Negation vs Special action command cards

[DTDanix 845]

I activate a figure and play Urgency - special action - Gain movement points equal to your speed + 2.

My opponent plays Negation.

 

Do I only have 1 action left, or do I still have 2 actions?

 

I feel like this is different enough from the question about Take Initiative that it is worth asking, because in this case you're using a special action to play the card.

 

I could see the answer going either way, but I'm leaning towards Negation canceling everything about the card, including the special action usage.

 

 

[MikeNYHC 217]

This is a really good question.

I feel like you get a different action instead since you never really even get to begin the special action.

Before we send a request to FFG does anyone have an inkling about this?

[DarkJodo 128]

Good question - I wouldn't mind an official response, but the way its written here, it seems you would lose the action. 

 

"Command Cards" pg 5 Skirmish guide

 

" To play the card, he reveals it to his opponent, resolves its ability, and then discards the card."

 

and "Negation" reads:

 

"Use after your opponent plays a Command card with a cost of 0. Discard that card and cancel it's effects"

 

It suggests that playing a card consists of revealing, resolving and discarding as one action. 

[R5D8 420]

When you play Urgency, that command card merely gives a figure the option that that special action, which is to gain movement points.  Then, the figure utilizes that special action, gaining the movement points. Then the figure spends those movement points.

 

The time to play Negation would be when Urgency is revealed, but before the figure uses the special action presented on the card. This would remove the special action as an option so that the figure cannot use it.

 

The figure then has not wasted it's action, but the special action provided by Urgency is no longer available.

[DTDanix 845]

Good question - I wouldn't mind an official response, but the way its written here, it seems you would lose the action. 

 

"Command Cards" pg 5 Skirmish guide

 

" To play the card, he reveals it to his opponent, resolves its ability, and then discards the card."

 

and "Negation" reads:

 

"Use after your opponent plays a Command card with a cost of 0. Discard that card and cancel it's effects"

 

It suggests that playing a card consists of revealing, resolving and discarding as one action. 

When I read this quoted rules bit, I actually agree more that you can still use the action for something else.

Negation would, in effect, cancel everything about the "resolves its ability" part of the card.

 

Since Urgency resolving involves using a special action, that part gets canceled, so it is like you never used a special action.

[Fizz 986]

Actually, it has lost an action. There is no timing window between playing Urgency and actually spending the special action to gain its effects. By playing the command card, you immediately resolve the effect.

"Interrupt", RRG, Page 15:

 

If an interrupt makes the current action or ability invalid, that effect is not resolved. Any costs used to resolve that effect are still paid.

For example, if a player plays a Command card that allows it to attack a figure, and the figure interrupts to move out of line of sight, the Command card is discarded and the action spent on the attack is lost.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Fizz

[DTDanix 845]

I don't know if I agree.

You left out the part about "Some abilities use the term interrupt", which Negation does not do.

It isn't necessarily an interrupt ability, so that block of rules might not even apply.

 

The case with Urgency is different from the example in the book.

In that example, you're declaring an attack, but then the attack doesn't have a legal target, so it is over.

 

In the case of Negation, it might be like saying the fact you declared the attack is also canceled.

[DerBaer 1,223]

Negation is not an Interrupt.

 

"cancel it's effects" ... I would say that spending the action is part of the effects.

[landoro 57]

Stupid "game" the game question in my opinion. 

 

No you dont lose the action is my quick answer. 

[Rogue Dakotan 5,213]

I would say you just discard the card and you're sitting with two actions again. Because that seems fair and more fun. 

[Fizz 986]

Well, I got clarification, and honestly, I am glad I was wrong. Negation isn't akin to a "Counterspell" in Magic...more like a "NOPE!" in Exploding Kittens.

 

"Negation” cancels all effects of the card including any costs paid through the effects of that card. So, in this case, the action would not be spent.

 

Thanks!

Paul Winchester
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

Edited January 22, 2016 by Fizz

[MikeNYHC 217]

I got the same response myself a few minutes ago.

[bobbywhiskey 321]

Looks like this has all been answered.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2016 by bobbywhiskey

[Fizz 986]

Month old thread with a resolution, Bobby.

[Cremate 539]

In an interesting related issue, this answer should also mean that the card being negated basically counts as not having been played at all. This is important, because if it counted as having been played, then the player playing it would not be able to play an identical card (should they happen to have one) because of the rule otherwise limiting a player from playing two identical cards at the same time. As it is, however, that restriction should no longer apply (I noticed this as FFG has made a similar ruling for Twilight Imperium on the playing of Action Cards). This will rarely be relevant, but it will be good to know.