Tie Fighter in FO paint: Legality

[Lyianx 1,434]

Normally, its considered legal to paint your minis, as long as you don't psychically modify them. However, since Tie Fighters and Tie/FO's have a very similar mold (looking identical at a glance or if you aren't looking closely), its easy to confuse them if you are playing against someone who has painted their fighter to look like an FO (or if they are using FO's and FO painted Ties). I find this confusing and those of us at our local store agree it should not be allowed in tournaments. Although your opponent could warn you, saying its just a normal Tie Fighter, i dont think it would be hard to forget when you are planning your maneuver, glance at it, and think "ok, thats an FO, it can S-loop, so i should do this". This is from someone who sometimes forgets to use his own ability's, even tho they are right there in front of me, and i KNOW im not the only one. 
 
I personally think it should not be tournament legal to paint tie fighters, in FO colors for this reason. What do you guys think?

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

At tournaments, the TO/s have your list, and you should have another copy of it to show to your opponent at the start of the game. Plus all the cards in front of you.

 

So even with similar paint schemes, it should be very clear which ships are being used. And so allowed at events.

[eibon 30]

A very easy way to avoid any confusion is to number the ships n cards, if they all got I'd tags ull no who or what ur shooting

[Rapture 499]

This game is not complicated, but you are expected to be able to read. Every ship base has a piece of cardboard that says, unambiguously, what it is.

[DR4CO 6,234]

Would you be making the same complaint if someone had painted all his TIE Fighters and TIE/fos one solid colour instead?

[ArbitraryNerd 1,009]

^Irrefutable logic. Nothing stops you from painting all of your ships a single, solid color.

 

 

... I am now tempted to paint an entire list completely black.

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

^Irrefutable logic. Nothing stops you from painting all of your ships a single, solid color.

 

 

... I am now tempted to paint an entire list completely black.

And I thought the benefit of a prepainted minis system was NOT having to fight against armies that have just been assembled and basecoated and thrown at the table

 

Yeah, no question this is legal, but at the same time, the player should be ensuring that his ships are adequately identified by number tokens so you can easily tell them apart from a distance at the table.

 

When I finish my repainting, all my TIEs will have the same basic colour scheme, but I'll probably put different squadron markings on my l/ns and my f/os.

[John79 47]

I don't know Rapture, ship tiles are not very easy to read from across the board in the heat of battle.  A quick glance error that cost me the game has prompted me to not even try to read that tiny tile and ask for the ship card.  It's all in the cards. 

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

I am now tempted to paint an entire list completely black.

You see a white TIE and you want to paint it black?

[VanorDM 11,599]

You see a white TIE and you want to paint it black?

I wonder how many people will get that... Myself I say bravo good sir, bravo.

Tournament rules state you can't use a TIE/fo model for a Tie Fighter, but the rules do allow you to paint them. However the rules also say that the final word on if a component is acceptable belongs to the TO.

So if the TO doesn't like it, then they can make you pull out unpainted ties. The fact that you have the correct ship tokens on the base doesn't really matter since the TO has the final word.

Speaking as a TO I wouldn't likely say anything about it, unless it was clear someone was doing it for the sake of misleading their opponents.

Edited February 2, 2016 by VanorDM

[Lyianx 1,434]

 

You see a white TIE and you want to paint it black?

I wonder how many people will get that... Myself I say bravo good sir, bravo.

Tournament rules state you can't use a TIE/fo model for a Tie Fighter, but the rules do allow you to paint them. However the rules also say that the final word on if a component is acceptable belongs to the TO.

So if the TO doesn't like it, then they can make you pull out unpainted ties. The fact that you have the correct ship tokens on the base doesn't really matter since the TO has the final word.

Speaking as a TO I wouldn't likely say anything about it, unless it was clear someone was doing it for the sake of misleading their opponents.

 

 

Tho, how do you know they would be doing it to mislead or not? They could just say they wernt, with the intention that they were. I can accept that its the TO's call, so long as it is an option. 

 

At tournaments, the TO/s have your list, and you should have another copy of it to show to your opponent at the start of the game. Plus all the cards in front of you.

 

So even with similar paint schemes, it should be very clear which ships are being used. And so allowed at events.

 

No, its not, that's my point. The fighters look very similar to each other. Only on close inspection can you see the subtle differences. I've never had a copy of my opponents list with me when i played in tournaments. I had to look accross the table (and usually say "let me see that" to actually read the dam thing. Perhaps you might find it easy, and a no brainier, not everyone does. 

[VanorDM 11,599]

Tho, how do you know they would be doing it to mislead or not?

I'd use my best judgement and look at how confusing it is, vs how confusing it needs to be.

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Tho, how do you know they would be doing it to mislead or not? They could just say they wernt, with the intention that they were. I can accept that its the TO's call, so long as it is an option. 

 

At tournaments, the TO/s have your list, and you should have another copy of it to show to your opponent at the start of the game. Plus all the cards in front of you.

 

So even with similar paint schemes, it should be very clear which ships are being used. And so allowed at events.

 

No, its not, that's my point. The fighters look very similar to each other. Only on close inspection can you see the subtle differences. I've never had a copy of my opponents list with me when i played in tournaments. I had to look accross the table (and usually say "let me see that" to actually read the dam thing. Perhaps you might find it easy, and a no brainier, not everyone does. 

 

Must be different for different areas/countries then. In the UK, all the events I've been too either myself and my opponent have shown each other lists, or we just list vocally what we have at the start of the game. It's just good courtesy. It's when you go "ooooh no I can't deal with THAT" and despair about the game to come

 

I've never got to a table and we've just set up and started. Always some sort of list explanation/exchange. And most events have asked you to bring two copies on the info for the event.

So if you get to the table and the person says 'so I have Fel, Vader and 3 Obsidian TIEs', you know those are normal TIEs not FOs. And he has the cards there on his side so you can see them too.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Must be different for different areas/countries then.

I've always told the other person what I have and they tell me. I've never bought a printed list, but I go though my list before the match starts and answer any questions about upgrades or pilot abilities.

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Yeah we've always had to hand in a copy at the event's I've done. So if something comes up the TO can check their copy and go 'hey, you didn't write down that card...'

 

And yeah, even without all that. Just ask. Just casual like 'oh hey, what pilots and upgrades are you using'. If someone is cagey about it, call over a TO.

[Lyianx 1,434]

Well, the wording suggested that you would have a copy of your opponents list in front of you. I don't count their cards laid out in front of them as "in front of me". We do tell each other the lists, but its sometimes hard to remember, especially when you are dealing with swarms. Not everyone has a photographic memory. I've played someones same list 3 or 4 times now and i still sometimes forget one or two upgrades he has. 

[Darth Emphatic 148]

I'd be keep tracking once I know what's what in their list. I can see the bases clearly enough as well, though I understand not everyone can. Bottom line, the rules allow it and I havent heard any compelling reason that it should be changed aside from losing a game because you lost track, which you admitted you've done with your own cards right in front of you.

[StevenO 2,996]

It would be no less legal than mixing up your Interceptors which seems to drive some people mad.

[Rapture 499]

I don't know Rapture, ship tiles are not very easy to read from across the board in the heat of battle.  A quick glance error that cost me the game has prompted me to not even try to read that tiny tile and ask for the ship card.  It's all in the cards.

Then do not take a quick glance. Actually look at the tile and read it. You could just as easily take a quick glance at an X-Wing model and mistake it for a Z-95.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

I don't know Rapture, ship tiles are not very easy to read from across the board in the heat of battle.  A quick glance error that cost me the game has prompted me to not even try to read that tiny tile and ask for the ship card.  It's all in the cards.

Then do not take a quick glance. Actually look at the tile and read it. You could just as easily take a quick glance at an X-Wing model and mistake it for a Z-95.

How?

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Yeah that isn't as easy. But yes, if I ever come up against a card or pilot I am not familiar with the ability for, I make a point to read it at the start of the game so I know who/what it is.

 

And there is always lots of 'so who is on what damage now?' during the game to decide target priority. Open communication between both players is always key, and so far has always been present in my games.

[Rapture 499]

I don't know Rapture, ship tiles are not very easy to read from across the board in the heat of battle. A quick glance error that cost me the game has prompted me to not even try to read that tiny tile and ask for the ship card. It's all in the cards.

Then do not take a quick glance. Actually look at the tile and read it. You could just as easily take a quick glance at an X-Wing model and mistake it for a Z-95.

How?

How does one read a ship tile? Is that a serious question? Point your eyes at it for three seconds.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Rapture

[Darth Emphatic 148]

Making allowances for a physical handicap, in which case you can just ask your opponent, get up and move around the table. Nothing requires you to stay on your side of the table.

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

This is the reason I love this game more than any other. The players and community is so open about what they are using and talking during games in a friendly manner and having a good laugh.

 

If you look across the table and you see TIEs with white panels and red cockpits (to bring us back to the OP's point) and you aren't sure what they are, ask. Your opponent won't say 'none of your business'. They'll say 'oh, I have x, y and z and they have these upgrades'

 

Simple, friendly and informative.

[kraedin 741]

Ship models may be painted as desired as long as the alterations are not offensive and do not adversely affect another player’s experience.

 

Is it adversely affecting your experience?