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stabbald

Has FFG lost interest in Armada?

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Personally I've mentally settled on the idea that FFG is SO EMBARASED by how poorly wave 2 was handled that they are going to wait until wave 3 has been fully workshopped, prototyped and tooled before they say a **** thing.

 

This is a good thing.

 

I expect delay between announcement and ship to be a couple of months

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Give up! It's all over! There was only a release a couple of months ago, but what does that mean? Nothing. We should all take our models, throw them on a massive bonfire, and burn them.

 

All I see is ash.

 

All I hear is wailing and the gnashing of teeth.

 

Abandon all hope, all ye who enter here.

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Armada could crash and burn as a product line tomorrow, and it would still make my table for years and years to come.

The deliberate pacing of releases combined with a more measured teaser strategy (lookin' at you, wave two announcement) would make me feel fantastic about the future of this game.

I really just came here to say I liked jhox's posts a lot. I'll call them cautious though, not pessimistic. ;)

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Well, to be honest, their sales have likely been lower due to the strength of the US dollar. I know I have delayed purchase due to the high price of the ships (ISD retail is minimum $75 CAD). Heck, I saw the core set for a blistering $175 CAD in a store. (It used to be maybe $120 CAD retail).

So yes, they could quite easily delay (or stop) production due to slow sales.

Xwing and IA are far less expensive games.

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Well, to be honest, their sales have likely been lower due to the strength of the US dollar. I know I have delayed purchase due to the high price of the ships (ISD retail is minimum $75 CAD). Heck, I saw the core set for a blistering $175 CAD in a store. (It used to be maybe $120 CAD retail).

So yes, they could quite easily delay (or stop) production due to slow sales.

Xwing and IA are far less expensive games.

Multiple publications have noted the strong sales.

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Well, to be honest, their sales have likely been lower due to the strength of the US dollar. I know I have delayed purchase due to the high price of the ships (ISD retail is minimum $75 CAD). Heck, I saw the core set for a blistering $175 CAD in a store. (It used to be maybe $120 CAD retail).

So yes, they could quite easily delay (or stop) production due to slow sales.

Xwing and IA are far less expensive games.

WHere the hell do you shop that an ISD is $75 CND????

 

Laughing Larrys house of rippoffs?

 

401 games lists ISD at 52$ even with tax and shipping its still less than 75. Even my local FLGS sells one for just over 60.

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Well, to be honest, their sales have likely been lower due to the strength of the US dollar. I know I have delayed purchase due to the high price of the ships (ISD retail is minimum $75 CAD). Heck, I saw the core set for a blistering $175 CAD in a store. (It used to be maybe $120 CAD retail).

So yes, they could quite easily delay (or stop) production due to slow sales.

Xwing and IA are far less expensive games.

 

Where are you shopping? I have multiple local stores in Canada selling the core for ~105 and the ISD for ~50. Even if you have no local stores, you can order online from http://www.meeplemart.com, http://store.401games.ca, or even https://www.bookdepository.com/ which is a UK based store that has free shipping to Canada and decent prices.

 

More expensive than the US online stores but still reasonable. 

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But isn't that also the crux of the big issue coming up again?  Support the FLGS to have the game to play...  Vs Online and getting the stuff, but losing the Play Place...  

 

This pre-supposes you have one. In reality, the logic tree is pretty basic.

  1. Do I have an FLGS worth supporting?
    1. Yes: Support it.
    2. No: Order Online.

I've definitely lived places where either there was no convenient FLGS, or the one that was there was such a pit I wouldn't want to support it. The one problem with wanting recruitment via indies but not having one's own retail chain is that you don't have control over the quality of indies, so you end up held captive to the terrible ones. A truly in-depth strategy by FFG would involve ranking FLGSs so that the good ones have better discounts than online retailers, the average ones have the same discount, and the bad ones are not eligible to set up trade relationships so they can freeze them out. That, or starting up their own retail chain (I've beaten this to death in the context of GW on another forum, but it's a complicated business problem to do this well, and may not be possible for a single-company store in the gaming space).

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But isn't that also the crux of the big issue coming up again?  Support the FLGS to have the game to play...  Vs Online and getting the stuff, but losing the Play Place...  

 

This pre-supposes you have one. In reality, the logic tree is pretty basic.

  1. Do I have an FLGS worth supporting?
    1. Yes: Support it.
    2. No: Order Online.

I've definitely lived places where either there was no convenient FLGS, or the one that was there was such a pit I wouldn't want to support it. The one problem with wanting recruitment via indies but not having one's own retail chain is that you don't have control over the quality of indies, so you end up held captive to the terrible ones. A truly in-depth strategy by FFG would involve ranking FLGSs so that the good ones have better discounts than online retailers, the average ones have the same discount, and the bad ones are not eligible to set up trade relationships so they can freeze them out. That, or starting up their own retail chain (I've beaten this to death in the context of GW on another forum, but it's a complicated business problem to do this well, and may not be possible for a single-company store in the gaming space).

 

As far as I know, the Canadian distributor just has a yearly minimum on how much product you move and that's basically the only bar anyone sets.

 

Frankly, some stores gouge when it comes to Armada. I don't (obviously) have wholesale cost info but I know for a fact that 401 games sells for absolute minimum MSRP and shoots for volume. I also know that smaller FLGSs can't afford to do that (and that's fine, I still support the good ones), but there are some that mark up to ridiculous levels, possibly because they figure if they are going to stock something like Armada they don't expect it to sell much so they need a big return on the capital investment of holding stock for a long time (self fulfilling prophesy at their prices).

 

But I have actually seen crazy pricing deltas, now you figure, if you only know the one store and that store sells the core set for $175, you might not give Armada a second look, and that hurts the growth of the game.

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The Sentry Box is a bit of an exception.

Its worth Supporting, after all...

 

13,000sqft of Gaming.  Live Streams of Games on Monday Nights (and Sunday days too)...

 

But they use US Retail as the basis for most of their prices, and fluctuate based on Exchange.

 

So the ISD, in this particular case, is a 50-X model.  The X, is of course, the Multiplier of the Exchange.

The current Exchange multiplyer is 1.47

 

This makes ti a $73.50 Model.

 

 

So to contend with the above statements...  Apparently, the price of an ISD here, in my Western Canadian store, is Ludicrous and I should go and buy it from 401 Games.

 

However, I have an FLGS that is certainly worth supporting.

 

So I agree. Yes.  I paid $70+ for my ISD, and am looking to do a second one when I get some more commissions...

 

...  but I still feel like I'm being told I'm stupid for doing so.

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The Sentry Box is a bit of an exception.

Its worth Supporting, after all...

 

13,000sqft of Gaming.  Live Streams of Games on Monday Nights (and Sunday days too)...

 

But they use US Retail as the basis for most of their prices, and fluctuate based on Exchange.

 

So the ISD, in this particular case, is a 50-X model.  The X, is of course, the Multiplier of the Exchange.

The current Exchange multiplyer is 1.47

 

This makes ti a $73.50 Model.

 

 

So to contend with the above statements...  Apparently, the price of an ISD here, in my Western Canadian store, is Ludicrous and I should go and buy it from 401 Games.

 

However, I have an FLGS that is certainly worth supporting.

 

So I agree. Yes.  I paid $70+ for my ISD, and am looking to do a second one when I get some more commissions...

 

...  but I still feel like I'm being told I'm stupid for doing so.

 

thing is, it sounds like your store is not actually using US retail pricing x exchange.

 

When I was doing the buffalo store tournament I bought my 3rd ISD. AFTER tax and $10 store credit I won I think I handed over 28 USD. so that would be 38 USD including an 8% sales tax. So even after tax and exchange you are looking at around $55 pre-tax Canadian retail. Even adding a healthy EXTRA markup you don't get to $75.

 

My TINY FLGS that I consistently support can manage to sell ISDs for $64. Your store might be taking the piss. Sorry.

 

Edit: to be clear the total in USD after tax was $38.xx before tax it would be even less. I think when I worked it out pre tax after exchange it was around 50 CDN.

Edited by Hastatior

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I buy my Armada (and X-Wing) stuff at my FLGS (what does the F stand for? Friendly?) because my FLGS is the hub of Star Wars tactical miniatures gaming in my area, and I want to make sure they stay in business, and I live in a no sales tax state, and I can be impulsive and buy a ship on the other end of the shop I just saw someone use in a battle on the gaming side. 

Traveling around for work a bit I can see that not everyone has a FLGS. Such poor souls wander through a barren wasteland, hungry for even a morsel of Armada fellowship. With no center of the community, they shuffle along, too tired and exhausted to cry.

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thing is, it sounds like your store is not actually using US retail pricing x exchange.

 

When I was doing the buffalo store tournament I bought my 3rd ISD. AFTER tax and $10 store credit I won I think I handed over 28 USD. so that would be 38 USD including an 8% sales tax. So even after tax and exchange you are looking at around $55 pre-tax Canadian retail. Even adding a healthy EXTRA markup you don't get to $75.

 

My TINY FLGS that I consistently support can manage to sell ISDs for $64. Your store might be taking the piss. Sorry.

 

Edit: to be clear the total in USD after tax was $38.xx before tax it would be even less. I think when I worked it out pre tax after exchange it was around 50 CDN.

 

 

US RRP of an ISD is $49.95

 

The Bank Exchange Range is 4% lower than the "Actual" Exchange rate, and when you add that percentage, you're looking at a 1.47 multiplier.

 

It is unfortunate, but it is spelled out.

 

And even when the exchange rate is better, the other local stores aren't much better when it comes to those pricings...  Because they're either ad-hoc orders, or in so low volume its barely worth shipping from the Distributor.

 

We know we live in Western Canada.  It feels like more than half the world to have to have product come from China, to the US, to Canada's East, only to try to make it back here without re-dipping back into the US once or twice.

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This is such a complex issue. Their may be movies in the making which contain ships FFG would like to use for Armada but the release of the wave has to be timed up with the release of the film which introduces the new ship(s). It's Star Wars, it's not going anywhere. Disney wants to rule the world and Armada is just one tiny branch on their tree, buts it's a healthy, thriving branch which has been well tended. I read recently that Armada is the #4 table top miniatures game. So remain calm, get to the tables and play some games with the awesome game and products we have now and patiently wait until the Mouse feels its fitting to distill more of the plastic crack we've all got to have on us. It's coming.

Btw I play X Wing and honestly Armada seems to me like FFG took every mistake they made with X Wng and fixed it with Armada. I vastly prefer slow news of greatness to constant news of above-average.

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...

Btw I play X Wing and honestly Armada seems to me like FFG took every mistake they made with X Wng and fixed it with Armada. I vastly prefer slow news of greatness to constant news of above-average.

Being a player of both I agree with this. I love both games, but Armada is more refined. 

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...

Btw I play X Wing and honestly Armada seems to me like FFG took every mistake they made with X Wng and fixed it with Armada. I vastly prefer slow news of greatness to constant news of above-average.

Being a player of both I agree with this. I love both games, but Armada is more refined. 

 

 

I have been playing Imperial assault this week, and it is also very good, and more accessible to non-gamers.

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thing is, it sounds like your store is not actually using US retail pricing x exchange.

 

When I was doing the buffalo store tournament I bought my 3rd ISD. AFTER tax and $10 store credit I won I think I handed over 28 USD. so that would be 38 USD including an 8% sales tax. So even after tax and exchange you are looking at around $55 pre-tax Canadian retail. Even adding a healthy EXTRA markup you don't get to $75.

 

My TINY FLGS that I consistently support can manage to sell ISDs for $64. Your store might be taking the piss. Sorry.

 

Edit: to be clear the total in USD after tax was $38.xx before tax it would be even less. I think when I worked it out pre tax after exchange it was around 50 CDN.

 

 

US RRP of an ISD is $49.95

 

The Bank Exchange Range is 4% lower than the "Actual" Exchange rate, and when you add that percentage, you're looking at a 1.47 multiplier.

 

It is unfortunate, but it is spelled out.

 

And even when the exchange rate is better, the other local stores aren't much better when it comes to those pricings...  Because they're either ad-hoc orders, or in so low volume its barely worth shipping from the Distributor.

 

We know we live in Western Canada.  It feels like more than half the world to have to have product come from China, to the US, to Canada's East, only to try to make it back here without re-dipping back into the US once or twice.

 

 

I was using 1.45...so.

 

Sorry, buddy, but out West you are getting straight up gouged. Maybe like you said it isn't "just" your store, but the retailers will charge what the market will bear. If you buy bulk wholesale from Lion Rampant shipping amortized across a whole shipment of FFG (and other publishers products they carry for, which is many) simply does not add that kind of markup. Personally, I would not support that sort of retail environment. Typically what I do is buy at brick and mortar when the delta is reasonable (~10-15%, maybe 20% on smaller items) any more than that and its not my problem. If the retailer is charging MORE than the market (me) will bear, it's simple economics and I do not shed a tear. Fortunately I rarely have to go online to stick to this principle.

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I must be spoiled because I can't even imagine a store marking up prices that much  when the online community will eat their profits alive. 

 

That is like GW ( i know bad word) increasing prices to make up for bad sales, and it begins this horrible cycle. . . it makes no sense to me. . . 

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