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Peer and Contact Network

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1) Can PCs take Peer as they see fit, or is it something that must be agreed upon between the PC and the GM? For instance, could one of my players take Peer (Adeptus Mechanicus) three times?

 

2) Contact Network allows a character to use Fellowship instead of Influence for requisitions. If they explicitly mention requisitioning something from the Adeptus Mechanicus and have Peer (Adeptus Mechanicus), do they get a bonus to the requisition test?

 

My thoughts are:

 

1) only allow players to take Peer (1) with a group if it ties in with their background. To take greater than Peer (1) or to gain a Peer which they haven't yet associated with, they have to get the GM's permission. This usually comes about after interacting with said group during an adventure or by spending downtime to gain connections. Greater levels of Peer require greater deeds to be completed before they are available.

 

2) For items specific to that faction, Peer would apply.

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We play with GM's permission for any Peer talent a player wants, even the first one. The standard imperial factions are usually not a problem to get Peer(1) with.

 

We also play with that Peer(X) talent can be used on requisition test, though it has to make sense why that particular faction is the go to contact for a given requisition. Peer(X) can be used on both Influence and Fellowship, so Contact Network is not an issue for us on this.

Edited by Alox

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Thanks for the reply.

 

I see that Peer can get more specific. Is it possible for Peers to stack in the case where someone falls under multiple? Such as being part of some minor sect of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the PC having Peer with that sect and Adeptus Mechanicus? I would assume it would stack.

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1.) I guess I have a rather strict view, but I'm of the thought that the GM really ought to be informed of any XP expenditure and has supreme veto power over anything the players might want (it is after all, an extension of the powers given by rule 0, which is in the book). Obviously a good GM handles this effectively and generally doesn't "drop the hammer" on players most of the time. A GM shouldn't think of themselves as having their hands tied by the book just saying players can buy any talent.

 

Technically, yes, I do believe players can choose to spend XP for Peer (its not solely a "reward" talent, it can be bought if desired), but a player ought to be able to prove why their character ought to have such a talent ("Its really XP efficient for my build and gives me a flat bonus to influence" is not an explanation). Certainly, with a more social/intrigue oriented character, it really ought not to take much work than a simple affirmation that they're trying, but its more that characters can't obviously be trying to hack off a faction during the game, but when it comes to XP spending come back and say they want to be buddy-buddy with these people.

 

2.) I'd allow it, sure, however such a use would likely invoke some modifiers (while sure, Ad Mech is pretty great for getting "stuff," such a specific type of test could very well impose availablility modifiers; the Ad Mech presence at a given location may only have so many types of items on hand). Also, using peer and fellowship to try and swing these tests seems to indicate a relationship, which would go both ways. Ask much of them and they will probably start asking the players for favors (cover up for them to the inquisitor, let them borrow some item of the players, perform some odd/dangerous task here or there), failure to do this could well result in loss of the Peer talent. Supreme failure may even result in the Enemy talent.

 

As far as that last question, uncertain, I'd have to mull it over. I'm inclined to not allow it because it sounds like the player is trying to game the system.

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Thanks for the reply.

 

I see that Peer can get more specific. Is it possible for Peers to stack in the case where someone falls under multiple? Such as being part of some minor sect of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the PC having Peer with that sect and Adeptus Mechanicus? I would assume it would stack.

 

I don't like overlapping Peer talents. If a subcult is different enough from the mainstream cult, then it goes on its own Peer talents, as the subcult is not going to accept you as a friend, just because the mainstreamers do so. I guess that this is a grey area that you just have to judge case by case.

 

Also good point by KommissarK, it is a two way street, so consider what return favours the faction might want to ask for. :-)

Edited by Alox

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I posted this a while back I think in RT Forum...

 

CONTACTS

The 41st Millennium is full of information, but the things that the bold amongst our number need to know are not the kinds of things people try to make understandable or available. Word of existing opportunity, hearsay about what lowlifes and organized crime figures have been up to, dirt about who’s just snuck into port and who may be looking to make a quick getaway—this is stuff you’re not going to find through a standard search.

 

To get this information, you need contacts. Contacts come in a lot of forms. They may be the arms dealer who has a knack for coming up with armor-piercing bullets right when you need them. Or the undercover grandee who is willing to share what she knows if you give her some inside info about upcoming juicy gossip. Or the old standby, the bartender with the watchful eye and the listening ear.

 

Explorers have a roster of personal contacts that they can turn to in order to help them find work and provide useful information about what’s going on in the world. Contacts have the same types of statistics that other characters would have, but they also have two special statistics that describe their relationship to player characters. Their Loyalty rating measures the closeness of their relationship to a character, while their Connection rating illustrates how well connected they are to the world around them. The Loyalty rating ranges from 10% to 60% while the Connection rating ranges from 10% to 100%.

 

Player characters are allowed to purchase a certain amount of contacts during character creation.

 

Take your INT + FEL scores and add up that value – this is the cumulative level of Connection & Loyalty… there are only so many hours in a given duty cycle to socialize now isn’t there?!

 

Each contact as described above contains a Connection & Loyalty rating; for each % point you may assign any number of points to the maximum allowed – Loyalty again ranges from only 10% to 60% while Connection can be raised to a 100%. You may divide up these points as you like keeping in mind that each and every Contact acquired herein requires at least 10% put into both Connection and Loyalty – making each contact cost a minimum of 20% points derived from the total of your INT + FEL (as described above) 

 

After that, future contacts can only be bought or earned—each requiring either a sacrifice of time or money. Through their actions, characters can build a relationship with a contact that results in a productive exchange of information. Note that contacts do not have to be friends with the player character, or even like them. They just have to understand that there may be a benefit to sharing information with the character.

 

Endeavour or raw Profit Factor will grant additional Contacts or improve the levels (Connection / Loyalty) inherent in the ones you know already…

 

Contacts

You are who you know. In the shadows of the 41st Millennium, this is truer than you might want to believe. Contacts are NPCs who serve as sources of the information, goods, and services that keep Explorers alive and well. Often, they can’t get chip-truth about what they’ve gotten themselves into from anyone else. This section will help you get the most out of these all-important NPCs.

 

 

 

Contacts by the Numbers

Explorers and their contacts are going to see an awful lot of each other. Like other influencing agents, they should be built with the Character Creation System. Generally, they should be considered Inferior or Equal to the PCs.

 

Assume that they’re going to have the basic gear and lifestyle they need to do their day job. A privately employed detective is going to have a pistol, handcuffs, and light body armor, for instance, while commerce broker is going to have a fancy commlink and high-gelt suit. Contacts are different from other prime individuals of conveyance because they’re useful to the PCs.

 

There are two Ratings that measure just how useful they are: Connection and Loyalty.

 

Connection: This measures the contact’s influence, if any, measured on a scale of 10% to 100%. The higher the Connection Rating, the more “juice” the contact has. The Connection Rating Table describes each level and shows how they should be portrayed. A character can’t start the game with any contact with a Connection Rating higher than 60%.

 

CONNECTION RATING TABLE

Rating

Description

10%

Virtually no social influence; useful only for their specialized expertise…

20%

Has one or two resources with some skill or experience, or some minor social influence.

30%

Has a few resources to choose from, but not a lot of social influence.

40%

Knows several people in a given territory or on a world - marquis, warlord, or chieftain.

50%

Knows several people and has a moderate degree of social influence; an administratum alderman or a low-level agent of a medium-to-large merchant guild.

60%

Known and connected across his domain (system/sub-sector); regent or magistrate, notable fixer, or a mid-level agent in a large-sized merchant guild.

70%

Well-connected in their own sector, with considerable social influence; a mid-level contributor to a small realm or Second TIER entity.

80%

Knows a lot of people over a large area, and has considerable social influence; a senior agent in a large-sized merchant guild or Second TIER entity.

90%

Well-connected across a multi-sector region; a high ranking imperial agent or a detached throne asset.

100%

Well-connected Imperium-wide, with significant social influence; often holds a leadership position in a Second TIER entity.

110%

Extremely well-connected galaxy-wide, with significant social influence; mid-level controlling position in a major merchant syndicate, or First TIER entity.

120%

Galaxy power-player with extensive social influence; holds a key directing position in the Imperium of Man.

 

 

 

Loyalty: This shows you how much you can trust the contact. This is measured on a scale of 10% to 60%. The higher the Loyalty Rating, the more the contact is willing to do for the PC. The Loyalty Rating Table gives details on each level and how it should be handled.

 

LOYALTY RATING TABLE

Rating

Description

10%

May know information that a character needs and will probably reveal it—but he may keep it to himself just because he doesn't feel any particular loyalty to the character. On the other hand, contacts of this value are less likely to remember a runner's identity or existence when the "bad guys" come a-callin'.

20%

Strictly Business. The relationship is purely mercenary, based solely on economics. The people involved may not even like each other, and they won't offer any sort of preferential treatment. If and when the contact does remember the explorer, he is unlikely to have any idea where the character can be found.

30%

Regular. The relationship is still all business, with a modicum of mutual respect, like regulars or favored clients. Such a contacts of this level or lower do not feel sufficient loyalty to the character to lie on his or her behalf.

40%

Acquaintance. Knows the explorer and deals with him on a semi-regular basis. The people in the relationship are friendly, but calling them actual friends might be stretching it. The contact is willing to be inconvenienced in small ways for the character but won't take a fall for him.

50%

Buddy. There's actual friendship here, or at least solid mutual respect. The contact will go out of his way for the character if needed. Such a contacts of this level or higher feel sufficient loyalty to the character to lie on his or her behalf.

60%

Got Your Back. The parties know and trust each other, and have for some time. The contact will back the character even in risky situations. The contact knows the runner well and interacts with him or her on a regular basis

70%

Friend for Life. The contact and character will go to the wall for each other, if that's what it takes. The character may not even think of his or her friend as a contact, but the explorer will surely find what that person does or knows useful at some point.
 

80%

Faith - such is the zeal that cements the faithful to a person or cause they may have never met with…

90%

Interpersonal Love, family, friends, and couples...

100%

Blindly devoted / zealotry; to the character and whatever their cause, rivals the commitment of either love or faith in this case it can be unrequited!

 

First TIER Entities / Organizations

  • Inquisition
    • Ordo Hereticus
    • Ordo Malleus
    • Ordo Xenos
    • Ordo Sicarius (Minor Order)
    • Ordo Diologus (Minor Order)
    • Officio Inquisitorus Planetia
    • Officio of Internal Prosecution
  • High Lords of Terra
  • Inquisitorial Representative — Permanent Seat
  • Lord Commander Militant
  • Master of the Administratum — Permanent Seat
  • Fabricator-General of Mars — Permanent Seat
  • Ecclesiarch — Permanent Seat
  • Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites — Permanent Seat
  • Paternoval Envoy of the Navigators — Permanent Seat
  • Master of the Astronomican — Permanent Seat
  • Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum — Permanent Seat
  • Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica — Permanent Seat
  • Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard — Rotating Seat
  • Lord Commander of the Segmentum Solar — Rotating Seat
  • Cardinal of the Holy Synod of Terra — Rotating Seat
  • Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas — Rotating Seat
  • Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes — Rotating Seat
  • Chancellor of the Estate Imperium (Equerry Primaris) — Rotating Seat
  • Speaker of the Chartist Captains — Rotating Seat
  • Senatorum Imperialis
  • Callidus Temple
  • Culexus Temple
  • Eversor Temple
  • Vanus Temple
  • Venenum Temple
  • Vindicare Temple
  • Officio Assassinorum
  • Adeptus Astartes Praesus
  • The Adeptus Terra (See Below)
  • Adeptus Astartes
  • Navis Nobilite

Second TIER Entities / Organizations (Normal Character Options; Tier 2)

  • Adeptus Administratum
    • Officio Medicae
    • Officio Agricultae
    • Officio Monetariat
  • Departmento Munitorum
  • Imperial Guard
  • Imperial Navy
  • Officio Commissariat
  • Officio Sabatorium
  • Departmento Tacticae
  • Adeptus Arbites
  • Cardinals Astra
  • Frateris Clergy
  • Adepta Sororitas
    • Orders Militant
      • Order of the Bloody Rose
      • Order of Our Martyred Lady
      • Order of the Valorous Heart
      • Order of the Sacred Rose
      • Order of the Ebon Chalice
      • Order of the Argent Shroud
    • Orders Hospitallier
    • Order of the Eternal Candle
    • Order of Serenity
    • Order of the Cleansing Water
    • Order of the Torch
    • Order of the Key
    • Order of the Gate
    • Order of the Holy Seal
    • Order of the Sacred Coin
    • Order of the Holy Word
    • Order of the Quill
    • Order of the Sacred Oath
    • Order of the Lexicon
    • Order of the Blessed Inquiry
    • Orders Famulous
    • Order of the Eternal Gate
    • Orders Dialogous
    • Orders Sabine
    • Orders Pronatus
  • Missionarus Galaxia
  • Frateris Militia
  • Schola Progenium
  • Adeptus Astronomica
  • Guild Astropathicus
  • Adeptus Explorator
  • Divisio Alchemys
  • Divisio Biologis
  • Divisio Genetor
  • Divisio Cybernetica
  • Divisio Metallurg
  • Divisio Psykana
  • Divisio Invigila
  • Skitarii
  • Collegia Titanica — also Adeptus Titanicus
    • Divisio Militaris
    • Divisio Mandati
    • Divisio Telepathica
    • Divisio Investigatus
  • Centurio Ordinatus
  • Departmento Magistratum
  • Adeptus Ministorum
  • Adeptus Astra Telepathica
  • Adeptus Mechanicus
  • Adeptus Custodes
  • Planetary Lords

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Hmmm. It's a rather interesting idea, though its application looks awfully abstracted and in some ways not very representative:

 

Why are the Astartes considered to be more a valuable contact than the Imperial Navy or the Adeptus Titanicus, and why are they counted as a singular entity to begin with? Knowing one Chapter Master doesn't mean the next one is giving a frag.

 

Likewise, it feels a bit unrealistic whenever "The Imperial Guard" or "The Imperial Navy" are counted as single contacts. For the Navy it may still be justified, but the Guard's organisation is a mess and the Imperium regularly misplaces entire regiments. Personally, I would at least separate these contacts into Segmentae, though Sectors may probably be a smarter choice for a Rogue Trader game -- otherwise you might just as well keep it as single contacts, for I assume few Rogue Trader campaigns are going to switch from one Segmentum into another. Or is this why you've listed them this way to begin with?

 

There is also a huge degree of overlap in some of the entities. For example, having a contact with ties to the Ecclesiarch should also yield a degree of influence over the Senatorum Imperialis, the Frateris Clergy, the Adepta Sororitas, the Cardinals Astra, and so on, yet they too are listed as individual entities with no apparent distinguishment between a player picking them individually or just buying the Ecclesiarch. The same is true for the Grand Master of the Assassinorum, and a whole bunch of others.

 

I guess to me it feels like the right approach, but this tiering just looks a bit weird to me. Perhaps it would be better to start from the bottom (priced according to both usefulness and availability) and then work your way up, "re-pricing" those contacts that combine multiple lower-tier entities (making them more expensive due to the resources they're linked to)? If you're interested I could try whipping up a quick example of what I'd have in mind.

 

Either way, kudos for keeping to putter around with the rules. Always fun to read new ideas! :)

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I'm up for improvements on this - I believe the analog I drew from was Shadowrun - though I don't know what edition LOL ;)

 

I did this way a whiles baq

 

I think as you said Lynate - the hierarchy needs tooling first - your insight into 40k is way better than my own

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Ouphhh... this took me way longer than expected; I think I had to start over three times as I tried multiple approaches, including a "web"-style chart with circles and stuff. Imperial hierarchy is complicated! :D

 

I'm not entirely satisfied with the result, but it is at least somewhat close to how I'd approach the topic. :/

 

EkRUxOM.jpg

 

PS: Hahah @ Shadowrun -- I knew something felt familiar about that! ;)

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missing sector governor (is there also a sub-sector governor?)

 

Good point! The sector governor can play a big role in a DH game, after all. I suppose he would classify as a Sovereign or even Court tier contact? It may well depend on how big and important the sector actually is ... in the same sense, a governor of a more important world could be Master or Sovereign tier.

 

Not sure about sub-sector governors, but as they are a specific entity it seems likely. Such governors fulfil several positions simultaneously, anyways - a sector governor is, ultimately, just a planetary governor who has authority over other planetary governors in their sector. The same might be true for sub-sector governors, who would then act like "proxies" for the sector governor.

 

On a sidenote, I'm sure there are a couple more contacts missing, but with these examples it should at least be easier to fill in other ideas. :)

 

Also, the "Abbot" should really read "Head Abbot" as he's the boss of the facility. And it should be noted that Preachers can summon Frateris Militia!

Edited by Lynata

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All I can say is wow Lynata!

 

What I'll do is re-dress graphically for everyone - tho I do want to wait for final improvements if any are coming...

 

I can ATM post this on the same "letterhead" native to the Rogue Trader book (i.e. I have the graphic blank pages for RT)

 

If anyone has the DH letterhead in PNG, JPG, or PDF format link me to the file or files?

 

I'll hold off till next week say about MON or TUE

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missing sector governor (is there also a sub-sector governor?)

 

Good point! The sector governor can play a big role in a DH game, after all. I suppose he would classify as a Sovereign or even Court tier contact? It may well depend on how big and important the sector actually is ... in the same sense, a governor of a more important world could be Master or Sovereign tier.

 

The Calixis sector governor is definitely Court tier, but for a smaller sector it could be Sovereign.

 

And the Malfi governor is on Sovereign level.

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Agreed. Even where there isn't an explicit "Lord Subsector" there's usually a 'subsector capital' so the respective planetary governor would be, if not the lord sub, at least very much first amongst equals and effectively sovereign tier.

 

The lord sector is definitely court tier.

 

 

I would probably also comment that an astartes captain is not an unreasonable entity (given how often crusades/battle companies operate independently) to list, and would tentatively suggest Master Tier. This is overstating his actual combat power (he definitely doesn't have the same firepower at his disposal than, as, a Titan Legion!) but he has more discretion in using it; a company deployed generally has a strike cruiser and interface craft at its disposal, so can decide "we're going to intervene in battle X" in a way most imperial forces couldn't.

 

 

Theoretically, Chartist Traders would fall under the Administratum (who issue the charters) but don't pass through the Navy hierarchy. Still, merchant ships aren't exactly going to ignore navy orders, so fair enough. Rogue Traders, on the other hand, have an unrestricted license of movement and a rogue trader captain is very much a sovereign tier entity, even within imperial space.

 

'Lord-captain' is a fair one to flag up for Commodore - Lord-captain is a 'tag' generally assigned to Capital ship captains (hence why Rogue Traders like to assign themselves the label); according to the novel Shadow Point, the Imperial Navy has a distinct 'tier' of rank in captains between escorts and capital ships, because when you have multiple units together which don't have an officially sanctioned chain of command (where you have multiple ships in a formally created squadron), command between captains who just happen to be in the same place at once is not determined by seniority of rank but by command of the most capable unit - i.e. a battlecruiser captain can pull rank on a cruiser captain, even if he's his junior (although having earned command of a battlecruiser would normally imply you're the senior officer)

 

Do primaris battle-psykers fall under the Astra Telepathica or the imperial guard?

 

 

 

Last thing worth noting (because it does come up when poking around the imperial guard) is the Officio Prefectus - the Commissariat is part of the Imperial Guard and Navy, but I think their chain of command comes direct from the Lord(s) Millitant - an individual commissar is somewhere between local asset and master tier depending on rank and reputation, but more importantly there's not much hierarchical baggage between him and the high lords (much like the inquisition).

 

The Ordo Tempestus/Storm Trooper Corps is organised much like the guard - they just 'cut out' at regiment level because they're attached at segmentum command level.

 

 

Warmaster/Lord Solar probably belongs in the Guard/Navy hierarchy somewhere around sovereign tier.

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I would probably also comment that an astartes captain is not an unreasonable entity (given how often crusades/battle companies operate independently) to list, and would tentatively suggest Master Tier. This is overstating his actual combat power (he definitely doesn't have the same firepower at his disposal than, as, a Titan Legion!) but he has more discretion in using it; a company deployed generally has a strike cruiser and interface craft at its disposal, so can decide "we're going to intervene in battle X" in a way most imperial forces couldn't.

 

Agreed. I was actually considering this already for much the same reasons, although it'd depend heavily on the Chapter in question, or even the company. For example, within the Ultramarines, the captain of the 8th has little influence or autonomy, but the captain of the 5th is practically a feudal lord all by himself. This is due to the Ultramarines attaching a bunch of secondary functions and titles to their captains, some of whom are more independent/important/powerful than others.
 
As such, it will always come down to interpretation, circumstances and GM fiat, but I suppose it should at least be listed as an option. Whenever a Dark Heresy character has any dealings with a Marine captain, he is bound to be talking to one of the important ones anyways, rather than one of the Reserve companies which are more or less just administrative posts.
 
Coincidentally, this also seems to line up nicely compared to the Canoness Commander, who is likewise the leader of a subordinate detachment, once again confirming similarities in the organisation of both factions as pointed out in the Codex Imperialis! Bonus consistency ftw. :D

 

'Lord-captain' is a fair one to flag up for Commodore - Lord-captain is a 'tag' generally assigned to Capital ship captains (hence why Rogue Traders like to assign themselves the label); according to the novel Shadow Point, the Imperial Navy has a distinct 'tier' of rank in captains between escorts and capital ships

 

Sounds like the rank of Line-Captain (or captain of the line, or ship-of-the-line captain), which I think I'd prefer as it keeps the "lord" as a prefix reserved for people more important than admirals, preventing confusion. For Rogue Traders it is fine as it denotes their importance even outside the ship, hinting at the power they hold over various assets they own elsewhere, but for the navy I'd prefer to keep it separate.
 
This is very much a matter of headcanon, though; anyone who actually wanted to use this chart can of course switch or rename things as they see fit. The one problem I see would be where to actually insert this one, as such a contact would have to be somewhere between Captain and Commodore?
 
It might be best to just think of it as a better Captain-contact, similar to how some IG Colonels and Nobles would be more important than others. Or some Space Marine Captains, to return to the above.
 
Do you think stuff like this should be accounted for by adding a "+0.5" kind of invisible tier (basically, just a slightly higher cost) to some types of contact depending on the individual's influence, or is this something the GM should account for by themselves? Could always add an appropriate disclaimer at least.
 
 
Also, would there be any interest in an expanded / "updated" chart to include some of the missing titles mentioned in this thread, such as the Lord Solar or Commissars etc?

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Always happy to see something you can point people at as a resource.

 

This is due to the Ultramarines attaching a bunch of secondary functions and titles to their captains, some of whom are more independent/important/powerful than others.

 
As such, it will always come down to interpretation, circumstances and GM fiat, but I suppose it should at least be listed as an option. Whenever a Dark Heresy character has any dealings with a Marine captain, he is bound to be talking to one of the important ones anyways, rather than one of the Reserve companies which are more or less just administrative posts.
 
Agreed. The 'Battle Company' posts are the most likely to be encountered, for obvious reasons; they end up off-world most often - the First Captain, despite his importance, rarely sees much of his theoretical command in the same place at once as veterans tend to be doled out to other formations in sub-company strike forces unless it's all really gone to doo-doo; his primary job in practice is the Chapter Master's 2iC, whilst the reserve companies are mostly training commands or at least sent out 'attached' to a battle company.
 
The one exception (see Sons of Dorn) is the 10th Captain; as Master of Novices, he's responsible for recruitment. If a Chapter draws its recruits from a single world, all well and good, but if the chapter has multiple recruitment worlds (or is fleet-based), he is quite likely to be encountered on recruitment trips. After all, with an implied (by Fabulous Bill) 90-99% failure/death rate during recruitment, you need lots of warm bodies to keep a chapter up to strength, even if you don't lose astartes from the line very often.
 
The comment about 'other titles' is, to be fair, not by any means exclusive to the Adeptus Astartes. Once you get into Peer Of The Imperium territory, a lot of individuals get multiple 'hats'.
 
A Chapter Master is usually also the recognised Planetary Governor for his chapter's homeworld. Lord Macragge also happens to be the Lord Sector Ultramar......and since PDF and SDF forces report to a planetary governor, they're usually accorded a nominal Colonel or General's rank in the Militarum. Which is in direct violation of the prohibition of the Astartes' rule that they can't command 'mortal' troops, but one assumes that Calgar's various legal personalities aren't on speaking terms.
 
Equally, on several shrine worlds we've seen (Certus Minor from Legion of the Damned if anyone wants a specific example), the civil power (planetary governor) is co-located in the body of the senior churchman (Cardinal). Again, specifically creating a separate legal individual to allow him to command SDF forces without instantly being flambéed by the Hereticus (the PDF in this case was less of an issue as 'ground forces' security is in the hands of the Adepta Sororitas except where specificly under immediate threat, where one assumes they're classed under the frateris militia 'get out clause')
 

 

Coincidentally, this also seems to line up nicely compared to the Canoness Commander, who is likewise the leader of a subordinate detachment, once again confirming similarities in the organisation of both factions as pointed out in the Codex Imperialis! Bonus consistency ftw.
The one point which needs poking there (dependent on people's view) is the issue of Fleet assets; its always been a bit unclear what ships they have access to, and interstellar mobility is a big issue to a contact's value - for sororitas it's less of an issue admittedly as commandery/preceptory scale forces will usually be stationed on big, politically important shrine worlds; if you're trying to get a contact to provide influence and forces that are useful to an inquisitorial warband, having the local canoness commander pass word to the Palatine commander of the local mission to loan out a squad of elohim veterans is probably more than enough. for most purposes.
 
Daemonifuge did include the concept of an Ecclesiarchal battleship, but the decree passive makes that seem highly unlikely. It could be a 'loaned' navy ship, but then that's subject to the navy pulling it out from under you, and it's not like the Canoness can legally issue orders to a Black Ship, regardless of how many people she nominally has on board.
 
 
Also, one other thing worth noting: the Titan Legions/Force Worlds.
 
There is a bit of stratification amongst forge worlds - the 'big names' like Ryza or Stygies often have treaties where they provide STC patterns under what sounds like license to other, lesser forges. Plus, there are Knight worlds sworn direct to the Mechanicus rather than to their local Lord Sector.
 
Equally, whilst a Titan Legion's Grand Master/Legate/Whatever title you want to use this week is definitely subordinate to the Fabricator Locum of his 'home forge' they are generally a major world. A lot of forges (such as Orestes in Titanicus) only rate a partial legio detatchment from somewhere else, and where you have a full legion deployed, their commander will (politely but firmly) tell the local hierarchy where to get off.
 

 

Do you think stuff like this should be accounted for by adding a "+0.5" kind of invisible tier (basically, just a slightly higher cost) to some types of contact depending on the individual's influence, or is this something the GM should account for by themselves? Could always add an appropriate disclaimer at least.
Yes, I don't think it necessarily needs capturing in specific rules.
 
Some individuals are much more important than their 'nominal' rank implies; a Legio Grand Master is always an incredibly powerful individual (because he's got enough military potential at his disposal to win wars by itself and is personally sat behind the gunsights of enough firepower to obliterate an astartes captain's command in less time than it takes to make a cup of tea). However, a Divisio Mandati (rather than Divisio Militaris) Grand Master is commander of an expedition with subordinate Ecclesiarchy, Administratum and Arbites elements in the order's 'travelling assizes' role, giving him a lot of non-military influence.
 
The 'tiers' are nice, easy reference - both implying their importance and power, and also the difficulty in contacting them and or compelling them to do something; well-disposed to you or not, getting a sovereign tier power to do something not in their own best interest should take active work, not just a phone call, and actually getting access to a court tier entity to ask for the favour in the first place should be a minor endeavour by itself.....
Edited by Magnus Grendel

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The one exception (see Sons of Dorn) is the 10th Captain; as Master of Novices, he's responsible for recruitment. If a Chapter draws its recruits from a single world, all well and good, but if the chapter has multiple recruitment worlds (or is fleet-based), he is quite likely to be encountered on recruitment trips. After all, with an implied (by Fabulous Bill) 90-99% failure/death rate during recruitment, you need lots of warm bodies to keep a chapter up to strength, even if you don't lose astartes from the line very often.

 

90-99% failure rate sounds a bit undoable, if we consider the geneseed requirement already filtering huge parts of the population, and then most Chapters have crazy redundant requirements on top of that, like the Salamanders only accepting you if you're also a good blacksmith. Given that the vast majority of Chapters only recruit from a single planet, and one that has only feral or feudal levels of population density ...
Was that from one of the novels? Or, given that it was Fabius Bile, was it perhaps something to do with turning normal cultists into CSM?
 
Good point on the Captain of the 10th, though! Granted, I imagine most of the recruitment is done by proxies, but I could still see him travelling around. The only issue is I wouldn't see him travelling outside Ultramar, I guess, and how likely is it players are going to be there?
But I'd just chalk this up to individual circumstances. Every campaign can be different, plus this chart isn't meant to apply to the Ultras only, anyways. ;)

 

A Chapter Master is usually also the recognised Planetary Governor for his chapter's homeworld. Lord Macragge also happens to be the Lord Sector Ultramar......and since PDF and SDF forces report to a planetary governor, they're usually accorded a nominal Colonel or General's rank in the Militarum. Which is in direct violation of the prohibition of the Astartes' rule that they can't command 'mortal' troops, but one assumes that Calgar's various legal personalities aren't on speaking terms.

 

I believe this rule is intended to apply only to not having command authority over the Imperial Guard or other Imperial forces; all Astartes Chapter Masters are feudal lords over their domain, and every planet is bound to have some non-Marine defenders. The decree is just to prevent Marines from taking command of Guard regiments like in the Heresy.

 

It's a bit like the Imperial Navy having its own armsmen and occasionally using them as infantry (like during boarding combat or as guards for planetary facilities), even though army and fleet are supposed to be separate.

 

The one point which needs poking there (dependent on people's view) is the issue of Fleet assets; its always been a bit unclear what ships they have access to, and interstellar mobility is a big issue to a contact's value - for sororitas it's less of an issue admittedly as commandery/preceptory scale forces will usually be stationed on big, politically important shrine worlds; if you're trying to get a contact to provide influence and forces that are useful to an inquisitorial warband, having the local canoness commander pass word to the Palatine commander of the local mission to loan out a squad of elohim veterans is probably more than enough. for most purposes.

 

2nd edition Codex Imperialis mentioned the two Primary Convents (Ophelia VII and Terra) maintaining their own fleets under command of the Prioress, but yeah, it was sadly never a topic discussed in detail and to my knowledge just didn't come up in later editions .. apart from official rules for Dominica-pattern Drop Pods in a 3rd edition issue of Citadel Journal.
 
There was also this fairly cool but ancient (RT-era) description from the largely defunct Yahoo! discussion group where Andy Hoare used to post ages ago, but I'm not sure if this material ever went to print. If I had to guess it sounds like something from BFG Magazine:
 
"Though the Ministorum maintains no warships or regimental transports, relying on the Imperial Navy for protection from space-borne foes, each Order operates a fleet of transport craft, ranging from single-detachment troopships to high speed corvettes. In lieu of the capability to engage in full-scale fleet actions, the Sororitas' ships are engineered for maximum speed through the warp, allowing the Orders to deploy their troops anywhere in the Imperium. The longest deployment distance, all other factors being equal, is the Eastern Fringe beyond Kar Duniash and Okassis, which the major Orders can reach in eight weeks. However, the small size and purely defensive weaponry of these craft require the Sisterhood to seek assistance from the Imperial Navy in cases where large-scale deployment is required, or when troopships are likely to come under attack from hostile forces. The Imperial Navy has officially protested Sororitas transports carrying weapons at all in an effort to force the disbanding of the transport fleets and make the Ministorum entirely reliant on the Navy for transport. However, the Navy is unwilling to propose outlawing weaponry on all non-Navy vessels, as this would increase the need for Navy vessels to protect civilian freighters to unsustainable levels."
 
I liked both the detail of the description as well as how it hints at the complex, at times competitive relationship between Imperial factions (in this case the Sisterhood and the Navy), so I've adopted it for my headcanon even though I was unable to track down the original source so far.
 
In essence, I think the text neatly bridges the apparent gap between the fleets mentioned in Codex Imperialis and the basics of the Decree Passive -- which these "we're not warships" vessels would skirt in a similar way as the "we're not a standing army" Frateris Militia and the "we're not men under arms" Battle Sisters themselves do. ;)

 

Daemonifuge did include the concept of an Ecclesiarchal battleship, but the decree passive makes that seem highly unlikely. It could be a 'loaned' navy ship, but then that's subject to the navy pulling it out from under you, and it's not like the Canoness can legally issue orders to a Black Ship, regardless of how many people she nominally has on board.

 

Yeah, the Hammer of Thor, although specified as Ecclesiarchy flagship, was later clarified* to be "a vessel seconded by the Imperial Navy" (for several millennia) -- this detail was mentioned in the Villainy & Infamy series on Games Workshop's own website. I'd say it fits nicely to the influence the church can exert on individual officials, exploiting religious fealty for its own political gains ("The Church appreciates your donation, my dear Lord-Admiral. Aye, blessed be thy soul, Him-on-Earth will look kindly upon such a grand display of faith!").
It's the same kind of trick the Confessors occasionally pull on the Imperial Guard to have regiments join in a War of Faith.
 
One would assume this is a blatant breach of the Decree Passive, too, but as per 2E C:SoB, Imperial Law allows any faithful citizen to join the Church in defending the faith as long as they do it voluntarily (see Frateris Militia). It's amazing how nicely the setting sometimes portrays a huge bureaucracy acting against itself with rules countermanding other rules!
 
 
(*: Daemonifuge is not a direct studio source but rather a Black Library Product, which tends to mean discrepancies with codex material due to writers having different ideas/opinions. However, sometimes GW does publish ancillary material that includes clarifications or even minor retcons to restore consistency between sources, and as Daemonifuge was a fairly big project for Black Library at the time, it was referenced in White Dwarf as well as on the main GW website's fluff section ... back when it still had one)

 

However, a Divisio Mandati (rather than Divisio Militaris) Grand Master is commander of an expedition with subordinate Ecclesiarchy, Administratum and Arbites elements in the order's 'travelling assizes' role, giving him a lot of non-military influence.

 

Hmm, this sounds a bit weird. The Legios are part of the Mechanicus, which is separate from the Adeptus Terra and the Adeptus Ministorum. They have nothing to do with each other (so much so that the Arbites and the Battle Sisters have their own mechanics); what would a Ministorum cleric do in an AdMech party? One would assume the AdMech would prefer to keep the Ecclesiarchy as far away as possible, not just because of the religious conflict but also because of their ongoing rivalry when it comes to recovering archaeotech.

Edited by Lynata

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90-99% failure rate sounds a bit undoable, if we consider the geneseed requirement already filtering huge parts of the population, and then most Chapters have crazy redundant requirements on top of that, like the Salamanders only accepting you if you're also a good blacksmith. Given that the vast majority of Chapters only recruit from a single planet, and one that has only feral or feudal levels of population density ...

Was that from one of the novels? Or, given that it was Fabius Bile, was it perhaps something to do with turning normal cultists into CSM?

 

It's from Sons Of Dorn. Note that the ninety-something percent failure rate with Imperial marines is not "from Geneseed Implantation" but "from an Imperial Fists recruitment mission turning up on a battlefield on a world somewhere, waving a handheld auspex and saying 'You'll do. Coming?'*".

 

In the aforementioned book, the Captain of the 10th manages to fill a strike cruiser's Thunderhawk complement 'full to bursting' with potential neophytes - the description implying 30-40 people in each for a total of a hundred or so - and by the time the Apothecary, Librarian, Chaplain and Scout-Sergeant (in that order) are through with them, there are five who get presented to Pugh once the ship gets back to the Phalanx. The others aren't necessarily dead; some are, some are seconded to the ship's crew as serfs, one gets turned into a servitor. The vast majority die before they ever get any implants - it's not stated exactly but implied that a couple of dozen get that far, and then the remainder suffer abreaction to the earlier implants and associated chem-treatments (aside from one fethwit who screws up using the pain-glove and....yeah....not a nice way to die).

 

* obviously this was done with rather more verve and ceremony in the book itself, but the basic outline is there.

 

It'd depend on the chapter. Nomad Predation Chapters like the Carcharodons just draft the population of a planet whenever they need manpower. Chapters with a defined 'homeworld' would generally recruit only from that world. But there are plenty of chapters with a multi-system 'domain', and there are also plenty of 'fleet based' chapters. In the case of the latter, the example of Taelos implies that the 10th company (as with most companies) does possess a nominally assigned strike cruiser, and that it's generally sent off on recruiting runs; it's massively over-armed for the job, of course, but an astartes chapter does not take the safety of future neophytes lightly.

 

"Though the Ministorum maintains no warships or regimental transports, relying on the Imperial Navy for protection from space-borne foes, each Order operates a fleet of transport craft, ranging from single-detachment troopships to high speed corvettes. In lieu of the capability to engage in full-scale fleet actions, the Sororitas' ships are engineered for maximum speed through the warp, allowing the Orders to deploy their troops anywhere in the Imperium. The longest deployment distance, all other factors being equal, is the Eastern Fringe beyond Kar Duniash and Okassis, which the major Orders can reach in eight weeks. However, the small size and purely defensive weaponry of these craft require the Sisterhood to seek assistance from the Imperial Navy in cases where large-scale deployment is required, or when troopships are likely to come under attack from hostile forces. The Imperial Navy has officially protested Sororitas transports carrying weapons at all in an effort to force the disbanding of the transport fleets and make the Ministorum entirely reliant on the Navy for transport. However, the Navy is unwilling to propose outlawing weaponry on all non-Navy vessels, as this would increase the need for Navy vessels to protect civilian freighters to unsustainable levels."

 

 

Sounds fair enough; Essenitally light transports, which let you deploy troops somewhere but wouldn't let you carry out a planetary assault. against anywhere with decent orbital defence. That'd also pair up with the Codex:Witch-hunters restriction that (unlike Codex:Daemonhunters) orbital strikes were only available with an inquisitor on hand.

 

Hmm, this sounds a bit weird. The Legios are part of the Mechanicus, which is separate from the Adeptus Terra and the Adeptus Ministorum. They have nothing to do with each other (so much so that the Arbites and the Battle Sisters have their own mechanics); what would a Ministorum cleric do in an AdMech party? One would assume the AdMech would prefer to keep the Ecclesiarchy as far away as possible, not just because of the religious conflict but also because of their ongoing rivalry when it comes to recovering archaeotech.

Nonetheless it's a canonical thing. It's a specific kind of Legio. Titan Legions, as described in Adeptus Titanicus, Titan Legions, and a few other things since, fall into one of four branches:

  • Divisio Militaris - The Military Orders. What you normally think of when you say 'Titan Legion' - a combat formation of thirty to a hundred and fifty titans, commanded by a Princeps issuing orders like:

"Moderati?"

"Yes, Princeps?"

"See those Orks?"

"Yes, Princeps."

"I don't want to."

"Yes, Princeps."

  • Divisio Investigatus - The Research Orders. Much smaller legions (indeed every non militaris legio is much smaller than the millitaris ones) Responsible for development of weaponry. The adeptus mechanicus does occasionally design brand new guns for very specific purposes (the Centurio Ordinatus has a specific responsibility for this) and Divisio Investigatus Legio units have responsibility for 'field-testing' the idea of strapping such dangerous innovations to the Mechanicus' precious God-Machines. Some of which is experimental testing on forgeworlds, other times extremely carefully controlled exposure to battlefield conditions. They also have (as most Mechanicus 'research' actually means 'combat archaeology') a close relationship with Explorator fleets, and most titans assigned to Explorators will be from Divisio Investigatus legions. Not that that affects their competence as combat units one bit...
  • Divisio Telepathica - They don't exist. Honest. Rumours of such an organisation are both hearsay and complete heresy. Shhh. In practical terms by far the rarest military unit the Imperium has to offer. Psi-Titans are essentially war engine class units designed to engage psychic and daemonic threats on that scale so (fortunately) it's not like you need them often. Which is good, because finding an individual with (a) the tactical intelligence and mental strength to serve as a Titan Princeps and is also a high-level Psyker is like finding a lottery-winning Olympian who plays international chess in his spare time....
  • Divisio Mandati - The Executive Orders. In the original description, Mandati units were always Emperor-class titans, but in practice there are always exceptions to rules like this. Mandati legios essentially serve as, as described, "travelling assizes" - they get assigned to a fleet of all the Adeptus Terra's paraphernalia (arbites, administratum, etc, etc). When you hear about worlds in the background who "only get contacted by the Imperium once in a generation", then that's a Mandati expedition - they turn up, park outside your planetary capital, and the scribes assess your economy and tithe potential, arbites update your laws and judge outstanding lex imperialis cases, missionaries preach the word of the god-emperor and check for any doctrinal divergence, and so on and so forth, whilst camped under the reassuringly imposing presence of an Imperial Titan.
Edited by Magnus Grendel

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It's from Sons Of Dorn. Note that the ninety-something percent failure rate with Imperial marines is not "from Geneseed Implantation" but "from an Imperial Fists recruitment mission turning up on a battlefield on a world somewhere, waving a handheld auspex and saying 'You'll do. Coming?'*".

 

Ah, okay. From how you describe it, I assume that is what I was referring to with "geneseed requirement". Makes no sense to recruit anyone who won't accept your implants, after all, regardless of how awesome they are in all other regards.

 

It'd depend on the chapter. Nomad Predation Chapters like the Carcharodons just draft the population of a planet whenever they need manpower. Chapters with a defined 'homeworld' would generally recruit only from that world. But there are plenty of chapters with a multi-system 'domain', and there are also plenty of 'fleet based' chapters. In the case of the latter, the example of Taelos implies that the 10th company (as with most companies) does possess a nominally assigned strike cruiser, and that it's generally sent off on recruiting runs; it's massively over-armed for the job, of course, but an astartes chapter does not take the safety of future neophytes lightly.

 

I assume it's also a matter of status/pride -- as a Space Marine, you're going to want to travel in a warship, not some semi-civilian hauler.

 

It's worth noting that, as far as I've read, the Astartes generally cannot recruit from anywhere they wish; they either have defined fiefs over whose population they lord, or (for the fleet-based ones) have deals with various planetary governments. For example, Index Astartes mentions Necromunda's hive lords allowing the Imperial Fists to recruit from their population in gratitude for their role in the world's defence against an Ork Waaagh. Likewise, the Relictors Chapter lost its recruitment rights to their homeworld due to an Inquisitorial decree, and are "now forced to gather potential acolytes from amongst the populations they encountered during their penitent crusade" beyond Imperial borders.

 

I assume in all other cases it would be a conflict of interest with the three major Imperial Adepta who have primary recruitment rights in the form of tithe (although, given the small number of people the Marines would be interested in, it's safe to say that this is merely a political **** swinging contest between politicians).

 

Which is good, because finding an individual with (a) the tactical intelligence and mental strength to serve as a Titan Princeps and is also a high-level Psyker is like finding a lottery-winning Olympian who plays international chess in his spare time....

 

Plus, don't they accept only male pilots for some reason? I recall this being one of the controversial topics as the new codex came out. If true, this'd slash the pool of potential recruits by -50% even before all other requirements are applied.

 

Nonetheless it's a canonical thing.

 

Well, ... "canon" and 40k -- though I assume that when you word it this way it's from the new AdMech codex?

 

Also, gratitude for the detailed description! If the Divisio Mandati is a mixed "enforcement expedition" for a show of strength, I guess it makes perfect sense to have various parts of other Adepta participate for their own reasons. Still not sure about the whole subordination schpiel, but I suppose I can interpret it as a battle command kind of deal, in that these elements are usually free to do "their thing" but come under overall tactical leadership of the Princeps when there's trouble. After all, he's the one with the biggest guns, and it makes sense to have a unified command to coordinate strategy.

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