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joyrock

How exactly is the phantom balanced?

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you had Wampa + Palpatine , if you could correctly guess Whispers end location you could have 2 shot Whisper with Wampa at R3 through asteroids.

Wampa AND Omega Leader. You know what Whisper doesn't like? Not being able to modify her defence dice or rely on FCS. Between those two, particularly with Palpatine in support, you should be able to create a huge dead zone that Whisper is ****ing TERRIFIED to enter.

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Yeah, with your list, you should have been happy to see Whisper across the table. You have a PWT - nothing outmaneuvers that; you have Wampa backed by Palpatine - auto damage card; you have Omega Leader - giving a giant middle finger to any of Whispers tokens, AND juking through one of Whispers evades.

Your list is a straight up hard counter to Phantoms. As others have said, you just need more practice, and there's no shame in that.

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The best way to kill a phantom you aren't a bigger ps than is the old fashioned throw dice at it. Sorry I'm sure its not what you wanted to hear. Green dice have a habbit of buckling so you just have to focus on it till it drops from weight of fire.

So not balanced then. Got it.
The opposite actually. It's a great little ship that has a very big flaw (its easy to one shot). If you can't outmanoeuvre it then you just have to shoot it down with fire. So is Soontir Fel unbalanced just because hes hard to outmanoeuvre?
To be fair, if a unit in a game is considered the "auto take" for its type like Soontir Fel is, it is probably not balanced, lol.

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When Miranda can turn up with her 2 mighty duck buddies, all 3 toting TLTs and there's only a single turret available to Imperials on a minimum of a 40 ship, I don't think Whisper, Super Soontir or Sensor Jammer Vader are all that bad, take all 3 and you'll still struggle to chew through that 100 K-Wing list in under an hour.

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Your list is a straight up hard counter to Phantoms. As others have said, you just need more practice, and there's no shame in that.

Eh, "hard counter" is a little strong. It takes a bit of doing to get Whisper in arc of a PS8 TIE/fo. You'd way rather see Soontir across the board than Whisper, if only because he's a lot easier to block.

If you were running VI EU Vader alongside the Palpaboat, THAT'S a hard counter to an ace Phantom.

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The best way to kill a phantom you aren't a bigger ps than is the old fashioned throw dice at it. Sorry I'm sure its not what you wanted to hear. Green dice have a habbit of buckling so you just have to focus on it till it drops from weight of fire.

So not balanced then. Got it.

 

The opposite actually. It's a great little ship that has a very big flaw (its easy to one shot). If you can't outmanoeuvre it then you just have to shoot it down with fire. So is Soontir Fel unbalanced just because hes hard to outmanoeuvre?

 

To be fair, if a unit in a game is considered the "auto take" for its type like Soontir Fel is, it is probably not balanced, lol.

 

 
It's not so much that Soontir is unbalanced, but that he is the only pilot who truly gets the most out of the Interceptor.
 
The Interceptor lives and dies by its ability to dodge arcs, so it wants to move as late as possible and use Push the Limit to both boost and barrel roll. Therefore you want high PS and Push the Limit, and Soontir has both the highest pilot skill available and an ability that synchronises naturally with PtL.
 
Not to say that the other pilots are necessarily bad (Carnor and Turr in particular have their place as a control piece and pocket ace, respectively), but if you are looking for a straightforward dogfighting Interceptor, no one does it better than Soontir.
Edited by DR4CO

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The best way to kill a phantom you aren't a bigger ps than is the old fashioned throw dice at it. Sorry I'm sure its not what you wanted to hear. Green dice have a habbit of buckling so you just have to focus on it till it drops from weight of fire.

So not balanced then. Got it.

 

It's no longer at 15/10, it's just a 9 or 10/10 ship on the busted overpowered bull scale. It's still broken post-nerf, but it's about as broken as any other Acewing ship now.

 

All Acewing ships are like this. The way the game functioned in the golden age wave 3 meta where your ship moved once, maybe did one action, and maybe fired once are gone. It sucks but you can fly busted overpowered **** too.

 

I reccommend just flying similar squads but with larger initiative bids so that your cloaking Death Star phantom fires before theirs can cloak to save itself.

 

Whisper with Veteran Instincts, Fire Control System, Advanced Cloaking Device, and Gunner is 44 points.

 

Darth Vader with VI, X1 Title, Advanced Targeting Computer, Engine Upgrade, and Proton Rockets is 38 points.

 

Then fly either a PS 1 TIE FO at 97 points, or an Academy Pilot for 94 points.

 

Your Phantom fires first, so it should be able to do some work. If Vader gets into range 1 of something and can both TL and focus that's just 5/5 hits on something.

 

TIE Fighter is there to block things and to occasionally damage something with its bubble blower.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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Yeah, just ignore ParaGoomba. While some things he says has merit, he tends to over-exaggerate things.

When I show up to a $5 entry 3 round event and 12-14 players show up, 6 of them with identical VI Autothrusters Regen Poe Damerons, I'm not over-exaggerating things.

 

I was told the phantom didn't ruin the game and didn't need to be nerfed, and to just, "get good and throw dice at it until it dies."

 

I was told that fat turrets weren't broken and required skill and didn't ruin the game.

 

Now I'm being told I'm just over-exaggerating things when I say that TIE Fighters are just obsolescent soap bubbles or that the game right now is all about having higher Pilot Skill and boosting.

 

OP, many people on these forums want them to be an echo chamber of positivity, and will oppose people with valid complaints just because they're complaints, or because you didn't use euphemisms or a smarmy Alex Davy smile. An opinion being negative has no bearing on whether or not it's true.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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So...

 

Dustin just won the SC in Lincoln this weekend with a TIE Swarm.  I won here in Omaha without a PWT, using a PS 6, a PS 2, and Poe.  Brobots came in 2nd.  Sith Lords placed well both times.  We had a 3X (T-65 mind you) + Z take 2nd place here in Omaha.  Scum Boba placed well both times, 3-K is a thing, Feedback swarms can do work, and we have folks winning and placing throughout the World with Star Vipers.

 

Pretty much the only ship not hitting the table successfully is the poor Scyk.  The only Archetype missing is the "random-generated-from-squad-builder" list and I'm not too sure about that.

 

Things are better than good, they are by far the most varied and balanced they have ever been.  Do you have to account for what you expect to see when constructing your list?  Of course you do.  Are you seriously saying that a game that allows you to completely ignore your opponents choices at ANY point (including squad construction) is somehow MORE competitive than one that requires you to know a little bit about ships you aren't currently flying?

 

I really don't know what kind of meta it would take to satisfy the doom-sayers if this isn't it.

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Yeah, just ignore ParaGoomba. While some things he says has merit, he tends to over-exaggerate things.

When I show up to a $5 entry 3 round event and 12-14 players show up, 6 of them with identical VI Autothrusters Regen Poe Damerons, I'm not over-exaggerating things.

 

I was told the phantom didn't ruin the game and didn't need to be nerfed, and to just, "get good and throw dice at it until it dies."

 

I was told that fat turrets weren't broken and required skill and didn't ruin the game.

 

Now I'm being told I'm just over-exaggerating things when I say that TIE Fighters are just obsolescent soap bubbles or that the game right now is all about having higher Pilot Skill and boosting.

 

OP, many people on these forums want them to be an echo chamber of positivity, and will oppose people with valid complaints just because they're complaints, or because you didn't use euphemisms or a smarmy Alex Davy smile. An opinion being negative has no bearing on whether or not it's true.

Most people here are giving constructive advice, though, not just dismissing my opinion. And while my op was fairly negative, that advice and opinions are what I'm looking for.

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As I said, ParaGoomba, your posts have merit and I agree with most of what you say. I agree pre-nerf Phantoms were broken. I also agree that arc dodgers are a problem. However I don't see PWTs as big as an issue (aside from Super Dash), though I'm primarily as Rebel/Scum swarmer so I have the tools to face them.

 

For example, most PWTs it's easy to tell where they can boost, so you set up your ships to where if they boost, they'll get punished for it. I did this with my 4 T-70s against a fleeing Decimator.

 

As for Arc Dodgers like Fel and Dash, having the ability to both boost and barrel roll is an issue in that they are harder to predict where they are at, akin to how pre-nerf Phantoms were. However, one is not as tanky (Fel) and the other has a Donut Hole, so you could get to where he couldn't shoot you or force him to back away. Pre-Nerf Phantoms had the best qualities of Fel and Dash, tankiness, hard hitting, and avoiding arcs. Now, it's lost some of its arc avoiding abilities due to decloak timing, but it's still a very good ship that now requires skill to fly properly, much like Fel. If there's a ship anywhere close, I would say Super Dash due to boost/barrel roll, and ignoring obstacle. but, that donut hole mixes things up.

Edited by MegaSilver

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What are you supposed to do against him, if you don't have any real options to force damage through, or shoot before he cloaks?

 

If you don't have aces, just throw high power attacks at it, for example, HLCs, or ordnance. See how the phantom vaporizes in 1-2 shots even with its 4 defense dice.

 

There's not much difference in shooting a cloaked phantom than another agile ship at range 3, like let's say... an interceptor, which are even more elusive with autothrusters and stealth device.

 

The difference is only in your mind. Phantoms just tend to scare novice players, who see 4 green dice and freak out believing that it somehow makes them immune to damage.

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You will see "the same ships" coming up. Poe (He is top class with almost no way to run him wrong) Fel (The Baron has been feared since he was released) Both Phantoms (4 native attack can't be wrong) Han (Has been a top class pilot since wave 2(?) ) the list goes on....

Of course you will see these pilots, they are the best of the best and so you will continue to see them until a new bad a££ ace comes along and the meta changes again. I can't see where this negativity comes from. We have such a wide variety of lists at the minute that I really think this is the best we've had it.

Edited by Spaceman91

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When Miranda can turn up with her 2 mighty duck buddies, all 3 toting TLTs and there's only a single turret available to Imperials on a minimum of a 40 ship, I don't think Whisper, Super Soontir or Sensor Jammer Vader are all that bad, take all 3 and you'll still struggle to chew through that 100 K-Wing list in under an hour.

I'm continually confused every time I see any non-offensive system on Vader. Sensor Jammer Vader has at most 1 worthwhile attack via a procket. After that he just tries to impotently whack people with a feather (I don't go so far as to say 2-dice attacks are obsolete, but they do pigeonhole a ship into a role completely at odds with Vader's typical one). It's incredibly depressing to watch him fly against ships with 3 agility and the Evade action during the endgame (That match was actually more annoying then playing keep away from a lone TLT while I tried to line up an approach that wasn't suicide).

Am I missing something, or are people just trying crazy things for store Championships?

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Now I'm being told I'm just over-exaggerating things when I say that TIE Fighters are just obsolescent soap bubbles

Who the hell is telling you that? The only comments about swarms I ever see on here are along the lines of "swarms are still good, just not overpowered good lime they were in wave 1".

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Yeah, just ignore ParaGoomba. While some things he says has merit, he tends to over-exaggerate things.

When I show up to a $5 entry 3 round event and 12-14 players show up, 6 of them with identical VI Autothrusters Regen Poe Damerons, I'm not over-exaggerating things.

 

I was told the phantom didn't ruin the game and didn't need to be nerfed, and to just, "get good and throw dice at it until it dies."

 

I was told that fat turrets weren't broken and required skill and didn't ruin the game.

 

Now I'm being told I'm just over-exaggerating things when I say that TIE Fighters are just obsolescent soap bubbles or that the game right now is all about having higher Pilot Skill and boosting.

 

OP, many people on these forums want them to be an echo chamber of positivity, and will oppose people with valid complaints just because they're complaints, or because you didn't use euphemisms or a smarmy Alex Davy smile. An opinion being negative has no bearing on whether or not it's true.

 

 

Just last night, a classic, Wave 1 Howlrunner TIE Swarm won a 52-player Store Championship...

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