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Let's get Fantasy Flight to start selling card packs.

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Basic human decency was perhaps hyperbole.  Apologies.  My point was simply that, as someone who has bought multiple copies of all expansion ships, it is unfortunate that there is not a matching reasonable supply of all of the upgrade cards.  I have at least 4 times as many copies of defense liaison as XI7 turbolasers.  Can FFG do this? yes.  Does distributing the cards in this way make FFG more money? probably yes.  Is it a nice thing to do to their customers though? no.  

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It does indeed.

I bought the theoretical maximum of every possible combination up to 400 point builds. That meant getting 9 nebs, 6 mc 30s, 6 packs of fighters , etc

I'm insane....but in this instance a card pack would have lost them a lot of revenue ;)

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Basic human decency was perhaps hyperbole.  Apologies.  My point was simply that, as someone who has bought multiple copies of all expansion ships, it is unfortunate that there is not a matching reasonable supply of all of the upgrade cards.  I have at least 4 times as many copies of defense liaison as XI7 turbolasers.  Can FFG do this? yes.  Does distributing the cards in this way make FFG more money? probably yes.  Is it a nice thing to do to their customers though? no.  

Here's the thing though: you know where to find the XI7 Turbolasers card.  If you want more of them, buy the packs.  Or, alternatively, proxy the cards (if you're not doing tournaments) or go on the Bay of E, or find another alternative.  Or, just wait until they get released again in another expansion.

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I would also suggest that much of what I was going to say has already been said, but I would add the following:

 

  • The best way to address this is the inclusion of the "desired" cards in future packs as well. TRC with something in wave 3 as well as the MC30c, for example. That keeps the focus on the single all-in package that FFG already has but distributes the opportunity beyond one ship.
  • Another option that I wish FFG would explore would be a wave bundle (e.g. every single ship in the wave and multiples of the cards). I don't know how that would work in terms of packaging / effort, but I feel like it would be something that a lot of their completionist customers would go for without also blowing up their current strategy.

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I'm more or less fine with how they do upgrade cards, but I was a little annoyed that the only place to find either TRC's or APT's was the MC30, as I simply cannot find a reason to own more than three.

I guess what I'm really asking for is someone to tell me its ok to buy more, so I can externalize the shame.

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I'm more or less fine with how they do upgrade cards, but I was a little annoyed that the only place to find either TRC's or APT's was the MC30, as I simply cannot find a reason to own more than three.

I guess what I'm really asking for is someone to tell me its ok to buy more, so I can externalize the shame.

You know you want it  :D

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My suggestion would be:

1)Get credit card with rewards points.

2)buy all the ship packs you need to get every card you need.

3)sell everything you don't need on eBay or other site.

4) pay credit card bill within the month with profits from eBay sales, so no interest payment

5) spend reward points on family day out to keep wife on side.

Free cards low cost, family days out.........

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... I was a little annoyed that the only place to find either TRC's or APT's was the MC30...

 

TRCs might end up in a later wave, but I'm certain we'll see APTs again. They're super-thematic, and ACMs ended up in, like, three different boxes, I think (Core, VSD, GSD).

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I'm more or less fine with how they do upgrade cards, but I was a little annoyed that the only place to find either TRC's or APT's was the MC30, as I simply cannot find a reason to own more than three.

I guess what I'm really asking for is someone to tell me its ok to buy more, so I can externalize the shame.

Go buy some more MC30s - stop this gamershaming! You can never have too many minis...

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Actually, that's one thing for all of you complaining about the exclusivity of certain cards:

 

FFG are quite good for releasing upgrades that match the ship expansion in which they're included, hence Ordnance Upgrades for Gladiators, Defensive and Offensive upgrades for ISDs, and so on. So, if they come up with a new card for a new Wave, they limit their options.

 

APTs being a good example, sure, you could put them on a Raider, I guess, but as an anti-fighter platform I can see why they didn't. But they can't put them on either of the ISD or Home One expansions, because they can't take the upgrade. And, as Drasnighta said earlier in this thread, TRCs only work for ships with Turbolasers as defense tokens, hence none of the other Wave 2 ships bar the MC30 could take them.

 

The X17 could arguably have gone in a few different ships, but then, so could plenty of other upgrades, like Advanced Projectors. Ultimately, I don't think they're doing such a bad job of keeping the upgrade matching the theme of the expansion.

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I've never found my fleets at any disadvantage if you have 1 expansion of each Wave.

 

It's obvious that some cards are meant to be used by the other faction (design as well as effect) so FFG promotes cross selling without saying it. But overall, no redundancy on some specific cards has never been a problem for me, without shooting myself in the foot competitively.

 

Plus, I don't really like spamming ship builds, so there's that :P

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My suggestion would be:

1)Get credit card with rewards points.

2)buy all the ship packs you need to get every card you need.

3)sell everything you don't need on eBay or other site.

4) pay credit card bill within the month with profits from eBay sales, so no interest payment

5) spend reward points on family day out to keep wife on side.

Free cards low cost, family days out.........

 

Take note of that wife thing...very clever!

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One word - PROFIT

You mean the loss of profit right?

Think on it, they sell ships with cards so they have money invested in the production of those models.

Now let's say they make a card pack. Now they need new packaging, then they need to market, ship, and supply said card packs. On top of all that, it will directly compete with their own line of models which will decrease sales on said models so in the end they lose money.

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That's a very fair point, but you could assemble several 400-pt fleets for Armada and still have change left over for the cost of a modern Space Marine army. Not saying that's a valid excuse, but... y'know.

Although having said that, buy buying a single codex I have access to all the rules and upgrades my army can use. I don't need to buy two codexes if two of my squads want to use the same upgrade, unlike Armada where if I want two ships to use the same upgrade, I need to purchase that upgrade twice.

Personally, I have no intention of ever playing in a sanctioned FFG event, precisely because of the way they require all official nonsense. I'm more than happy for my opponent to proxy cards, or even use a written/printed roster (which is a FAR superior way to play, IMO) and the requirement to have 7 copies of TRC if you want to have 7 ships using it is silly and I won't support that. Besides, 400 point games are too small!

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Wow, I think I hit a nerve. I started by buying 2 of the starter sets so I'm never buying the ships in that as expansions. I have spent $40-50 on E-bay buying cards I wanted. The most recent being another redundant shield. My m-80 and M-30 had them and my AF2 felt left out. I do buy ship expansions, but it's the ships I want knowing I can pick up cards online later. All I'm saying is I'd rather give that money to FFG then to a guy with a cottage industry canalizing stuff bought cheep to break up. If they don't want to do it, I'll keep buying cards on e-bay 

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That's a very fair point, but you could assemble several 400-pt fleets for Armada and still have change left over for the cost of a modern Space Marine army. Not saying that's a valid excuse, but... y'know.

Although having said that, buy buying a single codex I have access to all the rules and upgrades my army can use. I don't need to buy two codexes if two of my squads want to use the same upgrade, unlike Armada where if I want two ships to use the same upgrade, I need to purchase that upgrade twice.

Personally, I have no intention of ever playing in a sanctioned FFG event, precisely because of the way they require all official nonsense. I'm more than happy for my opponent to proxy cards, or even use a written/printed roster (which is a FAR superior way to play, IMO) and the requirement to have 7 copies of TRC if you want to have 7 ships using it is silly and I won't support that. Besides, 400 point games are too small!

 

 

I completely agree.

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Although having said that, buy buying a single codex I have access to all the rules and upgrades my army can use. ...

Your specific army, maybe, but all the options your models can use for any X faction/chapter/even company (looking at you, Clan Roukan): it hasn't been that way since the data slate slide became a 'thing'.  The whole thing is the same in a different guise: buy X to get option Y for play style Z.

 

 So long as I get more plastic to justify me buying rules, I'm fine with how it works.  It's not that I wouldn't buy a compendium list, or a card pack, but I'd far rather spend a little more for a neat little plastic ship that I can cut up or paint to my black heart's desire.  After all, 5 Nebulon B's means 5 chances at making Nebulon B2's, or Nebulon K-prototypes, or sticking together to make an ultra sooper speshul converted Assault Frigate.  Having those XI7's is just an extra 'thing' that I'm probably not going to use in the first place.  Why no, I'm not a CCGer :P

 

Though the printed cards with some sort of flippy 'exhausted' counter coin is pretty great so it can cut down on set up time.

Edited by Vykes

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What I think would be a simple and fair solution,

 

A reward system, every single pack you buy from FFG has a tiny white proof of purchase punch out card, use the cards as a trade in system, redeem the number against your account, once you hit number <X> you get <X> amount of duplicate cards of your choice.

 

FFG don't lose out, you can only get these numbers from  buying their stock, and people who spend on FFG get a nice thanks.

 

Because lets face it, yes they are a company, and yes they are here to make a profit, considering spending £20-£30 on a product just to get one card out of it, is ridiculous, I've done it, and I am sure I am not alone, does not mean I have to be happy about the fact. 

Same with fighter packs, instead of 2/2/2/2 why not 4/4 or even 8 of one type? blatant forcing to buy things you do not need, to get things you do, and this is what is questionable, I love spending money on things I want, and I love Armada, I do not love knowing I am being bent over a barrel, big difference.

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I understand why they wouldn't do this, especially from their experience with X-Wing.  The price difference between the two games makes this "buy models to get cards" strategy less viable, however. 

 

In X-Wing, you might have to spend $15 to get a card you want.  Maybe ~$25 to get one of the larger expansion packs which comes with 2 copies of a card (Most Wanted for BTL-A4).  In contrast, if you want Flight Controllers in Armada, you're paying ~$35-40 for 1 card.  Yes, you get more cards than just Flight Controllers, but most of those cards you already have from other kits and you only really care about 1 or 2 of them.

 

I'm curious to see how FFG gets around this limitation.

They don't want to get around the situation (limitation) as they are greedy corporation hell bent on screwing the poorer players out of the fun. Luckily, I am not poor so they aren't really screwing me. They will never, and I mean never do anything significant pro consumer other than make good games. They don't care about the little guy or retail stores making profit off Armada. My local store carries Armada but flat out refuses to encourage any play in the store because no one can afford to pay $50 for and ISD let alone buy two of something to get an extra card. Just do what I do and go on eBay and pay $6 for flight controllers. It sucks but there for you but there is nothing you can do to fantasy flight that will ever matter. Writing them a letter...that gave them a good laugh for sure. Boycott p, those never work. Only is if a business model starts failing do they go after the market they were not aimed at before. Just photocopy the proxies and play with them instead if you don't want to pay $6 for a small piece of thin cardboard. You'll never get a pack of cards etc. ever so decide now if your in for a pound after being in for a penny. I got $700+ dollar invested and had to buy extra boosted coms, expanded hangers, EMCs, X-17, advanced projectors, apfligjt controllers ,etc. it sucks but it is pay to play baby p....pay to play. Better than GW...so as Bill Murray would say from caddy shack we got that going for us.

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Wow, I think I hit a nerve. I started by buying 2 of the starter sets so I'm never buying the ships in that as expansions. I have spent $40-50 on E-bay buying cards I wanted. The most recent being another redundant shield. My m-80 and M-30 had them and my AF2 felt left out. I do buy ship expansions, but it's the ships I want knowing I can pick up cards online later. All I'm saying is I'd rather give that money to FFG then to a guy with a cottage industry canalizing stuff bought cheep to break up. If they don't want to do it, I'll keep buying cards on e-bay

Crap man go to the trade section on the forum for redundant shield, people like me got way too many of those. Just be happy there are no C-3PO costing you $25 yet like in X-wing. Thank god they can't package the cards to huge ships in Armada....well until the Death Star with emperor palpatine for $400. :-). I preordered two ...I heard they tend to blow up for some reason. Edited by AdmiralNelson

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I'd much rather see card packs of *new* upgrades and commanders.

 

This is a great idea and one that I would like to support. You could easily have "captured ships" where you have the ships of the other faction retrofitted and crewed. So you get new ship cards and bases but no new models are required.  New upgrade cards could be added and even new squadron cards to add more characters to the squadrons we have.

 

Something like this could use their print on demand process and mitigate the long production and lead in times the game has. Sort of a wave 2.5, 3.5 etc.....

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I get that it's frustrating that we have to spend more than we'd like for an upgrade or two, but I don't feel like FFG's system is egregious. I may have to buy an extra ship or two beyond what I otherwise would, but that also opens up other strategies and potentially fun things to try out.

 

If any other company was doing Armada, they would probably be putting out packs of random minis like monsterpocalypse or clix games, and have a garbage ruleset built around sustaining powercreep as long as possible until the competitive community dies. I'm grateful for what we've got with Armada.

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