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matthegod0

A Galaxy with more than just Sith and Jedi

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So I was talking with a friend about how in Star Wars the only readily apparent force using groups out there are the Jedi and the Sith. Both of which are diametrically opposed and hate each other. I was trying to figure out how that happened because the Jedi and the Sith are sort of like Religions and there are way more than just two completely opposite religions on Earth so you'd think there'd be way more in an entire galaxy and that there would be some overlap between them. That's when I started thinking.

 

According to Obi-Wan the Jedi have existed for at least 1000 generations so during that time they copied the aspects of other force using groups that they assimilated into their order. Any groups that wouldn't join they'd destroy, which makes sense given the martial aspects of their philosophy and any group that wouldn't join them could be construed of as a threat that the Republic needs protection from. From that point they came close to monopolizing how the galaxy thought of the Force and how it was taught. The Sith arose out of a desire to prevent the Jedi from achieving this spiritual monopoly and that's why their so obsessed with gaining power. The Sith know that the only way they'll destroy the juggernaut that is the Jedi order is by cutthroat tactics. Naturally I don't think either of the two groups would start out as black and white as they are in the films but over time any moderate members of either group were probably killed off by the group's enemies or even by members of their own groups. In the end of all this chaos you'd have the two completely opposite force using groups vying for power like we see in the movies.

 

So, I had a thought for a Force and Destiny campaign. What if the player characters were right on the forefront of this war between the emerging Jedi and SIth orders thousands of years before the movies? How cool would that be? I'm open to suggestions and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for any lesser Force using groups that the Sith and Jedi would conflict with or for control over them?

 

TL;DR

Do you have any cool ideas for groups of Force users that aren't Sith or Jedi?

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There's actually a whole host of other Force using traditions. It's just that the nature of Star Wars focuses on the biggest, which is the Jedi and the Sith. But if you search Wookiepedia, using like Force Traditions, you'll get a list of the other ones out there in the galaxy. There are a lot to chose from. 

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I'm not sure how much of this is canon now and how much is Legends, but it used to be that there were a variety of localized force traditions. The Jedi were a group that got together on Tython, bringing in a lot of force users from all sorts of other traditions.

 

Eventually, the ones who were light-side-only demanded that the ones who thought the dark side was useful recant. When some of them refused, they exiled them on pain of death. These dark jedi fled to Korriban, where they met the Sith, a naturally force-strong species capable of interbreeding with many humanoid species. They came to rule over these True Sith, and their sect took on the name of that species.

 

All that stuff about Darth Maul wanting to get revenge on the Jedi ultimately goes back to the original conflict - the "light" jedi persecuting the "dark" jedi. The Sith have carried a grudge ever since.

 

Revan is Legends now, but the Revanites were a group that embraced both light and dark, after the example of Revan who proved that each side of the force has its place.

 

I think some Legends stuff included the concept of "gray" jedi who used both light and dark in equal measure.

 

The Nightsisters are canon still, since they are heavily present in the Clone Wars series. They're a force mystic/magic cult on Dathomir that uses the force to empower a lot of freaky ritual stuff and are capable of doing things that jedi or sith would never even think possible.

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The movies and most media focus on the Jedi and Sith since for the Clone Wars and Rebellion Era, those are the two factions that are the major movers and shakers in terms of galactic affairs amongst the various Force users.

 

In Legends, Dooku had his own little cadre of Dark Side Adepts to help the Separatist war effort, and as others have noted there are a plethora of other Force traditions to be found throughout the galaxy, even if the majority of them are currently Legends.

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In Canon there are Jedi, SIth and other force user not directly Jedi or Sith (the Inquisitors in Rebels, for instance, is different from Sith... they told this whenever they encounter a Sith for first time...)

In Ep I says something about Qui Gonn Jinn being a "Grey Jedi" and also mentioning the Living Force Theories, but don't know when Canon ends and Legends starts...

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Grey Jedi don't exist so much in the sense that is imagined (using both the standard and dark side of the force), rather his ideology was the reason they kept him off the counsel. He was very much a practitioner of the living force, which meant that he had to follow the force and his feelings over anything else. Part of the reason why he was willing to put his neck out for Anakin so much; his gut instinct told him yes so he would train the kid whether they approved or not because the force had guided him to do so.

 

Basically, Grey Jedi is almost a stigma term to indicate that they were radicalised Jedi. By this point they had put the duty of the republic and their codes over that of the force.

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Yeah i forgot to mention "Grey Jedi" in Canon is not "someone who balance between dark and light side" but "someone who has a stigma on the council so he can't be Master" (more or less)

In canon there is no possibilities to balance between light and dark side, and everyone is either light or dark side

in FFG this is actually well played with Morality: you are light side until you drop down on the down side (below 30 morality) and you keep being dark side until rising above 70, so basically the "middle area" in the morality (31-69) is just a "you are the side you where before"

 

In Legends, Living Force vs Unifying Force is highly debated by council members and philosopher, but it's still the Force: so has a light and a bright side. Main difference is how one is supposed to face against the dark side, but neither one think about "using the dark side same as the light side".

In legends there where some "grey side force users", the most famous example is the one in KotOR videogame series, and some users on the outher rim in don't-remember-what comic series.

However, that's legends, and mostly are garbage with very little relevance on canonical aspect of the Force, so i guess is not really worth the time, unless you really whant to introduce that in your campaign. We are still talking about something like 0.5% of Force Users (and that's really few in Galactic Civil War era...)

 

Wookieepedia has all your answer; you can search for "Gray Jedi" (or directly Joleen Bindo), the Voss Mystics or Jenseraai. I remember something like "Baadou" or similar word, but i found nothing on wookieepedia so may be a word i invented in my campaign...

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The contrived dichotomy of light and dark always bugged me.

 

I don't see it as all that contrived. Some stories function very well as stark morality plays in which there is good and evil. Star Wars attempts to be this. Lucas littered Ep IV with the morality play trappings. I get that some people prefer more grey stuff ...... but then the question becomes why are you playing Star Wars and not some other game that is set up to be morally grey. 

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The contrived dichotomy of light and dark always bugged me.

 

I don't see it as all that contrived. Some stories function very well as stark morality plays in which there is good and evil. Star Wars attempts to be this. Lucas littered Ep IV with the morality play trappings. I get that some people prefer more grey stuff ...... but then the question becomes why are you playing Star Wars and not some other game that is set up to be morally grey. 

 

 

 

Han shot first.

 

 

More broadly, the Star Wars movies and other stories plainly take place in a far larger, more complicated, and less "Saturday Matinee Serials Morality" reality than Lucas was trying to give us.   I want THAT universe, not the "through this one tiny lens" universe of trying to doggedly recreate and relive the movies over and over.

Edited by MaxKilljoy

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The contrived dichotomy of light and dark always bugged me.

 

I don't see it as all that contrived. Some stories function very well as stark morality plays in which there is good and evil. Star Wars attempts to be this. Lucas littered Ep IV with the morality play trappings. I get that some people prefer more grey stuff ...... but then the question becomes why are you playing Star Wars and not some other game that is set up to be morally grey. 

 

 

 

Han shot first.

 

 

More broadly, the Star Wars movies and other stories plainly take place in a far larger, more complicated, and less "Saturday Matinee Serials Morality" reality than Lucas was trying to give us.   I want THAT universe, not the "through this one tiny lens" universe of trying to doggedly recreate and relive the movies over and over.

 

 

Then you're likely playing the wrong game and wrong setting. Lucas, and now Disney, don't seem all that interested in a more complicated universe. And being as how FFG made the game to pretty much portray the movie experience.

 

Granted I still don't think it's all that contrived. Some stories are simple black and white morality tales. There is no harm in making that type of story. And Star Wars is very up front that it wants to be that type of story. 

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The contrived dichotomy of light and dark always bugged me.

 

I don't see it as all that contrived. Some stories function very well as stark morality plays in which there is good and evil. Star Wars attempts to be this. Lucas littered Ep IV with the morality play trappings. I get that some people prefer more grey stuff ...... but then the question becomes why are you playing Star Wars and not some other game that is set up to be morally grey. 

 

 

 

Han shot first.

 

 

More broadly, the Star Wars movies and other stories plainly take place in a far larger, more complicated, and less "Saturday Matinee Serials Morality" reality than Lucas was trying to give us.   I want THAT universe, not the "through this one tiny lens" universe of trying to doggedly recreate and relive the movies over and over.

 

 

Then you're likely playing the wrong game and wrong setting. Lucas, and now Disney, don't seem all that interested in a more complicated universe. And being as how FFG made the game to pretty much portray the movie experience.

 

Granted I still don't think it's all that contrived. Some stories are simple black and white morality tales. There is no harm in making that type of story. And Star Wars is very up front that it wants to be that type of story. 

 

 

 

And what I'm saying is that there's clearly a more complicated "reality" outside the little window we're being shown by Lucas and now Disney. 

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Max and Kael, you two obviously want to play different styled games and you can both do it in Star Wars. Rogue One looks like it's supposed to be all dark and gritty like Max wants and Kael's right about how the movies are all black and white morally. Also, thanks for all the suggestions and to my knowledge there isn't any official canon that takes place before Phantom Menace and if there is I don't really care. For this campaign based on what I was talking about earlier I'm willing to throw the other stuff out the window. That said, a lot of the different groups I found on Wookiepedia sound cool...

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Thusands of years ago, Jedi chancelers of the republic did bore than put "under god" in the pledge of aliegance- they mandated every civilized world test newborns for mystical powers, and brought them to be trained in the One True Way.

 

This just leaves force users from outside the republic's control, where there is at the same time less of them, and they are less seen by outsiders. but they clearly do exist.

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Max and Kael, you two obviously want to play different styled games and you can both do it in Star Wars. Rogue One looks like it's supposed to be all dark and gritty like Max wants and Kael's right about how the movies are all black and white morally. Also, thanks for all the suggestions and to my knowledge there isn't any official canon that takes place before Phantom Menace and if there is I don't really care. For this campaign based on what I was talking about earlier I'm willing to throw the other stuff out the window. That said, a lot of the different groups I found on Wookiepedia sound cool...

 

My comments were not in relation to what I want to play. It's in relation to what Star Wars is pitched as. Also ....... I wouldn't expect the House of Mouse to make Rogue One a dark and gritty movie. 

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Max and Kael, you two obviously want to play different styled games and you can both do it in Star Wars. Rogue One looks like it's supposed to be all dark and gritty like Max wants and Kael's right about how the movies are all black and white morally. Also, thanks for all the suggestions and to my knowledge there isn't any official canon that takes place before Phantom Menace and if there is I don't really care. For this campaign based on what I was talking about earlier I'm willing to throw the other stuff out the window. That said, a lot of the different groups I found on Wookiepedia sound cool...

 

My comments were not in relation to what I want to play. It's in relation to what Star Wars is pitched as. Also ....... I wouldn't expect the House of Mouse to make Rogue One a dark and gritty movie. 

 

Why not? they made Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron...

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Why not? they made Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron...

 

If that is considered "dark and gritty", then sure Rogue One could be as well.  Not sure I would say they are though.  When the scope of movie superhero story telling includes the likes of Sin City and Watchmen, it is kind of hard to argue that "Cap wanting to save his long lost war buddy gone bad" is gritty.

 

I always find people's reactions around the conversations about the duality of the Force in Star Wars amusing.  Why do the properties of some mystic metaphysical power have to include a grey-scale just cause Han shot first?  There is an inherent irony in rejecting the light/dark duality because something does or doesn't not include grey.  It seems that most people end up arguing for the model of the Force they want...

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Gand Findsmen are a prime example of force sensitive that exist outside the norm, they use it to track their quarry through the galaxy via riturals rather than as is generally perceived. It's also not hard to imagine force users working on the fringe and finding their powers and establishing as spirits, much like a shamanistic archtype. These guys might often be employed by visitors/big game hunters to track prey/avoid wildlife/guide the party safely through hazards, a task made somewhat easier with the force.

 

As for grey and morality; both are acceptable provided it's the tone agreed on. The universe primary functions off having this uncompromising evil forcing the hero's hand, Jabba, Vader, Sidious. My comments were more made in regards of the force in that Jedi don't tap into the darkside. If they do, they are not Jedi any longer because the darkside corrupts everything it handles, turning promising young men into uncompromising murders. Sure, there's always exceptions to the rule, but those exceptions are few and far between (Ventress primarily comes to mind.).

 

The rest of the universe can be grey as can be as the star wars universe is actually extremely hostile and unforgiving to live in from our small screen views of the galaxy, but the overtone of the movies is despite all that there is always hope. It will be cool to see what spin rogue 1 puts on things.

Edited by Lordbiscuit

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Why not? they made Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron...

 

 

Winter Solider and Age of Ultron are not dark and gritty films.

 

As for why not, because they are applying their trade mark Disney money making magic to Star Wars and that means they will want a movie that the entire family can love and enjoy. You pitch a dark and gritty Star Wars movie and you get nervous parents who think their kids can't watch it. 

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They are kind of pitching it as less black/white and more gray, though. At least, that's what the director has said. Which still doesn't mean "gritty," necessarily, but not clean and tidy either. Disney isn't entirely outside the realm of more adult-focused films, such as fighting tooth and claw to dub some Studio Ghibli films, some of which are not exactly family movies.

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