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imprezagoatee

So, the tractor beam

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The fact that it still has to actually HIT the target before it has any effect seems to be getting overlooked a lot. Yeah, IF you shoot a t-beam at soontir first and it hits, he's in trouble. -1AG and he lost his stealth device. But good luck landing that shot. And if you shoot other stuff first to strip tokens, the -1 AG is less important.

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It's also important to realize that in some situations you may be giving your target a better shot if you hit them with a Tractor Beam. If you hit your small target with a Tractor Beam you have to move them, even if the only legal spots to put them are worse for you than for them.

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So the space cow lumbers on to the playmat with some Tie Bomber buddies.  The bombers lay a track of mines. The space cow does a full stop. A high PS arc dodging pureskill awesomesauce stud deftly maneuvers just past the mines. "Pure skill", he hisses. The space cow yanks him onto the mine with a tractor beam. "Moo", says the space cow.

 

Please for the love of all that is holy, tell me this can happen.

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So the space cow lumbers on to the playmat with some Tie Bomber buddies.  The bombers lay a track of mines. The space cow does a full stop. A high PS arc dodging pureskill awesomesauce stud deftly maneuvers just past the mines. "Pure skill", he hisses. The space cow yanks him onto the mine with a tractor beam. "Moo", says the space cow.

 

Please for the love of all that is holy, tell me this can happen.

 

only if the dice love you, sadly

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the dream is real

 

but I think the Numbster and the Tie/D are, so far, the only ones with any real chance of  realizing it

 

Misty's gonna rock the beams anyway because, hey, it's a 1 point barrel-roll and the T-beam's just extra. I'd use a turn to T-beam soonts at range 3 rather than waste a primary, provided the entire squad didn't have guns trained on him

Edited by ficklegreendice

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The fact that it still has to actually HIT the target before it has any effect seems to be getting overlooked a lot. Yeah, IF you shoot a t-beam at soontir first and it hits, he's in trouble. -1AG and he lost his stealth device. But good luck landing that shot. And if you shoot other stuff first to strip tokens, the -1 AG is less important.

But I play rebels AND my green dice hate me so missing is usually not the issue.

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A lot of the strength of Tractor Beam is going to be in the subtle things that are harder to describe on the forums than the obvious, "next turn you're off the board lol" scenario.

 

Yeah, I know right? If only someone had written a post that laid out a bunch of alternate tactical scenarios... ;)

 

Seriously Fickle hit it on the head: "counterplay abounds."

 

This upgrade is going to be really awesome. It's going to give ships some love that don't normally see it, it lends Scum something new and useful because lets face it, they need help, and it's going to make people rethink a bunch of other upgrades and combos they'd previously only looked at for a moment and then left abandoned. Lots of pilots will see new and interesting use out of it, or out of the slight strategies it provides, both as an exploit or as a counterplay option.

 

I for one love Imperials. I'm a graphic designer and artist and I use those skills every round. I'm super proud of my ability to routinely fly within a hair's breadth of obstacles without colliding, and hugging them tight for defense. And sure this means I may have to rethink my methods a little if my opponent is packin' tractors.

 

Just like I had to do when my opponents started spamming Wedge.

 

Just like I had to do when turrets and Ion became a thing.

 

Just like I had to do with the advent of Fat Han and other turretwing chumps.

 

Just like I had to do against Phantoms.

 

Just like I had to do when Transports started packing stress tools.

 

Just like we always have to do. Good god, who in the world wants to be able to keep playing this game the same way they did when they first started? EVOLVE OR DIE.

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After thinking it over for a day or two, I was hoping to play for one more wave but I think that's the card that I just don't want to ever see on a table at its day of preview. It's design is just a pile of crap!

High Pilot skill becomes even more important. Since you'll want to get your shots off before they get mucked with.

You never want to take actual rocks from here on in. When debris will be so much easier to cope with a stray tractor. Ooh wait I'm sorry there are the tiny itty-bitty rocks that are so good at blocking... Wait...No they're not.

Large ships are big again as they are for some ungodly reason immune to half the effect. Fun fact the only ship in the original trilogy that ever gets hit by tractor beams is the Falcon as I recall. But in game right now it is immune except for the first half of the effect. Go figure that one out. So first of all tractor beam should read thematically 'any ship that is your size or smaller' or have a size reference off of the number of tokens or SOMETHING to do with that.

Forced maneuvering kills the idea of formation flying. At least with restrictive maneuvering, like ion, you can plan for it. And usually work around it. But this just says no to that. Abilities that mess with the boundaries of those formation style bonuses are cool, but out right destroying the formation flying concept is just no fun.

Add to that the potential to set up auto kills off of leaving the board, which forces you to play in the highly dangerous obstacles in the center, so great, there's no real safe zone against it.

It doesn't just screw the one guy over for potentially two turns, it screws up anyone that you might have had flying nearby if they suddenly have to fly around their ill tractored buddy. Yay? Woo! Here's our balanced game that is built on maneuvering! Bzzzzt! Tractored into block your own mini Swarm the following turn. Well, so much for that idea.

Then there's the problem where you can't really play around it. It would have been something at least if arc dodgers or say any ship with Boost or Barrel Roll could fight to keep their position by jinking out of the beam by saying look, I've already done a Barrel Roll and a Boost, you'll have to just shoot me. But nope can't do that.

Then there's the timing. Tractor beams were not fast. At all. Rebels recently had a few episodes where tractor beams were present and they take time. They can reach their immobilizing effect quickly, but to actually make progress moving the target is a fairly slow procedure. Not to mention it could be dragged out by the ship attempting to resist the effects with its own power. So if it was at the end of the round or modified your next move out whatever, that would be reasonable. Immediately? We're they high? Even Han solo took a couple seconds to realize the Falcon had been tractored, because it's effects are so slow.

And lastly why have it work in three directions, but not backwards? Why can't the beam force a reverse boost, but can force a forward one? What's up with that? Like some one said way earlier, is also a repulsor beam already, so you'd think it could do this.

You know, I expected so much better out of FFG. Honestly, I've never seen such a ramshod design out of one of their teams. To get me to rant this much is a first by a looooong shot for them. Hell, I don't think Wizards ever had me so flabbergasted.

Edit: ooh lord did it get edited. Ranting on phones is hard.

Edited by ForceSensitive

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Sorry to laugh as my first response, but reading that post by ForceSensitive and the signature says #LetGoOfYourAnger is pretty Epic.  

After that, sorry you feel that way and that anger and hurt were your responses. The roadmap is paved with ships and upgrades we are all going to like and hate depending on who gets to use them. 

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I disagree -

There are plenty of situations where you may want to fire after an opponents ship - (see my earlier post), but before the rest of your own ships - so it sets up good reasons for decoy, or works just fine if you have generics in your squad with the same or lower p.s. than your tractor beam.

Debris tokens will stress you - and that could be more problematic than landing on a rock - you'll also know where the tractor beam ship is, so you can stay out of the way of a rock if you need to. Or kill it first - most tractor carriers will die quickly, and with the exception of the defender, will be giving up a more damaging shot.

We're looking at a beam weapon - and not the tractor emmitters of something like a star destroyer/death star. That they'd have a hard time moving a more massive object, especially as a scyk moving a falcon! - it seems surprisingly fluffier. Recall the beam weapons from tie fighter.

Ion screws up tie swarms - since there is no one straight, if you're formation flying - it won't be too difficult to slow your ship or barrel roll back into position. Since this isn't happening in the activation phase - you can recover. It's less disruptive than ion to ties, or than being blocked.

you can't be rolled off the edge, so as long as you're not facing the edge - you're fine, it's the corners where it becomes the most dangerous, especially since your facing can't be changed - you'll need to be close to, small ships have the easier time dealing with maneuvers near a board edge. You'll also have plenty of time to react.

Maybe, moving backwards was more of an issue than forward or to the sides - what we got are simple movements that are already part of the game language.  I'd play with and against them for awhile, before freaking out over the perceived power of things - people thought TLT would be too weak and pointless - people thought the shuttle would be an insane overpowered ship at 21 points given its stats...

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Well looks like this is the end of the road for me and XWing. A have been pretty adamant about icontrol my maneuvering Ion me Reduce my Agility fine but I draw the line at others now deciding my fate by moving my ship.

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The beam has to hit, only is 3 dice, is locked in the forward arc except for the outrider or that one houndstooth pilot. It does no damage unless they get lucky.

I'm not going to worry until many people play test it. I'm guessing it will make some shifts in lists, but large ships will not rise much.

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And sure this means I may have to rethink my methods a little if my opponent is packin' tractors.

Just like I had to do when my opponents started spamming Wedge.

Just like I had to do when turrets and Ion became a thing.

Just like I had to do with the advent of Fat Han and other turretwing chumps.

Just like I had to do against Phantoms.

Just like I had to do when Transports started packing stress tools.

Just like we always have to do. Good god, who in the world wants to be able to keep playing this game the same way they did when they first started?EVOLVE OR DIE.

Why I love X-Wing in a nutshell. BRAVO

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I'ts broken, and anyone who thinks otherwise is one of the ******* type players whos been waiting for an abusive card.

 

First, Any ability that affects your opponents ship, needs to cost more than 1 measly point.

 

Second, the issue that you "give up damage" is not actually accurate, nor is it valid. If you can maneuver them onto an obstacle (which this ability will likely be mostly used for) You still have a chance of dealing damage, and you prevent them from attacking, which can be Far more beneficial than getting 1 or 2 hits on them, and you're still getting the change to inflict damage on them anyway.

 

Third, having an ability that allows your opponents, to touch your ships, is asking for trouble. I'm a bit paranoid, and have a hard time trusting people who would want to handle my miniatures. I make sure my hands are clean when i use mine, and there is no grantee my opponents will be. Respectful ones will be out there, sure, but you cant guarantee it.

 

Forth; i dislike this "take things away from your opponent" direction the game is taking. Ion's were at least more balanced in cost and effect. In my experience, Ionizing a ship proved only situationally useful as it was diffacult to setup 'traps' where you could ion them into it (be it rock or mines). Most of the time, it just meant i could more easily block the ship and deny it an action. Tracor beam, gives the attacker far more control to manuver the ship on top of a rock they were next to (and though that had so skillfully avoided) preventing their attack, to right back into that range 1 firing arc or your other ship they thought they dodged. It takes decent skill to fly these ships around, knowing how to maneuver it, and this, Very cheap card, overrides a great deal of that skill.

 

This feels like its trying to force large ships back into competitiveness (which i didn't think they had an issue with). This card, in my opinion, needs to cost more than it does, or not include the Barrel roll. (which doesnt make sense anyway). The boost i can understand, but not barrel roll.

 

How often have you played with or against ions? I usually ion something onto a rock or off the board once a game.

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Is tractor beam viable on anything besides Defenders? To get the most use out of it you need it on a high PS ship since you remove the token at the end of the round and it reduces agility only for the combat phase it hits in. If you put it on a low PS ship even if it hits if your the lowest PS on the board the agility reduction is meaningless. So if you go the other way and equip it on a high PS ship is it worth the 20-30 some points your spending for using tractor beam to make your ship strictly a control ship? I guess it would be OK on IG-88B with his ability. Again, someone sell me on using tractor beam outside of Defenders.

go 5 heavy scyk with 3 having ion cannon and 2 having tractor beam and kindly escort the enemy ships off the board

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Large ships are big again as they are for some ungodly reason immune to half the effect. Fun fact the only ship in the original trilogy that ever gets hit by tractor beams is the Falcon as I recall. But in game right now it is immune except for the first half of the effect. Go figure that one out. So first of all tractor beam should read thematically 'any ship that is your size or smaller' or have a size reference off of the number of tokens or SOMETHING to do with that.

 

The Falcon got tractored by the frickin' Death Star... not some piddly, little snubfighter!  Hardly a fair comparison.

 

Seems the "small" ships mostly use tractor beams to augment their weapons systems (or the attacks of friendlies), making the target easier to hit by reducing its agility or maneuver options.

 

The "BIG" ships have enough power to actually MOVE a target ship, facilitating capture or preventing escape while holding it in place for hammering by the capital ships main batteries.

 

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Large ships are big again as they are for some ungodly reason immune to half the effect. Fun fact the only ship in the original trilogy that ever gets hit by tractor beams is the Falcon as I recall. But in game right now it is immune except for the first half of the effect. Go figure that one out. So first of all tractor beam should read thematically 'any ship that is your size or smaller' or have a size reference off of the number of tokens or SOMETHING to do with that.

 

The Falcon got tractored by the frickin' Death Star... not some piddly, little snubfighter!  Hardly a fair comparison.

 

Seems the "small" ships mostly use tractor beams to augment their weapons systems (or the attacks of friendlies), making the target easier to hit by reducing its agility or maneuver options.

 

The "BIG" ships have enough power to actually MOVE a target ship, facilitating capture or preventing escape while holding it in place for hammering by the capital ships main batteries.

Also fun fact, the Death Star never used any of its plethora of tractor beams on those snub fighters at Yavin, or at Endor. Which just makes this whole thing even weirder. And as the rules stand small ships can tractor around other small ships no problem. Man this thing is just a mess of concepts and design holes. Actually I can't remember when they did use tractors on small ships in the movies or the shows. Any ideas?

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Man theres a lot of negative responses to T beams here. Have any of you actually tried it out yet? Honestly its pretty trashy on all but a select few pilots/ships. I spent all day gaming with this thing with 4 different lists and I can say its probably only worth a **** on defenders with EPTs. And that defender is vess and that EPT is ruthlessness. Maaaaaybe on ten numb but I'd rather be rocking ion with him which speaking of is a lot more powerful than the tractor.

I tried, god I tried to pull something stupid broken. Put a ship on an asteroid twice, both times the ships had already fired. Moved off without any remarkable effect. The best aspect of the combo all day was ruthlessness on 2 Zs. On the flip side I was forced to move a ship when I didn't want to resulting in my primary weapon being unable to hit the target I wanted. And this is on the best chassis for it.

 

tldr TBs are not spammable not broken.

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Man theres a lot of negative responses to T beams here. Have any of you actually tried it out yet? Honestly its pretty trashy on all but a select few pilots/ships. I spent all day gaming with this thing with 4 different lists and I can say its probably only worth a **** on defenders with EPTs. And that defender is vess and that EPT is ruthlessness. Maaaaaybe on ten numb but I'd rather be rocking ion with him which speaking of is a lot more powerful than the tractor.

I tried, god I tried to pull something stupid broken. Put a ship on an asteroid twice, both times the ships had already fired. Moved off without any remarkable effect. The best aspect of the combo all day was ruthlessness on 2 Zs. On the flip side I was forced to move a ship when I didn't want to resulting in my primary weapon being unable to hit the target I wanted. And this is on the best chassis for it.

 

tldr TBs are not spammable not broken.

I haven't tried it yet, but this was my thinking as well. You'll see these on defenders, but probably not a whole lot else. Remember, you're giving up your attack to do no damage, so you have to set up your target hard for the rest of your list or it is literally useless. Ion cannons seem far more dangerous to me. They do damage and restrict where you will be NEXT turn, making it easy to line up shots for all the ships in your list, regardless of PS.

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