Two Weapon Fighting questions

[kaosoe 7,573]

So narative is that my two weapon fighters always swings his heavier weapon and misses and then swings his lighter weapon and hits. Then if he rolls enough advantage he activates his heavier weapon to continue its fluid motion and hitsee on the back swing motion. Now it's realistic and fits game mechanic

That's how I've been playing it with my Niman who uses Shoto as primary and standard lightsaber as secondary. Works well enough.

[Kael 1,865]

So narative is that my two weapon fighters always swings his heavier weapon and misses and then swings his lighter weapon and hits. Then if he rolls enough advantage he activates his heavier weapon to continue its fluid motion and hitsee on the back swing motion. Now it's realistic and fits game mechanic

 

It's however you want to describe it. It's a full minute of combat swinging back and forth. I'm just saying that based on how combat works the fact that you do damage with the shoto first doesn't mean you swung with the shoto first or even that you hit with the shoto first. You could describe it as hitting first with the heavy weapon but the damage is something they shrug off and then get nailed by the next two follow ups.

 

As a matter of fact ...... you can describe it as hitting with the heavier weapon first. When a single roll represents a minute of fighting the specifics matter less than how you want to describe the fight scene unfolding.

[XGrifterX 43]

Ok  Quick Question in the Two Weapon Field.   I realize that Accurate on both is Wasted,  but if you have defensive Ablities on each Light saber,  Do They Stack?  Say Two Curved Hilts, With the Defensive mod on Each.   Does that make Two Defensive than when both blades are wielded?

[Werewyvernx 195]

Currently, Defense interactions are being re-examined by the Devs. That being said, the rules mention stuff about taking the highest source of defense and using that. Some interpretations would say that two weapons with defensive 1 still only grants defensive 1. Some would say that armor with 1 defense and a defensive 2 weapon would be 2 melee defense and 1 ranged defense. Others would add all sources together, as long as only one of each "source" was used, such as armor with defense 1, a weapon with defensive 3 and deflection 2, and call that melee defense 4 and ranged defense 3.

 

Since the rules seem ambiguous to some, and seem clear cut to others, and the Devs made one ruling but are now revising their ruling, your group will have to sit down and figure out what works best for your table.

 

For example, at my table, since my group has found it amazingly easy to scale up the ability to land devastating hits, but ridiculously difficult to scale up the ability to force attacks to miss, we do the following:

 

Like in the EotE Beta, we let the defense from cover stack with armor.

We count up the number of ranks of defensive/deflection that each character is actively employing and add them up, then apply them.

If anyone in my game picks up the Defensive Training talent (no on has yet) I will add it's defensive to any defensive the weapon already has, rather than replace it.

 

Even with all this, setback dice are notorious for coming up blank at my table, and as such even defense values greater than 3 don't necessarily make a character untouchable. Plus, 1 triumph or 3 advantage, even on a failed attack roll can remove someone's defenses for a round.

 

Also, even without my table rulings, a character can get defense 1 armor, a riot shield, jury-rig the armor for the defense of their choice, and then get improved armor master. All in one spec tree, and end up with one defense at 4 and the other at 5.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Werewyvernx

[Vector Strike 623]

In my group we'll try this: stock defensive numbers (armor, cover, situational, etc) don't stack with themselves. modifier defense bonuses (Defensive, Deflection, Defensive Training, Protect, etc) dos tack with each other and with stock defensive bonuses, as long as they don't come from the same source (only the item with the highest Defensive would confer the bonus).

[BeastmanJenkins 4]

I kind of look at it like this...

 

If you have two small shields, using one in each hand, and you get in to a fight with someone, its not like one isn't gonna do what it's supposed to do. Same with having two weapons with defense bonuses. Having said that, don't get greedy. If you go nuts with the defense mods, GMs might have to consider nerfing that.

[OggDude 3,594]

I did a write-up on Two Weapon Combat.  It might be helpful.

[John1701 47]

Another possible fix would be to always take the highest bonus and the highest negatives of both weapons. In other words, deal with it like a group skill check.

For example, if one weapon has accurate 2, and the second one has accurate 1 and inaccurate 1, then you would roll accurate 2 and inaccurate 1. If they both have superior, then only take 1, etc.

[BeastmanJenkins 4]

Another possible fix would be to always take the highest bonus and the highest negatives of both weapons. In other words, deal with it like a group skill check.

For example, if one weapon has accurate 2, and the second one has accurate 1 and inaccurate 1, then you would roll accurate 2 and inaccurate 1. If they both have superior, then only take 1, etc.

This is probably how I'm gonna try to do it in games. This makes the most sense to me of anything I've heard or read yet. Nice man!

[John1701 47]

Another possible fix would be to always take the highest bonus and the highest negatives of both weapons. In other words, deal with it like a group skill check.

For example, if one weapon has accurate 2, and the second one has accurate 1 and inaccurate 1, then you would roll accurate 2 and inaccurate 1. If they both have superior, then only take 1, etc.

This is probably how I'm gonna try to do it in games. This makes the most sense to me of anything I've heard or read yet. Nice man!

Thanks! Check out the link that Oggdude posted above my comment. It's what I said but in much more detail!

[Daeglan 5,950]

I did a write-up on Two Weapon Combat.  It might be helpful.

There is an error in your summation. If you trigger the second weapon then that accuracy die is rolled then and added. So any additional dice or advantages or setback that the additional weapon brings to the table are rolled if that weapon is activated. The die is not ignored. 

 

Answered by Sam Stewart:

The weapon used sets the pool. The second weapon is only used if you gain two Advantage to trigger the second hit. So only the first weapon sets the pool. So if the second weapon has penalties or bonuses that would affect the pool, such as adding Boost or Setback dice, these would not apply. However, if the second weapon has penalties or bonuses that are applied after the pool has been rolled, then those penalties or bonuses do apply if you trigger the second weapon to hit. So If your second weapon is Accurate, you won't get Boost dice. But if your second weapon has a laser sight that gives you an Advantage on a successful attack, then if you're successful and you trigger the second hit, then you gain the additional Advantage as well.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Daeglan

[ninjahX 7]

I have a question for the sake of parry/reflect are you able to parry/ reflect the second hit or not?

[Daeglan 5,950]

I have a question for the sake of parry/reflect are you able to parry/ reflect the second hit or not?

parry reflect does not specify anything about which lightsaber only that you have to have an active saber

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

I have a question for the sake of parry/reflect are you able to parry/ reflect the second hit or not?

You are, as Parry and Reflect are both activated on a "per hit" basis.

 

So if an enemy tags you with two blaster pistol shots, you could activate Reflect twice against each hit.  It'll cost you strain to do so, but if you've got enough ranks in Reflect and a decent soak value, it could prevent you from taking some nasty damage, especially if those twin pistols are heavy blaster pistols or disruptor pistols.

 

It's also a decent trick to get an Inquisitor-level villain to quickly start burning through their strain, simply by laying down as much fire as you can and getting them to use Reflect as often as possible.

[ninjahX 7]

 

I have a question for the sake of parry/reflect are you able to parry/ reflect the second hit or not?

You are, as Parry and Reflect are both activated on a "per hit" basis.

 

 

 

Weird I thought it said that it could only be activated once per combat check, but I guess this could be the exception 

[Werewyvernx 195]

Both Parry and Reflect's long-form entries in Chapter IV call out that they may be used once per hit. So, get hit 3 times by autofire? You can Reflect each hit once. Get sliced by someone using two swords in two weapon combat? You can Parry each hit once. Get blasted by a single disruptor shot that gets 7 net successes, has 3 ranks of Point Blank, Deadly Accuracy at skill 5, and flips a destiny point to trigger a Targeted Blow with Agility 5? That's gonna hurt, as that is 30 damage coming your way in one single attack, and you can only use Reflect once on it.

[MaxKilljoy 1,107]

Both Parry and Reflect's long-form entries in Chapter IV call out that they may be used once per hit. So, get hit 3 times by autofire? You can Reflect each hit once. Get sliced by someone using two swords in two weapon combat? You can Parry each hit once. Get blasted by a single disruptor shot that gets 7 net successes, has 3 ranks of Point Blank, Deadly Accuracy at skill 5, and flips a destiny point to trigger a Targeted Blow with Agility 5? That's gonna hurt, as that is 30 damage coming your way in one single attack, and you can only use Reflect once on it.

 

So Reflect doesn't actually reflect or deflect, it just "soaks"?  

Edited February 9, 2016 by MaxKilljoy

[Lareg 367]

 

Both Parry and Reflect's long-form entries in Chapter IV call out that they may be used once per hit. So, get hit 3 times by autofire? You can Reflect each hit once. Get sliced by someone using two swords in two weapon combat? You can Parry each hit once. Get blasted by a single disruptor shot that gets 7 net successes, has 3 ranks of Point Blank, Deadly Accuracy at skill 5, and flips a destiny point to trigger a Targeted Blow with Agility 5? That's gonna hurt, as that is 30 damage coming your way in one single attack, and you can only use Reflect once on it.

 

So Reflect doesn't actually reflect or deflect, it just "soaks"?  

 

Yes exactly. It's a way to reduce the damage done by blasters, hopefully reducing it enough to be negligible. Improved Reflect though allows you to redirect the blaster bolt back.

[MaxKilljoy 1,107]

 

 

Both Parry and Reflect's long-form entries in Chapter IV call out that they may be used once per hit. So, get hit 3 times by autofire? You can Reflect each hit once. Get sliced by someone using two swords in two weapon combat? You can Parry each hit once. Get blasted by a single disruptor shot that gets 7 net successes, has 3 ranks of Point Blank, Deadly Accuracy at skill 5, and flips a destiny point to trigger a Targeted Blow with Agility 5? That's gonna hurt, as that is 30 damage coming your way in one single attack, and you can only use Reflect once on it.

 

So Reflect doesn't actually reflect or deflect, it just "soaks"?  

 

 

Yes exactly. It's a way to reduce the damage done by blasters, hopefully reducing it enough to be negligible. Improved Reflect though allows you to redirect the blaster bolt back.

 

 

Bloody abstraction... why call it "Reflect" if it's not reflecting anything? 

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

 

 

 

Both Parry and Reflect's long-form entries in Chapter IV call out that they may be used once per hit. So, get hit 3 times by autofire? You can Reflect each hit once. Get sliced by someone using two swords in two weapon combat? You can Parry each hit once. Get blasted by a single disruptor shot that gets 7 net successes, has 3 ranks of Point Blank, Deadly Accuracy at skill 5, and flips a destiny point to trigger a Targeted Blow with Agility 5? That's gonna hurt, as that is 30 damage coming your way in one single attack, and you can only use Reflect once on it.

 

So Reflect doesn't actually reflect or deflect, it just "soaks"?  

 

 

Yes exactly. It's a way to reduce the damage done by blasters, hopefully reducing it enough to be negligible. Improved Reflect though allows you to redirect the blaster bolt back.

 

 

Bloody abstraction... why call it "Reflect" if it's not reflecting anything? 

 

Look up the dictionary definition of the word "Reflect."

 

Based upon that, the talent does enable the user to "reflect" an attack away from them, as "reflect" doesn't strictly mean that you are "reflecting" the blaster shot into another target.

[MaxKilljoy 1,107]

 

 

 

 

Both Parry and Reflect's long-form entries in Chapter IV call out that they may be used once per hit. So, get hit 3 times by autofire? You can Reflect each hit once. Get sliced by someone using two swords in two weapon combat? You can Parry each hit once. Get blasted by a single disruptor shot that gets 7 net successes, has 3 ranks of Point Blank, Deadly Accuracy at skill 5, and flips a destiny point to trigger a Targeted Blow with Agility 5? That's gonna hurt, as that is 30 damage coming your way in one single attack, and you can only use Reflect once on it.

 

So Reflect doesn't actually reflect or deflect, it just "soaks"?  

 

 

Yes exactly. It's a way to reduce the damage done by blasters, hopefully reducing it enough to be negligible. Improved Reflect though allows you to redirect the blaster bolt back.

 

 

Bloody abstraction... why call it "Reflect" if it's not reflecting anything? 

 

Look up the dictionary definition of the word "Reflect."

 

Based upon that, the talent does enable the user to "reflect" an attack away from them, as "reflect" doesn't strictly mean that you are "reflecting" the blaster shot into another target.

 

 

I'm not commenting on that, a reflected anything doesn't have to be reflected back at the origin, that's very true.

 

I'm commenting on the fact that it doesn't function as a reflection, it functions (according to what I'm reading here) as a potential partial soak of damage from the attack. 

[ninjahX 7]

Both Parry and Reflect's long-form entries in Chapter IV call out that they may be used once per hit. So, get hit 3 times by autofire? You can Reflect each hit once. 

Sorry I was just going by what I read in the combat section it said "you may parry/reflect as an incidental after dmg is applied, but before soak" so immediately after step 3 the thing is you apply the 2nd hit in step 4 of using adv. Though I still may be interrupting this wrong 

[ninjahX 7]

 

 

 

 

 

Both Parry and Reflect's long-form entries in Chapter IV call out that they may be used once per hit. So, get hit 3 times by autofire? You can Reflect each hit once. Get sliced by someone using two swords in two weapon combat? You can Parry each hit once. Get blasted by a single disruptor shot that gets 7 net successes, has 3 ranks of Point Blank, Deadly Accuracy at skill 5, and flips a destiny point to trigger a Targeted Blow with Agility 5? That's gonna hurt, as that is 30 damage coming your way in one single attack, and you can only use Reflect once on it.

 

So Reflect doesn't actually reflect or deflect, it just "soaks"?  

 

 

Yes exactly. It's a way to reduce the damage done by blasters, hopefully reducing it enough to be negligible. Improved Reflect though allows you to redirect the blaster bolt back.

 

 

Bloody abstraction... why call it "Reflect" if it's not reflecting anything? 

 

Look up the dictionary definition of the word "Reflect."

 

Based upon that, the talent does enable the user to "reflect" an attack away from them, as "reflect" doesn't strictly mean that you are "reflecting" the blaster shot into another target.

 

 

 

 

I'm commenting on the fact that it doesn't function as a reflection, it functions (according to what I'm reading here) as a potential partial soak of damage from the attack. 

 

Because in terms of gaming vs reality your wound threshold doesn't represent your actual hp rather it represents your ability to not slip up and take a hit  because when you do surpass your threshold you don't die (unless ofc someone rolled a 100 with 5 preexisting crits) which is why you receive a critical injury as it represents your character's hardiness finally reaching its limit and taking a hit. Basically reflect/parry represent you avoiding the damage more than just someone standing there taking the hit.  

[Daeglan 5,950]

 

 

 

 

 

Both Parry and Reflect's long-form entries in Chapter IV call out that they may be used once per hit. So, get hit 3 times by autofire? You can Reflect each hit once. Get sliced by someone using two swords in two weapon combat? You can Parry each hit once. Get blasted by a single disruptor shot that gets 7 net successes, has 3 ranks of Point Blank, Deadly Accuracy at skill 5, and flips a destiny point to trigger a Targeted Blow with Agility 5? That's gonna hurt, as that is 30 damage coming your way in one single attack, and you can only use Reflect once on it.

 

So Reflect doesn't actually reflect or deflect, it just "soaks"?  

 

 

Yes exactly. It's a way to reduce the damage done by blasters, hopefully reducing it enough to be negligible. Improved Reflect though allows you to redirect the blaster bolt back.

 

 

Bloody abstraction... why call it "Reflect" if it's not reflecting anything? 

 

Look up the dictionary definition of the word "Reflect."

 

Based upon that, the talent does enable the user to "reflect" an attack away from them, as "reflect" doesn't strictly mean that you are "reflecting" the blaster shot into another target.

 

 

I'm not commenting on that, a reflected anything doesn't have to be reflected back at the origin, that's very true.

 

I'm commenting on the fact that it doesn't function as a reflection, it functions (according to what I'm reading here) as a potential partial soak of damage from the attack. 

 

well since a round is about a minute long... it is representative of reflecting some but not all shots...as you get more of it you handle more.

[MaxKilljoy 1,107]

Bloody abstraction...