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awp832

so.. Dori. He's not terrible.

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I have Dori in my Gimli-Dori-Oin deck (whose companion is a classic Dain-Thorin-Ori deck).

 

He's the defender, but he's just a tactics dwarf body who fills that roll better than Thalin would.  Beregond would do a better job, but it's a thematic deck.  I got to use his ability one time over the course of a Three Trials game this evening, saving Dain from what would have been 2 points of damage.  Any other ability would have been more useful here -- actually it would have been nice to have Beregond's ability on this guy, so you don't have to pay for Ring Mail or you could put a Citadel Plate on him for a reasonable price.  Ah, well.

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So Dori + elledan + elhrohir.

Straight away Elrohir can defend for 5 multiple times, no cards required.

Nope. Dori gives +2 def for single attack, not until the end of the phase.

 

 

bugger I guess I need to read things better, to only one attack makes Dori a lot worse than my original thoughts then.

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So Dori + elledan + elhrohir.

Straight away Elrohir can defend for 5 multiple times, no cards required.

 

Obviously any quest with a smaller number of large enemies would benefit from this, pity it can't go onto the Beorn hero.

 

If you unexpected courage can you add Dories defense twice?

 

Boromir tactics hero could use the +2 defense multiple times.

 

So there are ways of using him if you build for it.  Its all very nice saying that you can use Durin's Song, Ring Mail, the ever-amazing Arwen etc, but you need to have a deck with that sphere, and draw the card, and have the resources to play it.

 

Definitely be a better hero in multiplayer, but you can say that for any with ranged or sentinel.

 

Yeah nothing you mentioned here works since Dori's effect is only for a single attack. It's also a response, so you can't use UC you ready him and stack his ability for a big attack.

 

Despite this, there are niche uses... like Dori+Beregond+Gondorian shield lets you take huge hits from Smaug in Battle for Lake Town on turn 1 and can really shine there. But as for a hero you would take up against an ordinary quest? I think not. Even if you are successful, you haven't proven that he's better than pretty much any other hero you could have brought.

 

 

I think the key is you can boost defense straight away, with no cards or resources.

His 5 HP allows him to block small enemies without to much danger.

 

Dori + Expected Courage + any defense boosts might be a more efficient way to increase multiple hero's defense, with only one shield, or armour or protector of Lorien.  Definitely much better for multiplayer.

Useful for quests where those annoying enemies auto engage the last player or other such things that bypass threat, you can boost one of the other players hero's.

 

But yes reading the card properly shows his boost only affects one attack, this definitely devalues the card.

 

This might also provide a way for the Hero Gloin to be useful now, he used to be able to just absorb an attack, but now all of the enemies are to strong.  And if you have a week enemy don't use Dori.

Might also allow Gimili to get powered up/raged without getting dead.

 

Would probably work well with the Erkenbrand hero

 

 

The other  thing that comes to mind is what to do if you don't need his ability, how to get some benefit out of him not being tapped / not questing.  A quick look gives "Ancestral Knowledge", "We are not idle", "spare hood and cloak", "common cause" , Put dark Knowledge on him as you won't quest.

 

5 HP makes him a good song of mocking target, this will give him the same ability as his ally version.  Use raven winged helm as well.... (I mightt have to make a Dori the sponge deck up)

 

 

So lots of options, probably won't be top tier decks, or just easy auto includes but could still have some fun.  So not terrible, but compared to most of the new Heros, definitely sub par.

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... I take a lot of hits right in the Gloin. 

 

Top quality pun right there.  :)

 

So, funny story, I had always pronounced that character's name in two syllables, with a long "O" sound,  a result that sounds rather like "GLOW-in".   And then I heard someone else -I think maybe on CBotR podcast- pronounce it Gloin -rhyming with "coin".  And another word that I also obviously  thought of.   Considering that taking hits is sort of what Gloin does and it seemed a very appropriate pun, I switched over.   Still...  I'm still not sure which one is correct.

Anyway, back to the issue at hand, I encourage all the skeptics to build a deck, give him a good solid try in multiplayer, and if you still think he's 3rd place amongst Dwarf Tactics heroes... well hey, agree to disagree.   But to me he's much better in reality than in theory-deckbuilding.

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I'm pretty sure Glow-in is the correct pronunciation, but I find it hard to switch because I've been saying it the wrong way for so long (also that's the way it's pronounced in the movies).

Nah, it's Gloin as in coin.

With Dain on the other hand, I learned a year ago or so that the cd book narrator said it like the german word "dein".

I use the german word for lack of a better example in english, but just use the y from "my" in there.

And that was different from how the movies (or anybody I know) pronounced it.

Odd.

Edited by Noccus

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I'm pretty sure Glow-in is the correct pronunciation, but I find it hard to switch because I've been saying it the wrong way for so long (also that's the way it's pronounced in the movies).

Nah, it's Gloin as in coin.

With Dain on the other hand, I learned a year ago or so that the cd book narrator said it like the german word "dein".

I use the german word for lack of a better example in english, but just use the y from "my" in there.

And that was different from how the movies (or anybody I know) pronounced it.

Odd.

Dine, perhaps?

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I'm pretty sure Glow-in is the correct pronunciation, but I find it hard to switch because I've been saying it the wrong way for so long (also that's the way it's pronounced in the movies).

Nah, it's Gloin as in coin.

With Dain on the other hand, I learned a year ago or so that the cd book narrator said it like the german word "dein".

I use the german word for lack of a better example in english, but just use the y from "my" in there.

And that was different from how the movies (or anybody I know) pronounced it.

Odd.

Dine, perhaps?

Eh, yes like dine.

Haha, now why couldn't I come up with something that simple at that moment.

Anyway, if the link Grandspleen shared has is correct, then both the movies & cd book got it wrong? :/

Edited by Noccus

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Personally I've always thought of Caldara as a terrible hero. But plenty of people use her. Different people see different value in cards. Isn't that the point of a game like this?

I tend to agree. Often times a card that will not have a lot of value will see a complimentary card long after it's initial release. To use Caldara as an example, she certainly wasn't as panned as Dori. There were some who advocated for her and stated that though she wasn't terrible, there was something in that strategy and it just needed a few more key pieces to really shine. Boom, we have Sword-Thain and now she's even better and all I hear now are Caldara Decks doing quite well.

 

Now Dori is more panned than Caldara and right now there isn't a select few gathering around to defend this Tactics Dwarf Hero with a lower-tier deck that just needs a few pieces. It would need a lot of work. But who's to say that the designers can't come up with a card that immediately boosts his worth. I'm just making word vomit at this point but here's an off the cuff card that will probably never be made:

"Helm of Durin, 2 Cost Tactics Attachment

Attach to a Dwarf Hero, restricted.

Combat Action: After a Dwarf Hero exhausts during the combat phase ready that Hero. It gets +2 Defense until the end of the phase."

 

Suddenly Dori isn't so bad. So in a vacuum yeah he's not that pretty. But you never know what card will come out that changes things.

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Personally I've always thought of Caldara as a terrible hero. But plenty of people use her. Different people see different value in cards. Isn't that the point of a game like this?

NO ! When the mob says that a hero is broken and another is useless you have to follow the mob !!!

 

P.S. I totally agree with you Mr. ;) 

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There are some heroes that his ability is like to be safe for a card at first hand. For example Bilbo would be Gleowine. Haldir would be quickstrike...

 

Well Dori is overpowered because he would represent 2 cards so!!! Gondor Shield, and Stand Together

 

 

:D:P

 

dori forever!!!

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Dori is like a hero version of Stand Together, which is a card no one ever uses.

The very fact that something is repeatable makes it more valuable than a one-time effect, though.

 

Not if you have to exhaust a hero for an effect like this.

Dori should read:

RESPONSE: After A hero is declared as an Defender add Dori's defense to the defending hero's defense for this attack. Limit once per turn.

 

Dori is not good because you have to exhaust a 10Threat hero for a meager effect. Just think of Beravor or Eleanor. These effects are worth exhausting a hero. 

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So, let’s clear something up right now. Dori isn’t unplayable. He isn’t terrible. He isn’t even bad. I mean—really check him out. He’s a 10-threat Hero sitting at 2/3/2/5 with Sentinel (assuming someone’s running Dain—which you are if you’re trying to find reasons to run Dori). Those are good stats. And that’s before you take into account the fact that he’s a target for the various Dwarf events and attachments. And he’s a Tactics dwarf, which you can’t ignore considering your other options are pretty limited (I love Gimli but Thalin is a Hero you have to build around to make him effective). Plus, even forgetting about his ability, he has Sentinel, which is okay in 2-player, good in 3-player and fantastic in 4-player. And while this is an admittedly small thing—that art.

 

He’s not bad.

 

But…that ability. That ability is bad. For a number of reasons. Exhaust a 10-threat cost hero (with a base 1/2/2 but really 2/3/2 stat line) to add 2 (maybe 3, if you got a Ring Mail on him) to another defending characters defense. For that one attack. And only if the defending character was a hero. And before shadow effects are revealed. And—this is the kicker—on a hero that already has Sentinel and could have just blocked on the other side of the board.

 

So no, Dori isn’t a bad character. Not even really a bad Hero. But unless you’re in a 4-player game playing against a combat-heavy encounter deck and need a Tactics resource on a Dwarf-traited character in your hero-lineup (something that, post Erebor Battle Master’s errata, is less important) then the opportunity cost for playing him vs so many other heroes is just too much. And even if you play him…how often are you going to want to use his ability vs just using the Sentinel?

 

That’s why Dori’s a disappointment. Not because he’s terrible. But because, unlike other mediocre-on-the-surface heroes like Rossiel and Caldara, there’s no way to build around his ability to make it more than it appears. At least, not one anyone has figured out yet with the current cardpool.

 

For me, he reminds me of Mirlonde. She’s fine. Her stats are decent and she can key off some Silvan synergy. But the designers were so focuses on not making her over-powered (and pushing mono-sphere decks to the exclusion of everything else) that they made her lack-luster. But at least Mirlonde is dirt-cheap in the right deck—Dori is still 10 threat. 

 

EDIT:

 

One thing worth noting that I forgot to mention. In a muti-player game where you have Dain on the board, you are going to want to have as many dwarves as possible across the players. Someone running this Dori means your Lore player can't run the (really pretty good) Dori ally. 

Edited by JonofPDX

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He's disappointing, that's for sure. Man, what happened in the design process with this guy? Did an intern design the card or something? But I'm intrigued. I want to make him work, somehow, someway...

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He should get an Errata like ...

 

"Response: After another Dwarf-Hero is declared as a defender and Dori is ready, add Dori's DEF to the defending hero's DEF for this attack. (Limit once per round.)"

 

Then Dori would be great.

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Repeating my comments from the "Cards we want to see" thread, I think what we need is a card that turns Dori's ability from being useful in rare corner cases to being more generally useful.  (I see no chance of positive errata, unfortunately.  Has there ever been errata in this game to make a weak card stronger?)

 

What I want is something that helps out Dori a lot, but doesn't have to be used with Dori.  And that means synergy with his rarely-useful ability.

 

So his ability

1) Exhausts after defender is declared

2) Adds his defense to another hero's defense for one attack.

 

The edge case where this ability is useful is where you don't need Dori's attack or defense for anything, but you need to buff a hero defender to take some massive attack (or another player's hero when Dori's player has no enemies).  I see two angles:

 

1) Get rid of the exhaust cost somehow.  Without the exhaust, Dori can buff a defending hero and still attack (making him solo-friendly), or potential buff multiple hero defenders in a multiplayer context.

2) Give some extra benefit for adding defense.

 

For #1, something like this would really help Dori

Tactics 1 attachment -- Unexpected Valor.  When a Hero exhausts not to quest, defend, or attack, exhaust unexpected valor to ready him.

 

This makes Dori useful even in solo, and the attachment is in-sphere.  It's also extremely useful for other heroes with an exhaust ability (Beravor, Denethor, Elanor, Haldir, Galadriel, Merry), but most of the other heroes have once per round limitations and only Dori has the attachment in-sphere.  The attachment would also be handy for attachments that exhaust themselves and the hero, but again that's not repeatable and only in-sphere for Great Yew Bow.

 

For #2, something like this would be useful

Tactics event (cost 1?) -- Counter-stroke.  After a hero defends without taking damage, do damage to enemy equal to the hero's attack.

 

With that, Dori's loss of action advantage can be worth it, because by buffing the defense of a good *attacking* hero he can potentially enable substantial direct damage.  Suddenly Dori becomes useful in a Gimli deck, serving as a defender most of the time but enabling the occasional massive counter stroke.  But it's also a card that doesn't require Dori to be in play to be handy in a deck.  (Maybe it should be "after a character defends", though?)

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