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Blail Blerg

For laughs: How boring exactly is a mirror double turret match?

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I recently flew 2 TLT Aggromech Ys and IG88c against 4 TLT ys, that was interesting. I had to kite with my Ys so only 1-2 could hit them, and I could focus fire one of them. One broke off to take IG but I was able to get behind it at the corner or the board with an asteroid in the corner spot so the Y couldn't get away, them I kept bumping it from the back and taking shots at r1 whenever I could.

 

On the other hand I one played round 1 of an escalation as Kenkirk vs Han or Chewie, that was boring as hell.

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I don't think any of the turret matches were very boring in the opening moves, but the endgames where you only had Fat Turrets left... Blegh. Just rolling dice and trying not to hit asteroids. And since they could get some pretty serious mitigation, those could go on for a long time.

Well yeah you need to hit three times to get one damage through.

But at least they fired at each other the really dull games involved fatties boosting away so the ship lasted to the end of the match.

 

It wasn't quite that simple, since Gunner was a factor in most cases. That meant one damage would usually get through each turn (Unless of course you were running Paul Heaver's Super Fat Han, which used R2-D2 to regenerate that damage each turn). But my point was it was just a dice fest. Wounded fat turret playing keep-away vs. 1-2 jousters was bad too, though. I think it came down to taste which endgame was worse.

 

I recently flew 2 TLT Aggromech Ys and IG88c against 4 TLT ys, that was interesting. I had to kite with my Ys so only 1-2 could hit them, and I could focus fire one of them. One broke off to take IG but I was able to get behind it at the corner or the board with an asteroid in the corner spot so the Y couldn't get away, them I kept bumping it from the back and taking shots at r1 whenever I could.

I recall a similar match I played when TLT was relatively new, although my opponent was running a more varried assortment of TLT carriers including a Y with the Stressbot and a ShockHWK. Certainly an interesting match.

Edited by Squark

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It's honestly one of the toughest X Wing matches to play.

 

Advantages are gained 1 HP or 1 Shot at a time.

 

The player to miss 1 shot or bump and lose that evade action/focus action first will lose.

 

If you play it a few times, you'll realize that there really are lots of intricate things within the match when you are desperately trying to gain that 1-2 hull advantage.

Sorry but that doesn't seem to make sense. Considering your variation in red dice attack is much more than 1 or 2 hits doesn't that seem like you're basically playing within a margin of luck here?

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It's honestly one of the toughest X Wing matches to play.

 

Advantages are gained 1 HP or 1 Shot at a time.

 

The player to miss 1 shot or bump and lose that evade action/focus action first will lose.

 

If you play it a few times, you'll realize that there really are lots of intricate things within the match when you are desperately trying to gain that 1-2 hull advantage.

Sorry but that doesn't seem to make sense. Considering your variation in red dice attack is much more than 1 or 2 hits doesn't that seem like you're basically playing within a margin of luck here?

I think it's more a matter of successfully creating an advantage in the early game by isolating the opponent, and then not screwing up as you eliminate the survivor.

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It's honestly one of the toughest X Wing matches to play.

 

Advantages are gained 1 HP or 1 Shot at a time.

 

The player to miss 1 shot or bump and lose that evade action/focus action first will lose.

 

If you play it a few times, you'll realize that there really are lots of intricate things within the match when you are desperately trying to gain that 1-2 hull advantage. 

Good luck missing a shot with your turret.

 

It's all out out-dicing and winning in the list building phase.

 

And if your opponent brings an outdated "jousting" squad you've autowon.

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It's honestly one of the toughest X Wing matches to play.

 

Advantages are gained 1 HP or 1 Shot at a time.

 

The player to miss 1 shot or bump and lose that evade action/focus action first will lose.

 

If you play it a few times, you'll realize that there really are lots of intricate things within the match when you are desperately trying to gain that 1-2 hull advantage.

Sorry but that doesn't seem to make sense. Considering your variation in red dice attack is much more than 1 or 2 hits doesn't that seem like you're basically playing within a margin of luck here?

I think it's more a matter of successfully creating an advantage in the early game by isolating the opponent, and then not screwing up as you eliminate the survivor.

 

 

Oh i do understand that there is limited space on the board, and if you can get better shots focus fire on 2v1 ship you're going to burn through one guy faster.  But past that?  

 

The question is what happens at near equal skill.  Actaully though, i must ask what the turret wing era tournament games were like, i didnt watch any of the worlds or nationals streams.  

 

Or as someone else has said, when you both gun for the escorts first, manage to kill both of them, and now its literally 1v1 turret vs turret.  Fat Han vs Kenkirk.  

Of course someone has probably taken a damage or two. but seriously.  What's the game like there? 

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On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!

Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.

Acewing in a nutshell where everybody is PS8+

 

*initiative roll*

-You go first!

===FLAWLESS VICTORY===

Yeah but if it was that simple, PS8 rebels could not compete with PS9 imperial aces. But they clearly can!

And i still prefer it to min/maxing statlines like when we saw Biggs walks the dogs vs. or 4BZ vs Howl Swarm all the time

Guess who had a PS9 TURRET that made ven Whisper nervous and has a dial that has almost every maneuver?

ta-daaa

 

so do I, but acewing trumped Joustwing.

Yes, but i ln Whispers case people just had to counter it in some way. I ran VI Chiraneau alongside my Whisper to do this. And Rebel players ran VI Han or Predator Han with an initiative bid.

If you did not counter Whisper you had indeed to be unbelievably lucky to win against it. I guess you needed him to blank out repeatedly!

I don't however mind acewing that much if we have good ace choices for every faction. At the moment Empire and Rebels do, but Scum is a bit short on Super-Aces!

What is interesting is that they are seemingly buffing acewing further with Imperial aces. But then Tractor beam should be extremely good against few aces. No idea where this will end...

 

whisper opened the Acewing PS race meta.

and acewing basically means "Go full retard Ace" or you'll not get any solid shots in the meantime.

 

so all the lists were Whisper and things that kill whisper. 

whisper died and now it's Soontir\Vader (wow, SOME VARIANCE! still bulls#%) + something

and things that kill them. 

 

Well, the problem is that the PS race states "thou shallt not haev PS lower than 8, the higher the better"

so each faction has like 1-2 aces.

Soontir, Vader, Horn, Poe, maybe Miranda to some extent, Carnor in some instances.

S&V may easily walk out of the window, cause they didn't get any aces with ace-grade PSes and reposition abilities at all. and no control to counter them.

 

They already killed the Joustwing meta, and keep jumping on the rubble.

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On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!

Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.

Acewing in a nutshell where everybody is PS8+

*initiative roll*

-You go first!

===FLAWLESS VICTORY===

Yeah but if it was that simple, PS8 rebels could not compete with PS9 imperial aces. But they clearly can!

And i still prefer it to min/maxing statlines like when we saw Biggs walks the dogs vs. or 4BZ vs Howl Swarm all the time

Guess who had a PS9 TURRET that made ven Whisper nervous and has a dial that has almost every maneuver?

ta-daaa

so do I, but acewing trumped Joustwing.

Yes, but i ln Whispers case people just had to counter it in some way. I ran VI Chiraneau alongside my Whisper to do this. And Rebel players ran VI Han or Predator Han with an initiative bid.

If you did not counter Whisper you had indeed to be unbelievably lucky to win against it. I guess you needed him to blank out repeatedly!

I don't however mind acewing that much if we have good ace choices for every faction. At the moment Empire and Rebels do, but Scum is a bit short on Super-Aces!

What is interesting is that they are seemingly buffing acewing further with Imperial aces. But then Tractor beam should be extremely good against few aces. No idea where this will end...

whisper opened the Acewing PS race meta.

and acewing basically means "Go full retard Ace" or you'll not get any solid shots in the meantime.

so all the lists were Whisper and things that kill whisper.

whisper died and now it's Soontir\Vader (wow, SOME VARIANCE! still bulls#%) + something

and things that kill them.

Well, the problem is that the PS race states "thou shallt not haev PS lower than 8, the higher the better"

so each faction has like 1-2 aces.

Soontir, Vader, Horn, Poe, maybe Miranda to some extent, Carnor in some instances.

S&V may easily walk out of the window, cause they didn't get any aces with ace-grade PSes and reposition abilities at all. and no control to counter them.

They already killed the Joustwing meta, and keep jumping on the rubble.

Err... Yeah Warpman i do agree 100% on this. Add to the PS8-9 Aces the 6-7 ones that can take VI and still be playable.

But unlike you i don't really mind joustwing gone. I like how the game plays at the moment. And you have at least one non-Ace list that is competitive for each faction. TLTs for Rebels and Scum, Crackswarm for Empire.

Also there is something i don't quite get. You hate Acewing but then you were complaining about the stresshog? That sounds a bit odd to me!

Edited by ForceM

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Best part about these threads is they help me to update my ignore preferences. :P

And that tells us what exactly?

And contributes to the thread in what way?

 

How does this thread contribute to anything in any way. It is literally a thread for blail blerg to bring up his favorite problem that isnt a problem anymore, just so he can complain about it some more.

 

EDIT: I guess i should give some more qualification for this. I just dont understand why some people complain so hard about a game that they are in no way being forced to play. If you don't enjoy what a company is doing with game design, move on to another game. This is not an issue of me being angry at negativity, it just seems that if something grieves you so much that you need to post about it regularly on the internet, you probably should do something about cutting that thing out of your life.

Edited by Jamaican Lumberjack

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Best part about these threads is they help me to update my ignore preferences. :P

And that tells us what exactly?

And contributes to the thread in what way?

How does this thread contribute to anything in any way. It is literally a thread for blail blerg to bring up his favorite problem that isnt a problem anymore, just so he can complain about it some more.

 

EDIT: I guess i should give some more qualification for this. I just dont understand why some people complain so hard about a game that they are in no way being forced to play. If you don't enjoy what a company is doing with game design, move on to another game. This is not an issue of me being angry at negativity, it just seems that if something grieves you so much that you need to post about it regularly on the internet, you probably should do something about cutting that thing out of your life.

Okay i don't get why he is constantly conplaining either... But how does it happen that someone with barely 70 posts already knows him...

Blail you better stop this, even the forum newbies think you are a notorious complainer!

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On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!

Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.

Acewing in a nutshell where everybody is PS8+

*initiative roll*

-You go first!

===FLAWLESS VICTORY===

Yeah but if it was that simple, PS8 rebels could not compete with PS9 imperial aces. But they clearly can!

And i still prefer it to min/maxing statlines like when we saw Biggs walks the dogs vs. or 4BZ vs Howl Swarm all the time

Guess who had a PS9 TURRET that made ven Whisper nervous and has a dial that has almost every maneuver?

ta-daaa

so do I, but acewing trumped Joustwing.

Yes, but i ln Whispers case people just had to counter it in some way. I ran VI Chiraneau alongside my Whisper to do this. And Rebel players ran VI Han or Predator Han with an initiative bid.

If you did not counter Whisper you had indeed to be unbelievably lucky to win against it. I guess you needed him to blank out repeatedly!

I don't however mind acewing that much if we have good ace choices for every faction. At the moment Empire and Rebels do, but Scum is a bit short on Super-Aces!

What is interesting is that they are seemingly buffing acewing further with Imperial aces. But then Tractor beam should be extremely good against few aces. No idea where this will end...

whisper opened the Acewing PS race meta.

and acewing basically means "Go full retard Ace" or you'll not get any solid shots in the meantime.

so all the lists were Whisper and things that kill whisper.

whisper died and now it's Soontir\Vader (wow, SOME VARIANCE! still bulls#%) + something

and things that kill them.

Well, the problem is that the PS race states "thou shallt not haev PS lower than 8, the higher the better"

so each faction has like 1-2 aces.

Soontir, Vader, Horn, Poe, maybe Miranda to some extent, Carnor in some instances.

S&V may easily walk out of the window, cause they didn't get any aces with ace-grade PSes and reposition abilities at all. and no control to counter them.

They already killed the Joustwing meta, and keep jumping on the rubble.

i don't really mind joustwing gone. I like how the game plays at the moment. And you have at least one non-Ace list that is competitive for each faction. TLTs for Rebels and Scum, Crackswarm for Empire.

Also there is something i don't quite get. You hate Acewing but then you were complaining about the stresshog? That sounds a bit odd to me!

 

at least one sounds like death sentence xD

 

you can go Acewing or TLT-wing. or buy soem black crack

 

Stresshog is just too bluntly effective, it's like 40k when having centurions made 20-0 games against certain foes. and it's rebel only.

*sheds manly tear for S&V who didn't get any good toys

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On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!

Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.

Acewing in a nutshell where everybody is PS8+

*initiative roll*

-You go first!

===FLAWLESS VICTORY===

Yeah but if it was that simple, PS8 rebels could not compete with PS9 imperial aces. But they clearly can!

And i still prefer it to min/maxing statlines like when we saw Biggs walks the dogs vs. or 4BZ vs Howl Swarm all the time

Guess who had a PS9 TURRET that made ven Whisper nervous and has a dial that has almost every maneuver?

ta-daaa

so do I, but acewing trumped Joustwing.

Yes, but i ln Whispers case people just had to counter it in some way. I ran VI Chiraneau alongside my Whisper to do this. And Rebel players ran VI Han or Predator Han with an initiative bid.

If you did not counter Whisper you had indeed to be unbelievably lucky to win against it. I guess you needed him to blank out repeatedly!

I don't however mind acewing that much if we have good ace choices for every faction. At the moment Empire and Rebels do, but Scum is a bit short on Super-Aces!

What is interesting is that they are seemingly buffing acewing further with Imperial aces. But then Tractor beam should be extremely good against few aces. No idea where this will end...

whisper opened the Acewing PS race meta.

and acewing basically means "Go full retard Ace" or you'll not get any solid shots in the meantime.

so all the lists were Whisper and things that kill whisper.

whisper died and now it's Soontir\Vader (wow, SOME VARIANCE! still bulls#%) + something

and things that kill them.

Well, the problem is that the PS race states "thou shallt not haev PS lower than 8, the higher the better"

so each faction has like 1-2 aces.

Soontir, Vader, Horn, Poe, maybe Miranda to some extent, Carnor in some instances.

S&V may easily walk out of the window, cause they didn't get any aces with ace-grade PSes and reposition abilities at all. and no control to counter them.

They already killed the Joustwing meta, and keep jumping on the rubble.

i don't really mind joustwing gone. I like how the game plays at the moment. And you have at least one non-Ace list that is competitive for each faction. TLTs for Rebels and Scum, Crackswarm for Empire.

Also there is something i don't quite get. You hate Acewing but then you were complaining about the stresshog? That sounds a bit odd to me!

at least one sounds like death sentence xD

 

you can go Acewing or TLT-wing. or buy soem black crack

 

Stresshog is just too bluntly effective, it's like 40k when having centurions made 20-0 games against certain foes. and it's rebel only.

*sheds manly tear for S&V who didn't get any good toys

Yeah i don't want to go off topic again here although it's probably impossible to do so anyway in Blail's thread, but i absolutely disagree on the Stresshog and Rebels have more options (at least when compared to Empire) discussion. But you know that already!

I think where you are right is that Scum is still a bit on the lighter side of competitive options. I mean they have illicit, and also will now have two PS9 pilots, but then if we take a closer look. They are like similar or worse copies of Rebel Aces.

I mean seriously Talonbane and Wedge are both in the same spot. No mobility, nearly identical fragile ships (ok rebels at least have IA now) and they are both not played much!

Dengar and Han are also not that different from each other. PS9 PWT... And those are also not played that much at the moment!

I mean that's one of the rare cases where i don't get FFG. They saw what does not work with Wedge, and they knew what would happen with Han after MoV nerf and TLT release. And still they give Scum, excuse the term, copies of these ships for their PS9 pilots?

Why not give them a PS9 Viper? Or any other ship?

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On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!

Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.

Acewing in a nutshell where everybody is PS8+

*initiative roll*

-You go first!

===FLAWLESS VICTORY===

Yeah but if it was that simple, PS8 rebels could not compete with PS9 imperial aces. But they clearly can!

And i still prefer it to min/maxing statlines like when we saw Biggs walks the dogs vs. or 4BZ vs Howl Swarm all the time

Guess who had a PS9 TURRET that made ven Whisper nervous and has a dial that has almost every maneuver?

ta-daaa

so do I, but acewing trumped Joustwing.

Yes, but i ln Whispers case people just had to counter it in some way. I ran VI Chiraneau alongside my Whisper to do this. And Rebel players ran VI Han or Predator Han with an initiative bid.

If you did not counter Whisper you had indeed to be unbelievably lucky to win against it. I guess you needed him to blank out repeatedly!

I don't however mind acewing that much if we have good ace choices for every faction. At the moment Empire and Rebels do, but Scum is a bit short on Super-Aces!

What is interesting is that they are seemingly buffing acewing further with Imperial aces. But then Tractor beam should be extremely good against few aces. No idea where this will end...

whisper opened the Acewing PS race meta.

and acewing basically means "Go full retard Ace" or you'll not get any solid shots in the meantime.

so all the lists were Whisper and things that kill whisper.

whisper died and now it's Soontir\Vader (wow, SOME VARIANCE! still bulls#%) + something

and things that kill them.

Well, the problem is that the PS race states "thou shallt not haev PS lower than 8, the higher the better"

so each faction has like 1-2 aces.

Soontir, Vader, Horn, Poe, maybe Miranda to some extent, Carnor in some instances.

S&V may easily walk out of the window, cause they didn't get any aces with ace-grade PSes and reposition abilities at all. and no control to counter them.

They already killed the Joustwing meta, and keep jumping on the rubble.

i don't really mind joustwing gone. I like how the game plays at the moment. And you have at least one non-Ace list that is competitive for each faction. TLTs for Rebels and Scum, Crackswarm for Empire.

Also there is something i don't quite get. You hate Acewing but then you were complaining about the stresshog? That sounds a bit odd to me!

at least one sounds like death sentence xD

 

you can go Acewing or TLT-wing. or buy soem black crack

 

Stresshog is just too bluntly effective, it's like 40k when having centurions made 20-0 games against certain foes. and it's rebel only.

*sheds manly tear for S&V who didn't get any good toys

Yeah i don't want to go off topic again here although it's probably impossible to do so anyway in Blail's thread, but i absolutely disagree on the Stresshog and Rebels have more options (at least when compared to Empire) discussion. But you know that already!

I think where you are right is that Scum is still a bit on the lighter side of competitive options. I mean they have illicit, and also will now have two PS9 pilots, but then if we take a closer look. They are like similar or worse copies of Rebel Aces.

I mean seriously Talonbane and Wedge are both in the same spot. No mobility, nearly identical fragile ships (ok rebels at least have IA now) and they are both not played much!

Dengar and Han are also not that different from each other. PS9 PWT... And those are also not played that much at the moment!

I mean that's one of the rare cases where i don't get FFG. They saw what does not work with Wedge, and they knew what would happen with Han after MoV nerf and TLT release. And still they give Scum, excuse the term, copies of these ships for their PS9 pilots?

Why not give them a PS9 Viper? Or any other ship?

For the same reason why the Starviper and M3-A aren't good, they were balanced with golden age joustwing in mind, or why assault missiles are 5 points.

Also Dengar is going to be nuts. Scum Super Dash is going to be game breaking.

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Xizor's a PS 9 viper

V.I and virago for FCS, which removes the need for predator

Now idk the **** they were thinking with cobra (could've saved him with cloak but they dun ****** it up)

Least we got Dengar.

Anyway, I remember they introduced scum as a faction of dirty tricks; lower PS to reflect lack of professional pilots. They also described scum as selfish loners distrustful of one another ala n'dru

Course PS 9 xizor who loves to be near his meat shield buddies kinda muddles the design work there. Oh well

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Idk you 2. Dengar looks as good as Han, but not better. He has 2 agi but still dies to TLT. He maybe gets a small advantage through his ability, but then he is still a PWT and won't get stuff into arc all the time.

He looks solid, and Han is not weak right now either, but game braking, i would not think so.

Xizor is clearly not cutting it even now. The viper needs a PS 8 or 9 pilot with a better ability than Xizor. Guri at PS9 would be insane for instance.

Also you would certainly agree that game design>fluff all the way. Dirty tricks are well and good, but to compete, it needs to be a bit dirtier.

It's not the power of their lists that is wrong, but they really have only Brobots and TLTs right now. They can't quite compete in acewing at the moment. So they have a bit less options than their opponents.

Edited by ForceM

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The problem with Scum (other than the lack of a proper high PS arc dodger) is their lack of control mechanics, considering that they were originally anounced as the Dirty tricks and Control faction. Other than the HWK & Mist Hunter pilots there's really no solid control abilities unique to scum. Rebels have the stresshog, and after Imperial Veterans the Empire will have tie shuttles with tactician, rebel captive, and mara jade.

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The way I look at the factions are that they each have a special feat, or way they were designed:

Rebels: expensive, bulk, hard hitting, customizable ships

Imperials: cheap, disposable, swarming ships

Scum: ??? (My take is just random assortment of ships that do their own thing)

See, my take on scum is that scum ships only rely on themselves (besides the meat-shielded Xizor) . One scum ship use its "dirty tricks" by itself, and doesn't need help from anyone else. Whereas, (mostly) imperials and (sometimes) rebels use upgrades with their other friendly ships. Scum is just a bunch of thugs that have their own techniques and skills. Some are evasive, where others are hard-hitting.

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Best part about these threads is they help me to update my ignore preferences. :P

And that tells us what exactly?

And contributes to the thread in what way?

How does this thread contribute to anything in any way. It is literally a thread for blail blerg to bring up his favorite problem that isnt a problem anymore, just so he can complain about it some more.

 

EDIT: I guess i should give some more qualification for this. I just dont understand why some people complain so hard about a game that they are in no way being forced to play. If you don't enjoy what a company is doing with game design, move on to another game. This is not an issue of me being angry at negativity, it just seems that if something grieves you so much that you need to post about it regularly on the internet, you probably should do something about cutting that thing out of your life.

Okay i don't get why he is constantly conplaining either... But how does it happen that someone with barely 70 posts already knows him...

Blail you better stop this, even the forum newbies think you are a notorious complainer!

 

You make a fair point. :P I don't post very often but I have been hanging around the forums and reading for almost a year now.

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