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Brino

Treating Jedi and Sith ideology (light & dark side) as nonsense

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As far as I can see, the force is an innately evil force, or all sentient life capable of tapping into it is innately evil. If the default end of a force sensitive person not avoiding their natural passions is to end up as a psychotic killer, then the force is pretty **** evil. The Jedi say that we have to avoid love, fear, anger, ambition, curiosity and everything else that defines humans and become a blank slate of calmness. They say that if we don't we will fall into the dark side and end up evil. They say we cannot love our own mother or fear for her safety without the force dragging us to evil.

 

The force presents a constant battle between neutral and evil, where the default setting is evil winning inside an individual. Good does not really enter into the picture. Any goodness shown by the Jedi is a calm pragmatism, or a leftover passion for justice or compassion that they have not managed to purge yet. Up until the last movie, we never heard of the good side seducing anybody and being addictive, no, the force has only every dragged people to evil. People that were good, were good despite the force, not because of it.

 

As such, I agree with the earlier posters about the force not changing its nature due to the ideology of its user, it will remain as is. As for the OPs question, can somebody think that both ideologies are bogus and just do whatever they want with the force? Sure, we call them Sith. We call them despots, tyrants, psychopaths and worse. Without the discipline of the Jedi, the dark side is too strong and seductive, giving into your passions and desires can only end one way.

 

 

Personally, I think that the Force, like any other energy, is neutral, and the good or evil in anything done with it comes from the outcome of and intent behind the actions, not from whether the Force was used to do it.

 

The Jedi and the Sith and every other tradition that attaches deep moral significance to the Force itself is projecting their own beliefs... they're getting out of the Force what they bring to it.

Edited by MaxKilljoy

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As far as I can see, the force is an innately evil force, or all sentient life capable of tapping into it is innately evil. If the default end of a force sensitive person not avoiding their natural passions is to end up as a psychotic killer, then the force is pretty **** evil. The Jedi say that we have to avoid love, fear, anger, ambition, curiosity and everything else that defines humans and become a blank slate of calmness. They say that if we don't we will fall into the dark side and end up evil. They say we cannot love our own mother or fear for her safety without the force dragging us to evil.

 

This is .... ok ..... for starters no, the Force isn't innately evil. Nor do the Jedi teach that if you follow your passions you will end up a psychotic killer. That completely misconstrues the Jedi and the Force. The Jedi also don't avoid their emotions. We were shown countless times Jedi expressing anger, love, fear, anger,ambition, curiosity and anything else. What they were not was ruled by them. They opted for a monastic life style because they felt it better suited what they felt their goal was as an institution. This is in no way different from Catholic clergy, who feel emotions and create bonds but devote their life to something greater than themselves. Because the Jedi feel they have a greater duty they devote all their time and energy to that duty to the exclusion of all other things that would interfere with that. But that never stopped them from loving, or feeling anger and fear. We witness these emotions from Jedi countless times in both canon and legends. 

 

The Jedi recognize that attachments is a good way for the dark side to get in. Loving your mother won't drag you to evil (not even remotely a Jedi teaching). But that attachment could be used against you. Perfect example is with Anakin when Palaptine uses Anakin love for Padme to corrupt him. It wasn't love that corrupted Anakin. Hell Obi Wan loved Anakin (like a brother but love is love and no form of love is greater than another). But that attachment was used against him in a way that say couldn't be used against Mace. Mace lacked an easy attachment for Papaltine to exploit. The Jedi recognized that given their position and what they felt was their duty that having these outside attachments created conflicts of interest. But to say that then the only way to use the Force is blank calmness is and anything else is just evil completely misses the point. And flys in the face of both canon and legend material that showed us all the ways in which Jedi actually felt emotions and still did their duty.

 

 

 

The force presents a constant battle between neutral and evil, where the default setting is evil winning inside an individual. Good does not really enter into the picture. Any goodness shown by the Jedi is a calm pragmatism, or a leftover passion for justice or compassion that they have not managed to purge yet. Up until the last movie, we never heard of the good side seducing anybody and being addictive, no, the force has only every dragged people to evil. People that were good, were good despite the force, not because of it.

 

People were not evil because of the Force. That isn't even remotely supported. What was recognized was that if someone was evil and they used the Force for evil they could create great harm. No one falls to light side or the good side of the Force because the default setting is good. It creates life. It binds all life together. Like anything else it can be used for evil. We don't say people are seduced by good. Never. To expect them to use that in regards to the Force when we don't use that in regards to humans in general is just ....... 

 

The Force never made someone good. But it also never made anyone evil. The person themselves were either good and evil and they then used the Force for that purpose. Tarkin was evil and he did not need the Force for that. By that same token Darth Vader was evil and it wasn't the Force that made him that way. The entire fall of Anakin makes it clear, the Force never turned him evil, a series of bad choices made him that way. 

 

 

About not falling to the Light, well... Kylo Ren would like to have a word with you.

 

 

When Kylo Ren talks about "the call to the light" he's not literally speaking about the Force trying to pull him away from the dark side, he's talking about the good that is still inside him--the good that he murders when he spears his father with a lightsaber.

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