebels really dominate the 25-30 point market, meaning you can reliably have 4 solid ships in a list. TLT Y-Wings, much to my chagrin, are some of the best points-for-value filler in the entire game. B-Wings are solid but take some getting used to.

 

Miranda, Dash or Corran can also play the part of Ace in a list, although they're more popular in a 2-ship build. 48 points of Zs rarely will match up to what a 48-point Corran or Dash can do, while 48 points of TIEs can easily perform with an equal amount of points in the Imperial fleet. The most difficult thing (for me, anyway) when playing a Rebel list is learning to block without being able to Barrel Roll, because those Rebel dials typically are too slow for my liking.

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Agree with warpman, bugzapper Z's are superb ships, pretty underrated imo. They go great with a lot of ships too, I like em alongside Kath with K4&ptl myself.

 

I also have a lot of fun with a pseudo ace+swarm list: 3 cartel maruaders plus your choice of Super-Guri. Most of her good builds clock in at around 40 points, and you can have a lot of fun tweaking her to your advantage - she's great with advanced sensors & ptl or predator & sensor jammer, for example... 3 Kihraxz can really put some pain on your opponent, especially if he takes your butterfly bait...

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Give Corran Horn with Advanced Sensors, PTL, R2D2, and Engine Upgrade a try. Sure, he's 49 points and half your list but I think he has kind of an Imperial feel to him. The greens on the dial aren't quite what you are used to but he makes up for it with the regen and getting rid of the stress from PTL as soon as he gets it.

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And if you want real batmobile give him the "I want more greens" R2 droid.

sure, regen is OP as hell, but this way you get yourself a real batman, able to woop around without getting stressed.

Advsensor boost+BR then green to clean the stress, he can murder PS7 and lower without really planning.

 

BatHorn+BatWedge+Awing blocker is the most Fun list I've made ever

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Try Xizor w/ mini-swarm of Z-95's.  I think you'll like it as it's close to what you are used to. 

 

Xizor w/ title, FCS, VI, and Flechette Torpedoes (for other aces)  Usually enough points for either Glitterstim or ID. 

 

I'm used to Imperial swarm lists. But at Store champs on Saturday I used Xisor w/ title, Adv. Sensors, Autothrusters & Predator, with 3 Binayre Pirates and  Syndicate Thug w/ TLT. Xisor was amazing and so were the Zs. I'd be tempted next time to drop the Y and take 2 extra Zs instead. Well worth a go.

Edited by Graeme Lyon

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Yes, this is not unexpected. Having the mobility of the average imperial ship can make it feel like you are trying to run in mud when you switch over.  I went the other way, started with rebs and then flew empire.  I agree that empire is the most fun to fly.

 

try a T-70 out with ello and bb-8

 

try out a brobots list

 

a-wings, as previously mentioned.

 

What the rebels cannot do is a hyper maneuverable swarm, which is what you are used to.  I will say this, learning to fly rebels will make you a better pilot, because your post movement options are usually very limited.  I usually fly rebels "slower"  keeping people in my arcs longer, and I fly them more as a group or a dragnet, so they can help each other out.

 

Rebels have great synergies and action economy.  dutch is great.  used to fly dutch and garvin a good bit.  use a rookie xwing with R3-A2 as well.  then there is the stresshog, which I am personally not a huge fan of, but is pretty popular.  check out panick attack for a great rebel control list. 

 

good old Y-wings with ion or TLT are good as well.

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Try Xizor w/ mini-swarm of Z-95's.  I think you'll like it as it's close to what you are used to. 

 

Xizor w/ title, FCS, VI, and Flechette Torpedoes (for other aces)  Usually enough points for either Glitterstim or ID. 

 

I'm used to Imperial swarm lists. But at Store champs on Saturday I used Xisor w/ title, Adv. Sensors, Autothrusters & Predator, with 3 Binayre Pirates and  Syndicate Thug w/ TLT. Xisor was amazing and so were the Zs. I'd be tempted next time to drop the Y and take 2 extra Zs instead. Well worth a go.

 

 

I've done some fiddling on some army builders and I ended up with something similar to that. I thought that 3 Z95s, a turret, and and ace. Mine was something like

Binayre Pirate x3

Hawk 290, tlt

Talonbane Cobra, cobra stuff

 

I'm glad to see that I might have been onto something, thanks for that. 

 

 

Yes, this is not unexpected. Having the mobility of the average imperial ship can make it feel like you are trying to run in mud when you switch over.  I went the other way, started with rebs and then flew empire.  I agree that empire is the most fun to fly.

...

What the rebels cannot do is a hyper maneuverable swarm, which is what you are used to.  I will say this, learning to fly rebels will make you a better pilot, because your post movement options are usually very limited.  I usually fly rebels "slower"  keeping people in my arcs longer, and I fly them more as a group or a dragnet, so they can help each other out.

...

 

That is definitely a problem I have. With my tie fighters, I love using the 5 straight and getting in there right off the bat, with the ace skulking in the way back. Also straight 1s and soft 1 turns are nice, but so unfamiliar and not like the hard 1 turns. You would think that rebels would be simpler to fly since they are slower and frequently only have focus and target lock to choose from.

 

One good way to get to know a ship is to just drop down to the generics. Once you've got a feel for the dial, making better use of the aces is easier to pick up.

 

Again, some really solid advice, exactly the kind I think I needed. I think I might try flying a lot of cheap un-upgraded ships to see how they move and what they need to be better

 

Thanks everybody, this has been very helpful so far

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Try 3x Cartel Marauder (Kihraxz) and 3x Black Sun Soldier (Z-95) then slowly build off from there, add a Starviper.

 

The thing with Scum pilot abilities is that your opponents can and will play around them, it's more like pseudo control where you can threaten and force them to fly differently rather than Imperial's abilities that directly impact the battle.

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