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Danish

Toughen up The City?

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Greetings all. New here (obviously) but have always enjoyed Talisman ever since the 2nd edition. 4th hasn't been a letdown either. Well, except for one area...

Has anyone come up with a decent way to make it a little more difficult to go through The City? Considering the substantial rewards which are relatively easy to obtain, it would be nice to have something impede a player's rampant stockpiling of tools and toys.

Edited by Danish

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I agree with you. Totally. My biggest gripe with the City expansion is too much reward and not enough risk. I think that there should be a mini set off about 20 to 30 cards to add to the City deck that adds a little more peril. How about a card that causes everybody in the City when the card is drawn to lose all of their gold or two lives? Or a card that closes all shops for two or three rounds? Or a Dishonest Shopkeeper Follwer card that you must take that forces you to pay double the price at all shops until you pay him ten Gold. Pretty much anything to make venturing into the Ci

ty a little more dangerous.

Edited by Quartzquiz

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Well if they weren't so obvious, just adding cards from 2nd edition would help.

Even the watches are pointless, since they can be evaded.

if it wasn't a whole boxed set, I'd consider buying another city and marking up the cards for new challenges.

hmmmm...

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The only fix is the one I have instituted: Take out the City expansion.  We don't need a medieval DisneyWorld, especially if the Harbinger or Firelands expansions are being used.  What, only the City Gate was burned by the Ifrit and the rest of the place is totally untouched?!?!

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The only fix is the one I have instituted: Take out the City expansion. We don't need a medieval DisneyWorld, especially if the Harbinger or Firelands expansions are being used. What, only the City Gate was burned by the Ifrit and the rest of the place is totally untouched?!?!

Haven't added the Firelands to our regular use, but that's an option.

Was actually thinking of buying the second city set and adding just its bad cards to the other. And no evading the watches. Could even take out some of the freebies like shortcut and black market

Edited by Danish

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Holy crap! I just sorted the cards and more than a THIRD are freebies or tremendous discounts. Broken sword, broken armour, loyal companion, free samples, shortcut, merchants' quarter...

And then you get the junk traveling bazaar and trading days.

Looks like I'm culling some out and buying another deck. And maybe even editing those a bit.

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I and my group are extremely happy with the city expansion as it stands, but would also be happy if FFG were to down the line, do an expansion that adds cards to very deck, similar to what they did for Arkham horror - in doing so they could satisfy a broader range of players.

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Not sure that'll happen.  Their best chance to add more City related cards might have been Deep Realms.  Too late now.  They're already on to post Harbinger dystopian chaos.  Next might actually be the Timescape everyone's been crying for.

 

I just had someone suggest adding an entry fee at the city gate.  Definitely an option. 

 

But if you think about it,  it's not that hard or expensive to buy a second set and add at least part of it in.  You can even edit the new cards to charge more for some items or give less on certain others.

 

Will post an update once I've added and played the new setup.

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Not sure that'll happen.  Their best chance to add more City related cards might have been Deep Realms.  Too late now.  They're already on to post Harbinger dystopian chaos.  Next might actually be the Timescape everyone's been crying for.

 

I just had someone suggest adding an entry fee at the city gate.  Definitely an option. 

 

But if you think about it,  it's not that hard or expensive to buy a second set and add at least part of it in.  You can even edit the new cards to charge more for some items or give less on certain others.

 

Will post an update once I've added and played the new setup.

I would say the majority opinion is that the Timescape should never be included as it was in 2nd edition, as it was generally considered to be a whoring of Talisman out to the Warhammer 40k universe. It doesn't fit in at all and never did. Perhaps a similar separate board concept executed in a completely different theme, but not the travesty that was Timescape 2nd edition.

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Nobody in my games has bothered with wandering around the City region for any real length of time. Sure, there are cheap goodies to be found, but getting stats raised is harder in there. Most often the City is a quick stop-over, once you have gold, quick shopping spree and out via Wharf to the Middle Region. Maybe two laps is the longest, at which point, having gained nothing in stats, it was screw this, off to the Dungeon, where getting stat per turn or two is more the norm than the exception (as in the City).

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I did this to make City harder - removed the board.

I replaced shop spaces with homemade denizens deck.

Added rule that you can draw city cards at city, village, tavern and castle instead of resolving normal instructions. 

I left good cards in the city deck because now you have to choose between drawing and another beneficial effect of the space.

 

So far in games it works very well, and even has additional benefit of making alchemist not broken again.

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city is decent in the very beginning for some chars, soon as monsters present an opportunity to gain strength/craft other decks present more options. About half the cards in city is inconsequental or affect random players, most of the cards that do offer good rewards require gold to benefit from, there are no spaces with more than 1 card to draw.

 

It's a safe place hard to get negative result of a turn but quite often you'll find yourself doing nothing for several turns.

 

if your playgroup is under the impression that the city is generally a better place to be than the others, and not just if you happen to have low combatvalues and some gold to spend, you may want to add a little disincentive, but if your goal is balance you should add reward if you add risk to the city deck, cause it's quite balanced as is.

Edited by Rawsugar

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Not sure that'll happen.  Their best chance to add more City related cards might have been Deep Realms.  Too late now.  They're already on to post Harbinger dystopian chaos.  Next might actually be the Timescape everyone's been crying for.

 

I just had someone suggest adding an entry fee at the city gate.  Definitely an option. 

 

But if you think about it,  it's not that hard or expensive to buy a second set and add at least part of it in.  You can even edit the new cards to charge more for some items or give less on certain others.

 

Will post an update once I've added and played the new setup.

I would say the majority opinion is that the Timescape should never be included as it was in 2nd edition, as it was generally considered to be a whoring of Talisman out to the Warhammer 40k universe. It doesn't fit in at all and never did. Perhaps a similar separate board concept executed in a completely different theme, but not the travesty that was Timescape 2nd edition.

 

not saying I want it (though I'm always open to whatever FFG tosses our way)  just that half of the crowd seems to keep asking for it.

 

 

Nobody in my games has bothered with wandering around the City region for any real length of time. Sure, there are cheap goodies to be found, but getting stats raised is harder in there. Most often the City is a quick stop-over, once you have gold, quick shopping spree and out via Wharf to the Middle Region. Maybe two laps is the longest, at which point, having gained nothing in stats, it was screw this, off to the Dungeon, where getting stat per turn or two is more the norm than the exception (as in the City).

You using the 2nd or 4th edition?  'cause there are freebies and cut-rate items all through the deck.  Feral pet,  faithful follower, broken sword,  shortcuts...  Granted you do need gold, but considering how big the other decks have gotten with trinkets and junk,  it's not that hard to get.  Try being the Tavern Maid or the Bounty Hunter.  I had 28 gold the last game we played.

 

I did this to make City harder - removed the board.

I replaced shop spaces with homemade denizens deck.

Added rule that you can draw city cards at city, village, tavern and castle instead of resolving normal instructions. 

I left good cards in the city deck because now you have to choose between drawing and another beneficial effect of the space.

 

So far in games it works very well, and even has additional benefit of making alchemist not broken again.

interesting approach.  and at least it frees up a corner of the table for someone to actually play.

 

city is decent in the very beginning for some chars, soon as monsters present an opportunity to gain strength/craft other decks present more options. About half the cards in city is inconsequental or affect random players, most of the cards that do offer good rewards require gold to benefit from, there are no spaces with more than 1 card to draw.

 

It's a safe place hard to get negative result of a turn but quite often you'll find yourself doing nothing for several turns.

 

if your playgroup is under the impression that the city is generally a better place to be than the others, and not just if you happen to have low combatvalues and some gold to spend, you may want to add a little disincentive, but if your goal is balance you should add reward if you add risk to the city deck, cause it's quite balanced as is.

Using the Highlands,  it's so very easy to gain gold now. 

and the city being just two real rows of moving spaces,  turns there with little damaging consequences  might delay,  but it doesn't seriously punish the visitor.  THAT'S what's missing,  the danger of being there too long or too often.  Even if you do miss a chance to buy something on one go around,  there's nothing major to threaten you going again.

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ye i get that that's what you want to add. my point is that if you want the city to be as good a place to adventure if you add risk you need to add reward to tweak/take out all those cards that dont benefit your character.

 

Personally im fine w city being low risk, low reward. I only go there if i chance upon some gold early on and dont increase combatpower at same rate, like i said, if enemies are beatable the reward outside city outweigh the risks enough to make the other decks preferable to city, especially if gold is scarce

 

talisman is a race. wasting time starting a lottery you dont even win IS a risk

Edited by Rawsugar

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Hi all,

 

I was aghast at how good the City was and changed some of the cards. I beefed up some of the monsters (e.g. Heretic Priest Cra 2 -> 4), made it tougher to get goodies (e.g. Black Market 1-4 bad, 5-6 good) and stopped evading the Watch from being a free choice (you have to bribe them: pay 1G to evade). I also increased the prices of some items and changed the Armoury objects a lot:
(The ridiculous) Flail: roll 2 dice and *use the higher result* to determine your attack roll.
Battleaxe: +2 Str [armour ability stays as is]
Bow: Don't have to pay. Roll 1 die. 1-3: add this to your attack score; 4-6 you miss.

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I will try to offer a slightly different angle on this topic as I see everyone sees the City as a place to easy to wander filled with with too many a reward.

 

I thought that too when the expansion came then I realized it is something completely different and much better. It is an expansion that lets everyone play the game as they want to, greatly reducing the randomness that had been Talisman before the City came and I will tell you why. Bear with me for a moment.

 

The best way to explain this is by realizing what we can achieve with the spaces provided with the expansion:

High Temple - well, this one is pretty useless, never used it once...

Academy - the first usable space, you got some Craft trophies that you dont need, or the opposite, you can trade them here, but this is still just a decent space to visit

Apothecary - well, who would buy potions if you got gold you can spend on much better things, right?

Sorcerer - on of the most important space in the City, are you a spellcycler stuck with two Counterspells or any other currently unusable spells? well, now you can finally get rid of these spells without waiting to have the opportunity to cast them..

Magic Emporium - one word, the Spellbook, that is probably the most powerful item to buy in the City, not the hated Flail

Soothsayer - that is the second place that you can use to speed up the game, if you desperately need Fate, no need to wander aimlessly around the Graveyard (provided you are Evil or Neutral)

Armory - well, I dont see why everyone considers the Flail such a powerful weapon, theres a much more powerful combination that is the Greataxe and the Bow, that is something to look for and worry, do the math, the Bow is not a weapon, still, you need the gold and the time to walk up there, in that time someone probably got something as good from the other Adventure decks

Menagerie - I think gold spent here is gold well spent, because all of them pets are strong as hell so this is a great space to spend gold, considering you get a new ability for just 2 gold

Stables - well...

Wharf - this is the third space that makes the game less random, again no need to wander around the table trying to hit the space you need, all it needs is time and 1 gold

Rogues Guils - the last space making the game more strategic, you need to become evil or good, or even neutral, which is almost impossible anywhere else? no need to try to hit the Mystic and roll the desired number

 

Because you decide if you visit the shop or not, you cut the chance out.

 

Really, I never had a game where someone runs through the city several times and gets the upper hand. It is always the players outside. You go to the city if you need something specific. You desperately need a spell or need to get rid of one, you need to get somewhere or you need to change alignment, or you just stuck with plenty of gold, then it is time to visit the city. If you visit the City just to try it, by the time you leave it, someone else will probably have gotten much stronger.

And with the Harbinger even the City can get dangerous. Ive had plenty of games where the Events from the Harbinger turned some of the shops to Craters, Bogs or whatnot. Or you can do that yourself with the proper Spell or Object.

 

Really, dont see the City as a kids version of Talisman, it is not that. If you know how to use it, it is a great place to play the game the way you want it if the circumstances hinder your progression.

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Well the last time we played, and granted this is just a stroke of pure luck, one person got dung sweeper, philosopher, broken shield crooked scales AND shortcut in one time through.

I think part of the issue is actually that the Adventure deck itself is now essentially three decks of cards. Depending on the amount of characters, it can take quite a bit of work to find all the good junk.

Edited by gatorcoffee

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I just straight up added some of my own inventions. Some event/stranger cards that spawn cards from the Deep Realms and Nether Realms decks into it. And my trolly monster 'Plague Lord' Encounter number 3 Enemy - Monster. Craft 8. Place the Plague Lord on the City Square, he cannot be discarded like other cards on the City Square. Whilst the Plague Lord is on the Board, no character can trade in trophies to gain Strength.

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And my trolly monster 'Plague Lord' Encounter number 3 Enemy - Monster. Craft 8. Place the Plague Lord on the City Square, he cannot be discarded like other cards on the City Square. Whilst the Plague Lord is on the Board, no character can trade in trophies to gain Strength.

I love that idea, FFG should make that card or something similar in the future.

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Yeah great. Let's make the game take as long humanly possible. How about an ongoing event where you need three talismans to get to the crown of command. That would be almost as much fun.

Edited by Joker2016

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Yeah great. Let's make the game take as long humanly possible. How about an ongoing event where you need three talismans to get to the crown of command. That would be almost as much fun.

I'm guessing that means that you are not a fan of using the Dragon expansion in such a way where after you pass through the Valley of Fire then you have to ascend the Dragon Tower?  :P

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Yeah great. Let's make the game take as long humanly possible. How about an ongoing event where you need three talismans to get to the crown of command. That would be almost as much fun.

What it does in effect is draw a lot of the characters into the same region, and you can always cast a spell that removes him

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Nobody in my games has bothered with wandering around the City region for any real length of time. Sure, there are cheap goodies to be found, but getting stats raised is harder in there. Most often the City is a quick stop-over, once you have gold, quick shopping spree and out via Wharf to the Middle Region. Maybe two laps is the longest, at which point, having gained nothing in stats, it was screw this, off to the Dungeon, where getting stat per turn or two is more the norm than the exception (as in the City).

 

My gaming group also doesn't bother going into the city so we removed that expansion. We found the expansions scale with difficulty from the Highlands (difficulty 8 monster), Woodlands (difficulty 10 monster), then Dungeon (difficulty 12 monster) in that order. The city is really misplaced and should probably be the highest difficulty area with a difficulty 14 monster at the end.

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