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Let's get Fantasy Flight to start selling card packs.

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I've sent them an E-mail about this, but haven't heard back. Maybe if they hear from more people it will get their attention. I buy the cards I need online but would rather have that money go back to Fantasy Flight. I could see them selling by product they normally come with or type of card. I recently bought a Raymus Antilles card because I have two Nebulons and I'm not going to buy another, If I could have bought a card pack I would rather buy directly from fantasy flight

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I predict this will never happen.  

 

 BTW If you buy a Nebulon there's other stuff you get.   XI7's for example.

 

EDIT: Wait wait.... Raymus didn't come with the Nebulon.  He's in the CR-90 pack.   Have you bought a CR-90 expansion yet?    IF so you are missing morethan just Raymus.   You're also missing Mon Mothma, the Tantive IV title, and Jaina's Light title.   Also CR-90s are amazing in an Ackbar list.   So if you had a typo and meant to say that you have two CR-90s already, I'd be even more curious.   Did you buy two core sets?    If so, how does someone buy two core sets, yet baulk at the idea of a 9 dollar expansion with great cards? 

Edited by Crabbok

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I understand why they wouldn't do this, especially from their experience with X-Wing.  The price difference between the two games makes this "buy models to get cards" strategy less viable, however. 

 

In X-Wing, you might have to spend $15 to get a card you want.  Maybe ~$25 to get one of the larger expansion packs which comes with 2 copies of a card (Most Wanted for BTL-A4).  In contrast, if you want Flight Controllers in Armada, you're paying ~$35-40 for 1 card.  Yes, you get more cards than just Flight Controllers, but most of those cards you already have from other kits and you only really care about 1 or 2 of them.

 

I'm curious to see how FFG gets around this limitation.

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FFG has built its Miniatures Games business model around repeat custom - they are relying on the average customer buying - I dunno, probably around 1.5 x each box - assuming your "average" customer will get one of each expansion and 2 of their favourites. Of course, some people get more, some get less, but they will have a solid idea of their customer base and what they need that customer base to purchase in order to keep a game profitable.

 

For example - I have only bought one of the core sets. My friend bought two. My friend has bought one of every expansion, and an extra one of the MC30, the AF2, the GSD and the fighter packs. I have bought one of each Imperial pack, plus an extra GSD, but then I'm fairly reserved.

 

Look at the make-up of each expansion - you get the ship, you get the ship-specific and unique components, plus a few desirable "generic" components. This blend means that the product appeals to both dedicated collectors and impulse buyers - "Do I really want another one of these? Ooh, you get X17s in it..." and so on. Basically, with the exception of a small number of Unique upgrade cards, all the components in a ship expansion - from the ship itself to the cards and tokens - have value on repeat purchase.

 

ANYWAY, the issue with card packs is - how the hell do you assemble them? Do you include multiples of basic generic upgrades? Maybe, but then you reduce the utility of the ship expansions. Do you include multiple unique cards? Maybe, but then you reduce the repeat-value of the card pack. Do you include a mix? If so, what's the appeal of a bunch of cards compared to getting a nice shiny ship with a bunch of cards?

 

And all the while, one thing is constant: you're cannibalising the sales of your Ship Expansions.

 

Things like extra dice packs and the additional manoeuvre tool have a place in the product range - they're useful to have, they're high margin, and there's enough of a price difference between a £7 pack of dice and a £70 Core Set that neither product affects the sales of the other. If you'll impulse-buy another Core Set just 'cause you need more dice or a manoeuvre tool, then you'll impulse-buy it anyway for more ships or extra obstacles or because you hate having money.

 

Card Packs sound like a great idea to a consumer, and after a few more Waves of expansions they could well have their place, possibly. But at the end of the day, most people don't need more than one or two X17s at a time - you simply can't fit enough ships with big enough batteries and Turbolaser upgrades into 400 points - so getting a Nebulon B expansion for that one card isn't such a big commitment. And if you're willing to pay, say, £12 for a pack of cards, you're definitely in a position to pay £15 for a Nebulon B pack.

Edited by jhox

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I don't need them to make card packs, but I think a more even distribution of the non-faction specific upgrades would be great.  I've bought a whole bunch of Armada at this point, and still end up with only 2 flight controllers, 2 XI7s and 3 TRCs.  I don't need card packs, what I do need is for them to reprint some of these 1-of cards into future ship expansion packs.  I'll buy the ships, in multiples too, I just want to have a reasonable distribution of cards to go with them.  Does it make FFG more money to make people buy 7 MC-30s to get 7 copies of TRC for their corvette swarm?  Maybe.  Does it pass the 'basic human decency' test though?  I don't think so.  

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Does it make FFG more money to make people buy 7 MC-30s to get 7 copies of TRC for their corvette swarm?  Maybe.  Does it pass the 'basic human decency' test though?  I don't think so.  

 

I broadly agree with your point about making rarer cards more available - and in fairness, with only two waves so far (and with TRC being a second-Wave release) there's plenty of room for them to do that.

 

But let's just get one thing clear here - we're talking about playing games with toy spaceships. Don't get me wrong, I love Armada, I'd marry it if it were legal (how would that even work?). But we're not talking about essential supplies that people need to live a fulfilling life - we are talking about a luxury good at a time when many can't even afford to regularly pay their rent. Not only is FFG a profitable business, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED IN YOUR LIFE for 7 TRCs, beyond your own manufactured need.

 

And seriously, how bloody often are you going to play that seven-Corvette list? If you're playing friendlies, just proxy the card. If you're playing Tournaments, PICK A F***ING LIST YOU CAN AFFORD. Besides, by definition, YOU ALREADY BOUGHT SEVEN F***ING CORVETTES, WHY IS IT SUDDENLY TOO MUCH FOR YOU TO BUY ANOTHER FOUR MC30S?

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Sorry, honestly, play the game how you want, but don't expect FFG to change their business model because you want to run a very specific list that a very small proportion, like, a miniscule proportion, of the player base have any interest in playing. They're here to provide you what you need to play games of toy spaceships, in exchange for money. They've done that, they don't owe you anything for which you haven't already paid.

 

Capitals in previous post added for entertainment purposes. Honestly, I don't really care that much either way.

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To clarify, I don't have any interest in tournament play, I'm totally cool with proxying the necessary duplicates of any cards that I don't have enough copies of, and have no special attachment to the corvette swarm strategy (I've never even played a game with it).  The corvette swarm is just the most extreme example of rare card duplication need so it was a convenient example to make my point.

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To clarify, I don't have any interest in tournament play, I'm totally cool with proxying the necessary duplicates of any cards that I don't have enough copies of, and have no special attachment to the corvette swarm strategy (I've never even played a game with it).  The corvette swarm is just the most extreme example of rare card duplication need so it was a convenient example to make my point.

 

Nah, that's fair dude. But it's still awfully strong to say that FFG are failing a "'basic human decency' test" - if you have, say, one of each of the expansions, you have more than enough you need to play plenty of fun, varied games of Armada, which I feel is reasonably fair.

 

It's not like Warhammer 40,000, where you actually do have to buy an awful lot of miniatures (at a premium price) to reach the generally-accepted 1500-pt army. In Armada, and X-Wing, you can hit the standard game size with just one big expansion, or a couple of smaller ones. Indeed, I'd argue that with all of the tokens, dice, cards, and rules references, plus regular FAQs, Erratas, and updates to Tournament rules, FFG offer more support for the game, per currency-unit-investment per player, than most other companies.

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The corvette swarm is just the most extreme example of rare card duplication need so it was a convenient example to make my point.

If your point is that you'd have to spend a lot of money to get that list working. Yes you're right. If however your point is that FFG is somehow immoral or unethical then your point is excessively flawed.

Basic human decency is not a test any luxury product should ever go though.

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I don't need them to make card packs, but I think a more even distribution of the non-faction specific upgrades would be great.  I've bought a whole bunch of Armada at this point, and still end up with only 2 flight controllers, 2 XI7s and 3 TRCs.  I don't need card packs, what I do need is for them to reprint some of these 1-of cards into future ship expansion packs.  I'll buy the ships, in multiples too, I just want to have a reasonable distribution of cards to go with them.  Does it make FFG more money to make people buy 7 MC-30s to get 7 copies of TRC for their corvette swarm?  Maybe.  Does it pass the 'basic human decency' test though?  I don't think so.  

I think you're confused.  if you're playing in a tournament, and you want to run that list, the onus is wholly on you to finance it.  FFG does not owe you cheap, multiply-available cards (although they do have a habit of putting cards in multiple releases).  Armada is a luxury, and the argument that they are somehow lack decency isn't even wrong.  After all, no one is making the same argument for Ferraris, and they at least have some utility.

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They should at least make all the upgrades available across one faction (there should be TRCs in a imperial expansion somewhere).

 

Not even GW makes you buy Eldar models so that you can slap heavy bolters on you tactical marines (yet).

 

 

No, but in this specific case, there is only one Imperial Model that can currently use TRCs...

 

Well, rather...  There's 2...  But you need another upgrade Card to use it...  And that comes with only one of the others...  And its a unique card...  So it can only be used once anyway...

 

 

...  The implication being, when there is an Imperial Ship which, as a class, can take them, they may well be included...  But until then, it is certainly considered something "Off the wall", so yes, you have to pay for uniqueness.

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Not even GW makes you buy Eldar models so that you can slap heavy bolters on you tactical marines (yet).

 

That's a very fair point, but you could assemble several 400-pt fleets for Armada and still have change left over for the cost of a modern Space Marine army. Not saying that's a valid excuse, but... y'know.

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