Miraluka

[zypher 156]

Their near extinct status is part of the reason I made the xp bonus as small as I did. If I'm homebrewing I tend to knock 5 or 10 exp off for rareer species.

[Jace911 207]

I think if you give Miraluka the ability to sense living things at all times it makes sense to handicap them by giving them Black die on perception checks to notice droids and other nonliving things. They can still see them, but it's easier for them to overlook something that isn't alive just because of how their sight works.

[MaxKilljoy 1,107]

I forget -- can Miraluka read printed text, or display screens?  From an "analytical" standpoint, I'd think not, but I don't want to presume.

[jshlouie 60]

There are two ways you can handle giving a species a starting fr: 1) stackable with the initial career or spec, or 2) doesn't stack.

1) if it's stackable, then you are giving them something that is worth at least 50+ xp (since to get additional fr it is at the bottom of spec trees), and either they get it at actual cost, which will gimp the character options at creation, or they get it at wholesale, which is an unfair advantage. So either unfair to them or unfair to others.

2) basically creates a paradox where it only benefits those who opt not to benefit. (see above)

[Jace911 207]

I forget -- can Miraluka read printed text, or display screens?  From an "analytical" standpoint, I'd think not, but I don't want to presume.

 

See, I want to say no because that sounds like a decent handicap but on the other hand it would be a pretty significant hurdle for a spacefaring species in a universe where everything is holographic.

[Lareg 367]

From what you see in the games (KOTOR and SWTOR) which is the only medium where they are represented, they can read screens and printed texts fine. 

[Kyrinthic 14]

basic sense (worth 5-10 points), +1 (untyped) force point when using the sense power

This is enough to fuel it if not going jedi, and be better at it if going jedi, without losing out on anything for starting with a F&D jedi spec, and not better at other force powers than anyone else.

It also means they can always do the basic sense power (which makes sense, pun not intended), without having to rely on a dice roll or conflict.

 

This feels roughly equivlent to 2 +1 skill type starting powers, so either start at 90exp or 100 but no second racial thing.

 

The stat spread can go a lot of different ways, either will or int being high make sense from different perspectives, and cunning low does sound better than agi to me, but again, thats up to you, I'm mainly trying to offer insight into a way to make the force sight work.

[Voice 194]

No need to start Miraluka with Force Powers, or even a Force Rating.

 

Give them a bonus rank in Perception.

and/or

Subtract a couple setback dice from Perception/Vigilance checks where those setback dice come from cover/concealment.

 

On top of that:

Make them blind in a null-Force area (if those even exist in your version of the Star Wars universe).

[zypher 156]

Kotor established they could read. I believe the Wiki backs that up, but I'm on break and don't have time to check. More importantly, as a GM having someone that handicapped would be annoying more then interesting. If I want a "dealing w being blind" episode, I will just cut her off from the Force.. otherwise I don't want it to take up that much game time.

[MaxKilljoy 1,107]

Kotor established they could read. I believe the Wiki backs that up, but I'm on break and don't have time to check. More importantly, as a GM having someone that handicapped would be annoying more then interesting. If I want a "dealing w being blind" episode, I will just cut her off from the Force.. otherwise I don't want it to take up that much game time.

 

Very valid -- I was just bringing it up as part of the brainstorming. 

[zypher 156]

Kotor established they could read. I believe the Wiki backs that up, but I'm on break and don't have time to check. More importantly, as a GM having someone that handicapped would be annoying more then interesting. If I want a "dealing w being blind" episode, I will just cut her off from the Force.. otherwise I don't want it to take up that much game time.

 

Very valid -- I was just bringing it up as part of the brainstorming.

All good, the more ideas the better. Truthfully I think "reading the energy that makes up a datapads display" is a little silly.. but in this instance, I think playability of the species trumps anything else.

[jshlouie 60]

Attributes: The most compelling options are either all 2's or Agility @ 1 and Intellect @3 rest 2's - because when described in all previous rpg incarnations they are described as effectively near human, yet hindered by their dependence on force sight, which creates an inherent hurdle in coordination and reaction speed that can be overcome. They are also generally considered an above average intelligence species. Cunning seems odd to bring down because of the scope of cunning, namely that is more focused on mental alacrity rather than any physical capacity, despite its use with perception. In respect to Willpower, based on species wide descriptions they aren't described as being above average stubborn, willful, or disciplined.

 

Skill rank: Perception seems an obvious choice as they may not get it from career or specialization, but definitely have that perceptive capacity. If one decides to increase willpower, vigilance is what i would give them.

 

Force Sight: They ignore up to three setback dice because of concealment when using Perception with the stipulation that they are susceptible to the force power suppress's mastery upgrade, which renders them blind when targeted, and other force negating circumstances as determined by the gm. Miraluka can see through walls, read books, view holograms, see droids, and are effectively not blind as long as they are not cut off from the force, or dealing with creatures specially attuned to be "black matter" to the force.

 

They don't get any additional force powers or force rating, they can buy it if they are on a path to get it. Force sight is the only communal force connection that needs to be statted.

 

Starting Xp: 95 or 100, I'm leaning to 100, since force sight is powerful but also detrimental if countered, and the lanniks are in a similar situation with 100xp.

 

I wouldn't mention anything about bounties in the stat block as that is circumstantial to individual campaigns.

[jimjams79 59]

For those worried about the force rating, make a rule that A Miriluka's force rating cannot exceed 1 at character creation?

[zypher 156]

Just don't add force rating. It's unnecessarily complicating things. It invites off balanced character specs. There have been a lot of responses here that list ways to thematically stay true to Miralukans that don't involve giving them a FR head start.

The devs have made very specific methods of starting w a FR.

[Kael 1,865]

Just don't add force rating. It's unnecessarily complicating things. It invites off balanced character specs. There have been a lot of responses here that list ways to thematically stay true to Miralukans that don't involve giving them a FR head start.

The devs have made very specific methods of starting w a FR.

 

This. I don't see why people need for them to start with a Force Rating when there are more efficient ways to keep their flavor without creating other problems. Hell even races that have been sad to be immune to the Force in flavor (Hutts and Toydarians) aren't given a trait that actually makes that the case. This shows that the developers don't take these things to be so literal. 

[flyingcircus 7]

Every SW game I have run, every force user wants to be a blindass Miraluka and I just don't see the player draw to them.  I always have to tell someone no because I don't want 6 of them running around like a family outing its just stupid.

 

Now I get FFG version and they're not in it at all and nobody wants to even play the game, all they wanna play is d20 SAGA and I refuse to GM it anymore after I invested in all 3 starter box sets and GM screens and all 3 Core Books and a few sourcebooks, expecting to run it out of the entire group, I have 1 player that even wants to play the rest are d20 SAGA freeks or Pathfinder players which I hate as well (PF not the players).

Edited January 23, 2016 by flyingcircus

[Lareg 367]

Change group or tell them to grow up.

[bkoran 185]

It may just be me, but this thread has gone on for 3 pages already, and I'm just boggling at the chatter so far.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Miraluka

 

http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Miraluka

 

Everybody is complaining that declaring Force Rating 1 out the gate is too much, b/c maybe the player didn't want to be Force Sensitive. So why are you playing a Force Sensitive race? Miraluka aren't like Humans, who sometimes end up Force Sensitive. The Whole Race is Sensitive, that's why they can see without eyes. If you don't want to be Force Sensitive, pick a different race. You want to be blind, be blind. Your Human or Zabrak could be born without eyes or whatever. But specifically evolving on a planet with an infrared star, they had to develop Force Sensitivity to survive.

 

As for being overpowered... that's only if you think the racial FR 1 adds into whatever career you choose. But aren't all Force Sensitive people born with FR 1 already? This is no different. You're just filling in that blank on the character sheet during Race selection, instead of during Career selection. Either way, they still only have FR 1.

 

And the sight thing itself, that's pretty obviously the basic Sense power. Which is a whole 10 xp to buy otherwise. If you're really worried about it, short change the player 10 xp during CharGen or something.

[Kael 1,865]

It may just be me, but this thread has gone on for 3 pages already, and I'm just boggling at the chatter so far.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Miraluka

 

http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Miraluka

 

Everybody is complaining that declaring Force Rating 1 out the gate is too much, b/c maybe the player didn't want to be Force Sensitive. So why are you playing a Force Sensitive race? Miraluka aren't like Humans, who sometimes end up Force Sensitive. The Whole Race is Sensitive, that's why they can see without eyes. If you don't want to be Force Sensitive, pick a different race. You want to be blind, be blind. Your Human or Zabrak could be born without eyes or whatever. But specifically evolving on a planet with an infrared star, they had to develop Force Sensitivity to survive.

 

As for being overpowered... that's only if you think the racial FR 1 adds into whatever career you choose. But aren't all Force Sensitive people born with FR 1 already? This is no different. You're just filling in that blank on the character sheet during Race selection, instead of during Career selection. Either way, they still only have FR 1.

 

And the sight thing itself, that's pretty obviously the basic Sense power. Which is a whole 10 xp to buy otherwise. If you're really worried about it, short change the player 10 xp during CharGen or something.

 

The argument wasn't that they wouldn't want to play a Force sensitive. The argument is that if you give them a Force rating it prompts people to pick non Force based careers as their starting career. That means it becomes to goto race for anyone who doesn't want a F&D class but still wants to play with a Force sensitive. Things that are the obvious goto in the long run aren't really good mechanics. You shouldn't homebrew a mechanic that a player would be stupid not to take, and giving any race a starting FR makes it stupid not to pick that race if you are also interested in non F&D specs. 

 

The rest of your points about Sense have already been addressed. 

 

As was stated before, the developers don't take these things as literal. Hutts and Toydarians are said to be immune to Jedi mind tricks. But we've seen from both that that doesn't translate into a straight up immunity to the power. This indicates that overall, the developers are not literal when considering the source material. You can create a more balanced Miraluka without making them a goto race. Giving them a FR and a free force power turns them into a goto race that a lot of PC's would be stupid not to take. 

 

Edit: In a nutshell it makes them the one race that doesn't need to play by the same set of rules that everyone else does in regards to gaining Force powers and taking non Force careers. Frankly I don't see what makes this race sooooooooo special that they need to be the rules exception. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Kael

[MaxKilljoy 1,107]

It may just be me, but this thread has gone on for 3 pages already, and I'm just boggling at the chatter so far.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Miraluka

 

http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Miraluka

 

Everybody is complaining that declaring Force Rating 1 out the gate is too much, b/c maybe the player didn't want to be Force Sensitive. So why are you playing a Force Sensitive race? Miraluka aren't like Humans, who sometimes end up Force Sensitive. The Whole Race is Sensitive, that's why they can see without eyes. If you don't want to be Force Sensitive, pick a different race. You want to be blind, be blind. Your Human or Zabrak could be born without eyes or whatever. But specifically evolving on a planet with an infrared star, they had to develop Force Sensitivity to survive.

 

As for being overpowered... that's only if you think the racial FR 1 adds into whatever career you choose. But aren't all Force Sensitive people born with FR 1 already? This is no different. You're just filling in that blank on the character sheet during Race selection, instead of during Career selection. Either way, they still only have FR 1.

 

And the sight thing itself, that's pretty obviously the basic Sense power. Which is a whole 10 xp to buy otherwise. If you're really worried about it, short change the player 10 xp during CharGen or something.

 

 

So you give them their "Force sight" as a species, not a default Force Rating. 

 

It's not the same thing as just being Force sensitive... or they wouldn't be able to read printed or displayed or holographic text.

[Kael 1,865]

It's also worth noting, Sense isn't some measly ability. Like Sense is really really good. Getting that for free is an awesome thing. And then for a small investment of 10 points (with my free FR and my free power) I can now upgrade attacks. Sense is one of the better powers in the game if you only have a FR of 1. And it's upgrades are fairly cheap. 

[zypher 156]

It may just be me, but this thread has gone on for 3 pages already, and I'm just boggling at the chatter so far.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Miraluka

http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Miraluka

Everybody is complaining that declaring Force Rating 1 out the gate is too much, b/c maybe the player didn't want to be Force Sensitive. So why are you playing a Force Sensitive race? Miraluka aren't like Humans, who sometimes end up Force Sensitive. The Whole Race is Sensitive, that's why they can see without eyes. If you don't want to be Force Sensitive, pick a different race. You want to be blind, be blind. Your Human or Zabrak could be born without eyes or whatever. But specifically evolving on a planet with an infrared star, they had to develop Force Sensitivity to survive.

As for being overpowered... that's only if you think the racial FR 1 adds into whatever career you choose. But aren't all Force Sensitive people born with FR 1 already? This is no different. You're just filling in that blank on the character sheet during Race selection, instead of during Career selection. Either way, they still only have FR 1.

And the sight thing itself, that's pretty obviously the basic Sense power. Which is a whole 10 xp to buy otherwise. If you're really worried about it, short change the player 10 xp during CharGen or something.

As you've said, we've got 3, almost 4, pages here explaining why it's a bad idea. As a F&D character it wouldn't be crippling overpowering.. but it would become the go to for non force sensitives. If you can make it work at your table, good for you. If someone brings an idea to these forums, most of us are going to try to make work with RAW.. Force Sensitive starting races flat out, undisputedly does not work with RAW, no precedent for it and it makes the balance of the three core books fall askew.

As I said, if it works for your table roll with it (if they start w a Force and Destiny class it's a completely moot argument) if it's presented on these forums I feel the need to point out to people the many problems that it could cause.

Edited January 25, 2016 by zypher

[Vondy 1,460]

You could deduct the cost of buying into the force sensitive tree and the basic sense power from their starting experience total. 

 

They would, of course, have to pay more for whatever second specialization represented their profession during character design.

 

But, this relatively simple solution would balance out the pricing and do away with the "force rating advantage" criticism.

 

Basically, you are saying "all members of this race must start play with a force tree."

Edited January 25, 2016 by Vondy

[Kael 1,865]

 

 

Basically, you are saying "all members of this race must start play with a force tree."

 

Actually what we're saying is all members of the race follow the same character rules as the other 50 some odd species that have already been released. We can already duplicate their Force sight without giving them a Force Rating or Sense, none of which actually duplicates their abilities and still requires you to add in more stuff to make them able to do what flavor says.

 

. 

[Vondy 1,460]

 

 

 

Basically, you are saying "all members of this race must start play with a force tree."

 

Actually what we're saying is all members of the race follow the same character rules as the other 50 some odd species that have already been released. We can already duplicate their Force sight without giving them a Force Rating or Sense, none of which actually duplicates their abilities and still requires you to add in more stuff to make them able to do what flavor says.

 

. 

 

 

I was summarizing my own suggestion and not reflecting on anything anyone else said.