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MajorJuggler

2016 Store Championship Results

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I'm saying it is practically guaranteed that a triple scout wins a SC this weekend.

3xCS just won in Stockholm.

 

you think they'll all start loving it over there :P?

Lets just say I am glad I already have a couple of SC wins before these monsters appeared. ;)

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Related to mine and Para's experiences with "win at all costs" tactics:

 

From the tournament rules:

 

 

 

Rules and Interpretations

Tournaments are played using the rules provided in the X-Wing core game rulebook and FAQ, both of which may be downloaded from the X-Wing Support page at any time. If players have a dispute during a competition, they must call a judge to resolve it and provide any rulings on card text or icons. The head judge is the final authority for all card interpretations during a tournament and may overrule the FAQ when a mistake or error is discovered.

 

 

Tiers of Tournament

Play Fantasy Flight Games’ Organized Play events are broken into three tiers of play. Each tier communicates what expectations the players, judges, and tournament organizers should have when they are involved with a X-Wing tournament. In addition, the competitive and premier tiers ensure that no matter where a tournament is held, it will be run with the same standards of play and rules enforcement as other tournaments of the same kind in different countries.

 

Competitive

Competitive events require players to have general knowledge of a game’s rules. While experienced players will come to these events to compete for prizes, players should not be punished for their lack of understanding in the finer points of X-Wing rules. Players can come to these events expecting a consistent experience from store to store. This tier includes Store Championships and one-off FFG-sanctioned events.

 

 

 

The Tournament Rules have (presumably) been superceded by the new Tournament Guidelines, which has some slightly different verbage. However for the Store Championships in question the above Tournament Rules certainly apply. A few points:

 

  1. The head judge may overrule the FAQ. It does, NOT however, state that the head judge may overrule the Core Rulebook. The TO's ruling that prevented my ships from maneuvering was illegal, and in Frank Brook's words in his email reply to me "outrageous". All ships MUST activate and execute their maneuver during the activation phase.
  2. At competitive events such as any Store Championship, the official guidance to the judge is that "players should not be punished for their lack of understanding in the finer points of X-Wing rules". Being denied actions due to a simultaneous dial flip, or waiting to put the tokens down after all the ships have executed their maneuver, almost certainly qualifies as a "finer point of X-wing rules". Therefore, a win-at-all-costs player attempting to deny another player actions on this basis, particularly by means of "entrapment", are in direct violation of the tournament rules.

 

I regularly game with the gentleman that TO'ed the Massachusetts Regionals last year and will be TOing them again this year. There were many examples last year of players that should have called a TO over but did not. Taking 5 and a half minutes to place a single dial, nudging ships to make a ship's maneuver fit, and so on. He is going to be on high alert this time for players that bend or violate the rules. Players that attempt to employ tactics such as my round 1 opponent or ParaGoomba, even if technically legal for a Regionals event, will be watched like a hawk and will not be given any leniency in rulings if a TO is called over for their games.

Edited by MajorJuggler

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It's one thing to not allow missed opportunities, but misleading someone into thinking something is ok, then 2-3 turns in tell them nope. Can't do that.

That kind of sucks the fun out of it on people, and a good way not to make friends

Why doesn't my opponent just git gud and stop missing opportunities?

Epitome of tryhard. You sound like a real ball to play with.

I cannot fathom how some of these claims aren't getting warned for unsportsmanlike conduct.

1.) First turn or two he moved his ships simultaneously and put focuses on them without saying anything. I didn't say anything either. Then when it was relevant I denied consent for that, because the rules allow me to.

2.) I am a ball to play with and there are a bunch of players I have a bunch of fun with, jokingly insulting each other and playing la cucaracha car horn sound effects from my phone whenever a good roll happens. But some random baby seal at a tournament? Clubbing time.

3.) Unsportsmanlike conduct for doing something in the game within my rights to do? K.

3.1) For the sake of argument, let's assume what I did was unsportsmanlike. Good luck ever getting this fly casual community to do anything about it, people will take 5 minutes for 1 dial and won't ever get the TO called over. So that's why -assuming for the sake of argument- an unsportsmanlike act would never get challenged and the TO brought over. In MajorJuggler's case the TO was just wrong, no clue why the FAQ wasn't looked at, Stopwing is clearly not how forgotten dials/moving out of PS order is handled.

In reality though your not taking an opportunity of a missed action

Example

Everyone knows in tournaments you have a time limit.

People who are flying swarm builds for example have 6-8 dials and ships to move.

It's pretty well accepted just about everywhere (I'll usually make sure it's OK with my opponent, though not everyone does) that if your moving 6 ps 1 ships you flip all dials and just move everything at once and then focus/evade.

It's pretty common and most people just accept it. Kind of like an unwritten rule.

You know this yourself **** well, but decided to use to your advantage.

Too watch a player do this, early in the rounds, let him focus even, then when push comes to shove you tell them that they can't.

That's pretty cowardly man.

If you were an honest player you would point it out in the first round.

If I truly thought the way you did, I would mention it first round, not when it's shooting time

I'm not a fly casual type person, missed action is a missed action, but I'd be ashamed and embarrassed if I was to play a game in such a way.

Excuse yourself however you want, but that's a pretty cowardly way to play.

It's a game with little ships, and meaningless prizes really.

If it really makes you feel good about yourself that's pretty sad man

Not trying to be offensive, but to deliberately set up your opponent to fail seems like borderline cheating, and a person I'll thankfully never have to play, and feel bad for those who do.

And so since you feel people are afraid to call a TO over you feel you can take advantage of them.

If your proud feeling like a bully is a kidish game, rofl go right ahead, I feel bad for ya.

Honestly if I was to win a tournament that way, I don't think I could ever show my face there again

Guess some people just have more pride that others.

I play by the rules, but I won't mislead people. Not cool man

Also not a good way to help the community.

I know if I ran into someone like that, I'd pass the word along, don't play there, this guy sucks to play against.

Which I've seen not far from my area, people not welcomed because of their piss poor attitude

What I find even more shocking is how grown adults playing a kids game can even act like this towards another person in a tournament

Like really? Your not going to be famous or rich if you win, so who cares.

Play, have fun, but most importantly be honest.

Edited by Krynn007

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Related to mine and Para's experiences with "win at all costs" tactics:

From the tournament rules:

Rules and Interpretations

Tournaments are played using the rules provided in the X-Wing core game rulebook and FAQ, both of which may be downloaded from the X-Wing Support page at any time. If players have a dispute during a competition, they must call a judge to resolve it and provide any rulings on card text or icons. The head judge is the final authority for all card interpretations during a tournament and may overrule the FAQ when a mistake or error is discovered.

Tiers of Tournament

Play Fantasy Flight Games’ Organized Play events are broken into three tiers of play. Each tier communicates what expectations the players, judges, and tournament organizers should have when they are involved with a X-Wing tournament. In addition, the competitive and premier tiers ensure that no matter where a tournament is held, it will be run with the same standards of play and rules enforcement as other tournaments of the same kind in different countries.

Competitive

Competitive events require players to have general knowledge of a game’s rules. While experienced players will come to these events to compete for prizes, players should not be punished for their lack of understanding in the finer points of X-Wing rules. Players can come to these events expecting a consistent experience from store to store. This tier includes Store Championships and one-off FFG-sanctioned events.

The Tournament Rules have (presumably) been superceded by the new Tournament Guidelines, which has some slightly different verbage. However for the Store Championships in question the above Tournament Rules certainly apply. A few points:

  • The head judge may overrule the FAQ. It does, NOT however, state that the head judge may overrule the Core Rulebook. The TO's ruling that prevented my ships from maneuvering was illegal, and in Frank Brook's words in his email reply to me "outrageous". All ships MUST activate and execute their maneuver during the activation phase.
  • At competitive events such as any Store Championship, the official guidance to the judge is that "players should not be punished for their lack of understanding in the finer points of X-Wing rules". Being denied actions due to a simultaneous dial flip, or waiting to put the tokens down after all the ships have executed their maneuver, almost certainly qualifies as a "finer point of X-wing rules". Therefore, a win-at-all-costs player attempting to deny another player actions on this basis, particularly by means of "entrapment", are in direct violation of the tournament rules.
I regularly game with the gentleman that TO'ed the Massachusetts Regionals last year and will be TOing them again this year. There were many examples last year of players that should have called a TO over but did not. Taking 5 and a half minutes to place a single dial, nudging ships to make a ship's maneuver fit, and so on. He is going to be on high alert this time for players that bend or violate the rules. Players that attempt to employ tactics such as my round 1 opponent or ParaGoomba, even if technically legal for a Regionals event, will be watched like a hawk and will not be given any leniency in rulings if a TO is called over for their games.

Related to mine and Para's experiences with "win at all costs" tactics:

From the tournament rules:

Rules and Interpretations

Tournaments are played using the rules provided in the X-Wing core game rulebook and FAQ, both of which may be downloaded from the X-Wing Support page at any time. If players have a dispute during a competition, they must call a judge to resolve it and provide any rulings on card text or icons. The head judge is the final authority for all card interpretations during a tournament and may overrule the FAQ when a mistake or error is discovered.

Tiers of Tournament

Play Fantasy Flight Games’ Organized Play events are broken into three tiers of play. Each tier communicates what expectations the players, judges, and tournament organizers should have when they are involved with a X-Wing tournament. In addition, the competitive and premier tiers ensure that no matter where a tournament is held, it will be run with the same standards of play and rules enforcement as other tournaments of the same kind in different countries.

Competitive

Competitive events require players to have general knowledge of a game’s rules. While experienced players will come to these events to compete for prizes, players should not be punished for their lack of understanding in the finer points of X-Wing rules. Players can come to these events expecting a consistent experience from store to store. This tier includes Store Championships and one-off FFG-sanctioned events.

The Tournament Rules have (presumably) been superceded by the new Tournament Guidelines, which has some slightly different verbage. However for the Store Championships in question the above Tournament Rules certainly apply. A few points:

  • The head judge may overrule the FAQ. It does, NOT however, state that the head judge may overrule the Core Rulebook. The TO's ruling that prevented my ships from maneuvering was illegal, and in Frank Brook's words in his email reply to me "outrageous". All ships MUST activate and execute their maneuver during the activation phase.
  • At competitive events such as any Store Championship, the official guidance to the judge is that "players should not be punished for their lack of understanding in the finer points of X-Wing rules". Being denied actions due to a simultaneous dial flip, or waiting to put the tokens down after all the ships have executed their maneuver, almost certainly qualifies as a "finer point of X-wing rules". Therefore, a win-at-all-costs player attempting to deny another player actions on this basis, particularly by means of "entrapment", are in direct violation of the tournament rules.
I regularly game with the gentleman that TO'ed the Massachusetts Regionals last year and will be TOing them again this year. There were many examples last year of players that should have called a TO over but did not. Taking 5 and a half minutes to place a single dial, nudging ships to make a ship's maneuver fit, and so on. He is going to be on high alert this time for players that bend or violate the rules. Players that attempt to employ tactics such as my round 1 opponent or ParaGoomba, even if technically legal for a Regionals event, will be watched like a hawk and will not be given any leniency in rulings if a TO is called over for their games.
I interpret the bolded text about not being punished for finer points of the rules to mean that if they've been doing something incorrectly that's not within the rules but minor like bringing Raider debris, they won't get in trouble from the TO. I don't think it means that players should be forced to let their opponents perform missed triggers.

Oh I know it's common practice to move a bunch of equal PS ships at the same time and then put focus on them. I do it sometimes too. Difference is I ask permission to bend the rules like that.

This game and its surrounding community don't have to be a hugbox. What I did was 100% within the rules. Yeah, I won partially because I was deceitful. This is a competitive war game, maybe my opponent wouldn't have been vulnerable to my deceit if he didn't miss all but one of his triggers.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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What is wrong with actually trying to out-fly your opponent?

Instead of out-rules lawyer him?

 

And once again; if you allow your opponent to turn multiple dials at the same time and allowing him to say for example; "All go 2 straight and take a focus" you are not my kind of player attending at my tournament if you suddenly try to disallow this in the turn where the first shots are fired.

 

It really seems to me that X-wing is about picking the right manoeuvres.

Not about rules-lawyering.

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What is wrong with actually trying to out-fly your opponent?

Instead of out-rules lawyer him?

 

And once again; if you allow your opponent to turn multiple dials at the same time and allowing him to say for example; "All go 2 straight and take a focus" you are not my kind of player attending at my tournament if you suddenly try to disallow this in the turn where the first shots are fired.

 

It really seems to me that X-wing is about picking the right manoeuvres.

Not about rules-lawyering.

He said no such thing until after he moved them all simultaneously and I told him that I did not consent to him performing a missed trigger. If he would have said something like that before/as he was moving the first one then he wouldn't have missed any triggers because he declared his actions.

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What is wrong with actually trying to out-fly your opponent?

Instead of out-rules lawyer him?

 

And once again; if you allow your opponent to turn multiple dials at the same time and allowing him to say for example; "All go 2 straight and take a focus" you are not my kind of player attending at my tournament if you suddenly try to disallow this in the turn where the first shots are fired.

 

It really seems to me that X-wing is about picking the right manoeuvres.

Not about rules-lawyering.

He said no such thing until after he moved them all simultaneously and I told him that I did not consent to him performing a missed trigger. If he would have said something like that before/as he was moving the first one then he wouldn't have missed any triggers because he declared his actions.

 

 

Not speaking up the first few times/turns implies consent to me.

I'd certainly would interpret it like that.

I am sure most people would.

 

Having said that; I actually agree your opponent should be clear at all times about what he does.

The lines get blurrier if you turn dials and not speak out loud what you intend to do.

Edited by Elkerlyc

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The issue is you letting him do it the first few turns. Giving consent. It was completely within reason for him to expect to do it again.

Exactly, that's why I let him do it the first few times so he'd do it again when it was to my advantage to deny consent.

I am not obligated to consent to missed triggers being performed. I am allowed to allow them one turn and deny them the next.

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The issue is you letting him do it the first few turns. Giving consent. It was completely within reason for him to expect to do it again.

Exactly, that's why I let him do it the first few times so he'd do it again when it was to my advantage to deny consent.

I am not obligated to consent to missed triggers being performed. I am allowed to allow them one turn and deny them the next.

 

 

And I would call that poor sportsmanship. Just own up to it, as you have repeatedly tried to defend your behavior. How you seem to fail to grasp this is beyond frustrating. 

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The issue is you letting him do it the first few turns. Giving consent. It was completely within reason for him to expect to do it again.

Exactly, that's why I let him do it the first few times so he'd do it again when it was to my advantage to deny consent.

I am not obligated to consent to missed triggers being performed. I am allowed to allow them one turn and deny them the next.

 

And I would call that poor sportsmanship. Just own up to it, as you have repeatedly tried to defend your behavior. How you seem to fail to grasp this is beyond frustrating.

I played 100% within the rules. That is not poor sportsmanship.

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Exactly, that's why I let him do it the first few times so he'd do it again when it was to my advantage to deny consent.

 

This is the part I think you are trying to rules-lawyer.

It has NOTHING to do with out-flying your opponent.

Zero tactics. Straight manipulation/deceit.

 

I'd come down on you (as a TO) like the fist of an angry god. (albeit with words only ;) )

 

I am not obligated to consent to missed triggers being performed.

 

This part I actually agree with.

 

I am allowed to allow them one turn and deny them the next.

True. Very unsportsmanlike and I would not condone it at my events. But strictly speaking you are right.

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I think it is definitely poor sportsmanship. If you like people to directly take an action after they moved their ship, you could just tell them in the first few turns? I would argue that by allowing this specific practice in the first few turns you give your consent to this specific practice. Did your opponent called a TO? He should have. 

 

Why do you even to play? Just to win? I play to win also, but by outplaying the opponent and that's what I think is fun, but not winning by trickery, which this clearly is. Deceit is a big part of this game, but not that kind of deceit. Would you be proud to win in this way? I really cannot understand. 

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Just took second at the Danbury CT SC at Gamer's Gambit! Woo! Only 9 players but we all had a good time and played some solid matches! I'll let failedparachute drop by with the details of his win and some of the other lists but I was running:

StarViper: · Prince Xizor (31)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Autothrusters (2)

· Virago (1)

Fire Control System (2)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Aggressor: · IG-88B (36)

Crack Shot (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Fire Control System (2)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

Glitterstim (2)

Z-95 Headhunter: Binayre Pirate (12)

And had some surprising success! Xizor was a real super interceptor, Iggy did work, and bumping/blocking with the Pirate was pretty solid.

Edited by Tsiegtiez

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Long time creeper, first time poster here.  I just wanted to add to the TLT stats.  I saw somebody asking how many stores didn't report and I never saw a post for Springfield Missouri.  There was 16 people and i will recall the top lists best I can.  This event happened March 5th and I never took any notes.

 

1st

Blue squadron b with FCS x2

Y with TLT and astromech for green 1 and 2 turns.

 

2nd

Soontir

Vader

Palpy shuttle

 

3rd

Luke

Named B-wing

Named A-wing

 

4th

Soontir

Vader

Palpy shuttle

 

 

Sorry I don't remember upgrade cards or all the named pilots.  This was my first tourney and as a casual player I really don't know them all.

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I interpret the bolded text about not being punished for finer points of the rules to mean that if they've been doing something incorrectly that's not within the rules but minor like bringing Raider debris, they won't get in trouble from the TO. I don't think it means that players should be forced to let their opponents perform missed triggers.

Oh I know it's common practice to move a bunch of equal PS ships at the same time and then put focus on them. I do it sometimes too. Difference is I ask permission to bend the rules like that.

This game and its surrounding community don't have to be a hugbox. What I did was 100% within the rules. Yeah, I won partially because I was deceitful. This is a competitive war game, maybe my opponent wouldn't have been vulnerable to my deceit if he didn't miss all but one of his triggers.

 

 

It is not your interpretation that matters, it is the TOs. Those are the rules. Pragmatically speaking, most of the TOs I know would side with the other player for the first offense at anything below a Premier level event.

 

 

I played 100% within the rules. That is not poor sportsmanship.

 

You received an unearned and unfair advantage. If you have issue with that perception, take it up with Alex Davy. Here's a section of his response to me in regard to the player who was doing the same thing:

 

 

 

That being said, he is obviously gaming the system to receive an unearned and unfair advantage, particularly as he waited until it would cause you problems to enforce the rules. Selective, strict enforcement of rules only when it suits one’s position is a classic win-at-all-costs move, and it’s hard to prevent since he’s technically in the right.

 

 

I don't care if you agree or not. Just be aware that inevitably you will eventually run into someone who is a better rules lawyer than you are, and you're making a yourself a target by continuing on here. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

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The issue is you letting him do it the first few turns. Giving consent. It was completely within reason for him to expect to do it again.

Exactly, that's why I let him do it the first few times so he'd do it again when it was to my advantage to deny consent.

I am not obligated to consent to missed triggers being performed. I am allowed to allow them one turn and deny them the next.

Related Question: Does anyone play against you twice on purpose?

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Just took second at the Danbury CT SC at Gamer's Gambit! Woo! Only 9 players but we all had a good time and played some solid matches! I'll let failedparachute drop by with the details of his win and some of the other lists but I was running:

StarViper: · Prince Xizor (31)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Autothrusters (2)

· Virago (1)

Fire Control System (2)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Aggressor: · IG-88B (36)

Crack Shot (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Fire Control System (2)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

Glitterstim (2)

Z-95 Headhunter: Binayre Pirate (12)

And had some surprising success! Xizor was a real super interceptor, Iggy did work, and bumping/blocking with the Pirate was pretty solid.

Thanks for the tease (and the awesome game)!

 

Hey everybody, hold onto your hats, because I brought the following list to a first place finish:

 

Zuckuss (28)

-4-LOM (1)

-Crackshot (1)

-FCS (2)

 

Palob Godhali (20)

-Predator (3)

-TLT (6)

 

Torkhil Mux (19)

-TLT (6)

 

Binarye Pirate (12)

-Feedback Array (2)

 

I went 3-1 over 4 rounds of Swiss, losing only to my last opponent Sean, in a close, slugfest of a game. Kenkirk ended the game on One Hull, and Isard + Palpatine did some serious work with his pilot ability to keep him flying. I'd give more of a recap of the top four, but there was an error in the standings that was later rectified, and I'm a tad hazy on who ended where. I believe it was myself, Tsiegtiez, Rich, and then Sean, though I may be mistaken (Tsiegtiez please correct me if I'm mistaken).

 

Rich's list:

Poe Dameron

-VI

-AT

-R2D2

 

Gold Squadron Pilot

-BTL-A4

-TLT

-R3A2

 

Gold Squadron Pilot

-TLT

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot 

 

And Sean's list:

 

Soontir Fel

PTL

AT

SD

Royal Guard Title

 

Kenkirk

Isard

Elusiveness

Engine Upgrade

Palpatine

Seismic Charge

 

And just a shout out to the great bunch of players we had. Seriously awesome games! There were at least two draws during the day, one between Poe and Miranda being unable to kill each other at time, and the other was Dengar and Han who managed to blow each other up in the last round of shooting when time was called. Further props to Sean for a Top Four finish for his first tourney!

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