Tie Fighter in FO paint: Legality

[Smuggler 556]

 

Ship models may be painted as desired as long as the alterations are not offensive and do not adversely affect another player’s experience.

 

Is it adversely affecting your experience?

 

Personaly I find the "adversely affect another player’s experience" part a bit silly (the rule that is, not you kraedin). Since that is a subjective thing that only the "other player" can realy know the truth of, it basicly means you can not repaint your models at all since it could theoraticaly "adversely affect another player’s experience".

 

If we ignore that part though, I'd sya paint your models how ever you want. As long as the base plates and cards are in order it should not be a problem keeping track of what ship is what. At least not more so the keeping track of which tie in a swarm is Howlrunner...

Edited February 4, 2016 by Smuggler

[Hobojebus 11,341]

Painting your OT ships in fo paint would adversely affect my experience

[VanorDM 11,599]

Personaly I find the "adversely affect another player’s experience" part a bit silly

It's a catch all to allow a TO to use his or her discretion. Painting a shuttle like a cow would clearly be ok. But if you paint racial slurs or bit "F You!" on it or something then people may a reasonable complaint.

[Lyianx 1,434]

 

 

 

I don't know Rapture, ship tiles are not very easy to read from across the board in the heat of battle. A quick glance error that cost me the game has prompted me to not even try to read that tiny tile and ask for the ship card. It's all in the cards.

Then do not take a quick glance. Actually look at the tile and read it. You could just as easily take a quick glance at an X-Wing model and mistake it for a Z-95.

How?

How does one read a ship tile? Is that a serious question? Point your eyes at it for three seconds.

 

 

I believe he means, how would you mistake an X-wing for a Z-95. But i suppose if you painted an X-wing to look like a Z-95, it might get confusing at a .25 second glance, but looking at the wings for more than 1 second would show the difference. 

Id like to see both a Tie/FO and a normal Tie painted in FO colors, side by side, take a picture about 2.5-3 feet away, and in a gif, have it show for 1-2 seconds, and see if anyone can pick out which one is which. 

 

It would likely take a bit of looking, perhaps closer examination, which is the point. Why should i have to do that Every time to figure out which ones in the swarm are actually FO's and which ones Arent. 

 

This is of course, my own perspective. 

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

 

 

 

 

I don't know Rapture, ship tiles are not very easy to read from across the board in the heat of battle. A quick glance error that cost me the game has prompted me to not even try to read that tiny tile and ask for the ship card. It's all in the cards.

Then do not take a quick glance. Actually look at the tile and read it. You could just as easily take a quick glance at an X-Wing model and mistake it for a Z-95.

How?

How does one read a ship tile? Is that a serious question? Point your eyes at it for three seconds.

 

 

I believe he means, how would you mistake an X-wing for a Z-95. But i suppose if you painted an X-wing to look like a Z-95, it might get confusing at a .25 second glance, but looking at the wings for more than 1 second would show the difference. 

Id like to see both a Tie/FO and a normal Tie painted in FO colors, side by side, take a picture about 2.5-3 feet away, and in a gif, have it show for 1-2 seconds, and see if anyone can pick out which one is which. 

 

It would likely take a bit of looking, perhaps closer examination, which is the point. Why should i have to do that Every time to figure out which ones in the swarm are actually FO's and which ones Arent. 

 

This is of course, my own perspective. 

 

You shouldn't.

That's why swarms should have number tokens.

[Rapture 499]

Why should i have to do that Every time to figure out which ones in the swarm are actually FO's and which ones Arent.

Because the rules let players paint their ships, with the exception of producing an offensive result, however they want to.

The rules also prevent any confusion by providing an unalterable and unambiguous reference that discloses which ship a model represents located 1.5 inches below the model.

[dvorm 1,058]

But if you paint racial slurs or bit "F You!" on it or something then people may a reasonable complaint.

Most people cannot read aurebesh. You'll probably get away with any text.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Most people cannot read aurebesh.

True, but I was thinking if it was painted in english or something.

[Rawling 345]

Because the rules let players paint their ships, with the exception of producing an offensive result...

... and do not adversely affect another player’s experience

Don't call out half the rule because it's the only half that supports your argument.

[Obsidian Leader 17]

The ships are there simply to remind you that this is a models game about star fighters and to look cool. You play the game with the cards and the plastic base with placards telling you what the ships are. I come from 18 years of GW war-gaming experience and my club members are all accomplished painters. We play about 40+ different gaming systems of which about 20 include miniatures that can/need to be painted. All of us try not to have the same paint schemes as someone else in the group. This can be a bit difficult at times with certain GW armies.

 

When we started X-Wing, nearly all of us immediately got on the “painting your ships” bandwagon. Considering that there are pilot cards for Scum and Villainy for Z-95 models whose paint schemes don’t exist (a quick search on the internet will yield you some fantastic repaints as examples), it was almost expected amongst us that people would repaint ships to match.

 

As we have played in events, not only in our club but the local gaming stores we have visited we have all had various gamers very impressed with out repaints, some of which revolve around models painted similarly but being different ships. The consensus has been nothing but positive.

 

That said, you should always read your enemies’ ship placards and/or their cards. The ship is essentially superfluous. That’s why they give you squad number tokens. I humbly suggest you use the gaming components provided for their purpose and appreciate the paint jobs on the ships these people lovingly expended time on creating. I dislike how some individuals look for a reason to disqualify something someone else does due to their own laziness. 

[Rapture 499]

Because the rules let players paint their ships, with the exception of producing an offensive result...

... and do not adversely affect another player’s experienceDon't call out half the rule because it's the only half that supports your argument.

Come on. I did not point that part out because it is completely arbitrary. There is nothing that the owner of an X-Wing can do with applying paint to that model can do that 'adversely affects' another player's experience in a way that is meaningful enough to warrant mentioning.

Keep in mind that people are stamping their feet about having to read the ship tile instead of identifying the ship based on its paint scheme. So, what do they do when an opponent who is flying Wedge and Garven places his two identical, other than the bases, models on the table? That is, at worst, the exact same situation that people are complaining about here. In order to distinguish the two models, players must tilt themselves slightly at the waist and read the tile.

Or, maybe they just refuse to play because your experience is being adversely affected. Apparently some people believe that invoking that argument would be appropriate if the two X-Wings mentioned above had an identical green stripe added on the side as opposed to just matching out of the box.

[StevenO 2,996]

 

Personaly I find the "adversely affect another player’s experience" part a bit silly

It's a catch all to allow a TO to use his or her discretion. Painting a shuttle like a cow would clearly be ok. But if you paint racial slurs or bit "F You!" on it or something then people may a reasonable complaint.

 

 

This is certainly true although I'm guessing that if you look at enough WWII nose art many people could find something that triggers an irrational response.  No offense is meant but some people may not enjoy seeing revealing pinup art on someone's ships although it is something that you could expect.

[VanorDM 11,599]

The ships are there simply to remind you that this is a models game about star fighters and to look cool.

That's not completely true. Per the tournament rules you have to have the correct ship on top a peg on the base. So while it's true, mechanically the ships do nothing, you can't actually play without them.

I dislike how some individuals look for a reason to disqualify something someone else does due to their own laziness.

Has anyone here said anything even remotely along those lines? I'm fairly sure that most if not all of us would find someone using a paint job as an excuse to get someone DQ'ed to be distasteful. that however has nothing to do with being lazy, the type of person who does that is looking for an easy win, and their artistic ability or lack thereof has nothing to do with it.

[Darth Emphatic 148]

You can always forfeit instead of playing

[Lyianx 1,434]

 

 

Because the rules let players paint their ships, with the exception of producing an offensive result...

... and do not adversely affect another player’s experienceDon't call out half the rule because it's the only half that supports your argument.

Come on. I did not point that part out because it is completely arbitrary. There is nothing that the owner of an X-Wing can do with applying paint to that model can do that 'adversely affects' another player's experience in a way that is meaningful enough to warrant mentioning.

Keep in mind that people are stamping their feet about having to read the ship tile instead of identifying the ship based on its paint scheme. So, what do they do when an opponent who is flying Wedge and Garven places his two identical, other than the bases, models on the table? That is, at worst, the exact same situation that people are complaining about here. In order to distinguish the two models, players must tilt themselves slightly at the waist and read the tile.

Or, maybe they just refuse to play because your experience is being adversely affected. Apparently some people believe that invoking that argument would be appropriate if the two X-Wings mentioned above had an identical green stripe added on the side as opposed to just matching out of the box.

 

 

*sigh* Please clam down Rapture. We are not “stamping our feet about having to read”. I’m simply saying that the painting rules were made before having to take into account that they would be using nearly identical ship models, so that you can paint one, to look like the other. Those who actually play casually should agree that using an FO paint scheme on a normal tie, in combination with using Tie Fo’s in their list, would be considered rude and not do that. Competitive players, should agree not to do that, as it can be seen as a way to confuse your opponent, if even for a moment. Remember, when you have an upper hand in a match, people do waste time as a tactic.

 

If you don’t have a problem looking over at your opponents list, every time you want to remind yourself which Ties are normal, and which ones are FO’s, then that’s all well and good. But to suggest that everyone should be on your level (which is what you are implying) and shouldn’t be confused by the models on the table (which is the whole purpose of the game, fyi) is pretty ignorant. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Lyianx

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

But what about FFG themselves giving us the exact same ship (Interceptor) in two different schemes. And you can use whichever you want for whichever pilot you want?

 

Does that cause confusion and therefore not be legal?

 

For me it's the same situation. And I'd rectify it in the same way: Check with my opponent at the start of the game.

[Rapture 499]

 

 

 

If you don’t have a problem looking over at your opponents list, every time you want to remind yourself which Ties are normal, and which ones are FO’s, then that’s all well and good. But to suggest that everyone should be on your level (which is what you are implying) and shouldn’t be confused by the models on the table (which is the whole purpose of the game, fyi) is pretty ignorant. 

 

 

*sigh* I am perfectly calm. I don't paint my models with anything more than a stripe in a bold color.

 

Also, I am suggesting that everyone should be on my level. Being able to distinguish between two identical(ish - in the case of TIEs painted to look like TIE/FOs) ships is something that the rules and game design anticipated and expect players to be able to do. The ship tiles do not include the pilot name because it looks nice - they are meant to be informative. 

 

 

 

  *sigh* Please clam down Rapture. We are not “stamping our feet about having to read”. I’m simply saying that the painting rules were made before having to take into account that they would be using nearly identical ship models, so that you can paint one, to look like the other. Those who actually play casually should agree that using an FO paint scheme on a normal tie, in combination with using Tie Fo’s in their list, would be considered rude and not do that. Competitive players, should agree not to do that, as it can be seen as a way to confuse your opponent, if even for a moment. Remember, when you have an upper hand in a match, people do waste time as a tactic.

 

 

They most certainly were not. This game has always had the potential for identical models with different rules to be on the table.

 

How is using a TIE with TIE/FO colors and a TIE/FO at the same time any different than using two X-Wings where one is Wedge and the other is Garven?

 

Don't both require both the player and the opponent to look at the tiles to confirm which ship is which?

 

Would you consider that rude of the player using the X-Wings?

 

I apologize for mischaracterizing your complaint as 'stamping your feet' and will restate my view of your complaint as thoughtlessly advocating against an accepted and intentional aspect of the game's design.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Does that cause confusion and therefore not be legal?

that's come up before, people wanting to know if you could use the red Interceptor with Fell. I think that like so many of these other questions are best left up to the players and the TO if needed. The rules are actually fairly clear.

You can repaint your model but if someone has an issue with it the TO may tell you that you can't use it.

[StevenO 2,996]

But what about FFG themselves giving us the exact same ship (Interceptor) in two different schemes. And you can use whichever you want for whichever pilot you want?

 

Does that cause confusion and therefore not be legal?

 

For me it's the same situation. And I'd rectify it in the same way: Check with my opponent at the start of the game.

 

Three different official paint jobs on the Interceptor and there is nothing your opponent can do about it.

 

I mean what Interceptor model should the typical Fel be using?  It is extremely easy to make arguments for any of them:

Unmarked:  That's the model that Fel came with so that is the model you should use.

Red:  He is using the Royal Guard modification and most assume that the Red Interceptor is the RG one so that is the model you should use.

Striped:  Somebody, somewhere, has said this is these are the markings that Fel and his squadron use so THAT is the model you should use for Fel.  Can't say I recall this one so it is the least reasonable but maybe the one your opponent expects.

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Oh Fel is for sure a striped Interceptor in the EU. So he 'should' use that model. But as long as it's an interceptor model, it's fine and legal and I wouldn't get annoyed at anyone. It's my job to remember who's flying it about.

[VanorDM 11,599]

One thing to remember however, is the TO's word if final even if it's technically wrong.

So that means if someone complains about you using a striped Interceptor, and the TO for whatever reason agrees they can require you to change models and in fact DQ you if you don't have one.

Now that would mean the TO is a complete ******, and most likely using that as an excuse to DQ someone or just flex their TO'ness. It would also mean I'd never take part in another even with that TO, and would even tell the store owner that if they weren't dealt with I'd never shop there again...

But none of that would stop the TO from DQ'ing someone if they want to.

[dbmeboy 807]

One thing to remember however, is the TO's word if final even if it's technically wrong.So that means if someone complains about you using a striped Interceptor, and the TO for whatever reason agrees they can require you to change models and in fact DQ you if you don't have one.Now that would mean the TO is a complete ******, and most likely using that as an excuse to DQ someone or just flex their TO'ness. It would also mean I'd never take part in another even with that TO, and would even tell the store owner that if they weren't dealt with I'd never shop there again...But none of that would stop the TO from DQ'ing someone if they want to.

While I agree that the TO has the ability to disqualify someone for frivolous reasons (I mean, the TO could DQ someone for having blue eyes and there's not much you could do about it at the time), I'm not sure the rules documents support the TO being permitted to DQ someone for using an unaltered official component such as one of the Imperial Aces Interceptors.

[VanorDM 11,599]

I'm not sure the rules documents support the TO being permitted to DQ someone for using an unaltered official component such as one of the Imperial Aces Interceptors.

There isn't, other than the fact that the tournament rules give the TO pretty broad discretion on things. A TO could rule that by having an interceptor that doesn't match the card, you're trying to confuse the other player, and so DQ you on the grounds of poor sportsmanship.

It would be fairly ridiculous for someone to do that, but they do have that ability. Perhaps it's not even worth mentioning... since I can't imagine anyone ever doing it.

[StevenO 2,996]

If I came to a tournament with only the ships I was going to play and someone didn't approve of my Interceptor choice for Fel they wouldn't need to DQ me.  I'd DEMAND any entry fee I paid be returned and would leave, never to return.

[Parravon 5,217]

I think the key issue is an Interceptor is still an Interceptor regardless of the colour scheme. A TIE painted to look like a TIE/fo is NOT. Those two types have different characteristics, and the confusion caused would be unwarranted.

Personally, I think painting your regular TIEs to look like TIE/fos is an absolutely stupid thing to do, specifically because it's confusing for other players.