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PzVIE

I am a niche...

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In another post, NezziR wrote (taken completely out of context)

"especially with a small niche group like Warhammer players"

Are we really a niche? I can't belive that FFG is buying a license (which surely doesn't come cheap) to sell to a niche - this company is way beyond that. I know from some "smaller" Eurogames companies that a game which sells 10,000 copies is considered successful. How many copies of the v2 rulebook have been sold? More than 10,000? How many copies of v3 will be printed? A quick look at all those RPGs out there on the market doesn't give me the impression that WFRP is a niche product - or am I wrong here?

And if we are a niche - is that a good thing?

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 That's a good question. I said that without thinking. I'd like to know the answer to this as well. Are we considered a niche?

*Yawn*, time for me to get off work. Night folks.

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I don't think that WFRP is a niche product, there are many players to who this system is the best. I grew up on this sytem, it was my first that I played and begun to play RPG. I don't think that i'm the only one. I would say that Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is one of the milestones in RPG games and one of the best selling fantasy worlds - this is definitely not a niche product.

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No illusions please. WFRP is a niche product in a niche industry full of nerds. At least it was till 2nd edition.

I would not wonder if WFRP2 was more or less only of secondary importance only to get access to the Warhammer 40k rpg and the more profitable hunting grounds there. 2e was already a "lich" (or more a "lich king")  in the moment they aquired it and so it was an easy decision to just ditch it for 3rd ed with more money potential.

 

 

 

 

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PzVIE said:

In another post, NezziR wrote (taken completely out of context)

"especially with a small niche group like Warhammer players"

Are we really a niche? I can't belive that FFG is buying a license (which surely doesn't come cheap) to sell to a niche - this company is way beyond that. I know from some "smaller" Eurogames companies that a game which sells 10,000 copies is considered successful. How many copies of the v2 rulebook have been sold? More than 10,000? How many copies of v3 will be printed? A quick look at all those RPGs out there on the market doesn't give me the impression that WFRP is a niche product - or am I wrong here?

Roleplaying as a whole is a niche industry, roleplaying is not a mainstream hobby. Further more D&D sits in the middle of the RPG world consistantly outselling all other games, I do not have exact figures but I seem to remember figures of about 40-50% of all RPG sales being D&D sales. Because of the dominance of D&D other RPG's are often designed to run a specific style of gameplay this in turn appeals to a certain type of player. For example Exalted is different because you begin the game as an awesome chosen one rather than beginning as some dweeb and end up becoming a living god. WFRPv1 was designed to run CoC style investigations in a gothic sword and sorcery setting. 

PzVIE said:

And if we are a niche - is that a good thing?

A niche is a very good thing if you enjoy the type of game that specific niche caters to. On the otherhand if you do not enjoy the style of play the niche best fits you probably will not like that game.

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By RPG industry standards no, Warhammer players are not 'niche'. In fact they are one of the largest groups in the industry.

The big dog is, of course, D&D. After that it is a toss-up between Warhammer fans (I'm including 40k fans in this) and White Wolf games. At them moment Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader seem to be outselling the World of Darkness books, but the nWoD is currently in a bit of a slump while DH has probably just passed its high point and RT is (obviously) just beginning its period of boom sales. After that it's a bit of a scrap for 4th place, pretty much going to whoever has the most recent release.

Obviously WFRP taken on its own isn't much of a player at the moment, but that's because it hasn't had a serious release in years. When WFRP v2 came out it was easily one of the biggest games out there, with a new release every month and huge sales. When v3 comes out it'll almost assuredly be in the top 5, outselling quite possibly outselling White Wolf.

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I agree with Macd21.  RPGs as a whole are a niche sort of gaming, but within RPG-dom WFRP is more one of the big players rather than what I would call a 'niche' product.  First, because it is well-known and has lots of players.  Second, because the genre and setting are not ecletic.  Obscure titles, like Hunter Planet, are more of a niche RPG product.  A wildly different setting and small player base.  I'd probably even throw Toon into the niche game category, although it is a bit more well-known and popular that it's pushes the line.

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PzVIE said:

And if we are a niche - is that a good thing?

Playing make-believe games around a table while rolling dice or pretending that you are the general of a to soldier army and using a rulebook to conduct battles with other "generals" toy soldier armies makes you, by default, belonging to a niche group.

If it is a good or a bad thing, well let's put things in perspective shall we:

Niche groups like this one play make believe games and toysoldier battles no matter how old the members of that group are. Non-niche groups (i.e the majority) spends a gross amount of their lives watching so called "reality tv"... Meaning that if you ask them what they're doing, the only response would be: "Im watching reality"...

Now im not going to be a partial ****** here and ascribe the two activities with my personal views on which one is good and which one is bad, so I'll let you be the judge.

Playing with toy soldiers and play make believe with dice, is it a "good thing" compared to "watching reality"? happy.gif

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While I think WFRP is the best Fantasy roleplaying game available, I think it's a niche market within the already niche market that RPGs in general are. Among all RPGs, D&D is obviously king of the hill, but you've got to be kidding yourself to think that WFRP is anywhere near 2nd. I have no clue what actual sales are, but there's far more chatter about GURPS, BRP, Savage Worlds, nWoD, and other games than there is of Warhammer RPGs. Rogue Trader, being just released is currently seeing a spike, but only time will tell if it has staying power.

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A niche by definition is a perfectly suited status/place/activity.  I would say that WFRP is definitely a niche and it is the best one in the entire multiverse...to me.

I am Callidon...I am a happy WFRP niche resident.

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mac40k said:

While I think WFRP is the best Fantasy roleplaying game available, I think it's a niche market within the already niche market that RPGs in general are. Among all RPGs, D&D is obviously king of the hill, but you've got to be kidding yourself to think that WFRP is anywhere near 2nd. I have no clue what actual sales are, but there's far more chatter about GURPS, BRP, Savage Worlds, nWoD, and other games than there is of Warhammer RPGs. Rogue Trader, being just released is currently seeing a spike, but only time will tell if it has staying power.

DnD is obviously the biggest, no contest. Normally 2nd place would be held by nWoD, but as I mentioned earlier they are in a slump at the moment. The Warhammer lines usually hold 3rd place, but Dark Heresy alone has been 2nd place for a while now, with nWoD in 3rd. The other lines don't come anywhere close to the top 3.

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Ludlov Thadwin of Sevenpiecks said:

What about Star Wars? Just wondering, does anyone know how popular it is?

Hard to say. I'd guess not very at the moment. Was reasonably popular while the films were being released. Are books still being released for it?

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Varnias Tybalt said:

Playing with toy soldiers and play make believe with dice, is it a "good thing" compared to "watching reality"? happy.gif

Hear- HEAR. Soul less fake TV really hits bottom. Why be passified by somthing that really sucks, when you can use your imagination in the creative and entertaning company of others. I don't believe that you get your social skills improved by watching fake crap...

There!  I said it demonio.gif

And after all I think Jay owes us a session demo video gran_risa.gif

 

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So basically, judging from all your answers I have the impression I am a niche, but in my niche, as a warhammer player, I'm not top of the pops but sure one of the main players (ha, that's a good one) ...?

I would still would love to know the numbers of produced / sold books of v2.

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macd21 said:

Ludlov Thadwin of Sevenpiecks said:

 

What about Star Wars? Just wondering, does anyone know how popular it is?

 

 

Hard to say. I'd guess not very at the moment. Was reasonably popular while the films were being released. Are books still being released for it?

Yes, new books are still being released for Saga edition. But I'm probably derailing the thread so I'll stop here:)

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