Sword-Thain and character leaves play

[JanB 85]

Hi folks,

 

perhaps you can help me with some rulings about Schwert-Than (Sword-thain)

 

in another thread Caleb was quoted that an ally which is put into play by Sneak attack and then switched to be a hero by Sword-thain must not get back into your hand because the ally played by Sneak attack is no longer in play.

 

As a result of this quote .. the ally leaves play somehow, right?

so, what about using responses which triggers if a character or ally leaves play?

can i use such responses if Sword-Thain is used?

 

e.g.

Heldenhaftes Opfer (Valiant Sacrifice)

Horn von Gondor (Horn of Gondor)

Éomer (Éomer)

Edited January 6, 2016 by JanB

[NathanH 330]

The card hasn't left play, it's just had its type changed from Ally to Hero.

 

"An ally leaves play" is just shorthand for "a card has left play and its card type was Ally".

Edited January 6, 2016 by NathanH

[JanB 85]

the card has not physically left play, that's right, but with sneak attack you bring an ally into play, with sword thain you change the card type from ally to hero, after that the ally is no longer in play... so where is the ally when he does not leave play?

 

Changing the cardtype from ally to hero feels a little like ally X leaves play and hero X joins play without doing it physically.

after some thoughts about this, i think using the resonse of Valiant Sacrifice could be legal but using Horn of Gondor will not, because the character itself is still in play.

[Lecitadin 273]

The ally becomes a hero and does not really leave play.

[GrandSpleen 1,707]

If you're a private and you get promoted to corporal, the private has not left the army.

[JanB 85]

@Lecitadin & Grandspleen: youre right .. but after "promoting" your ally to hero status your quantity of heroes is increased and of your allies is decreased. So someone could interpret that an ally has left play and a hero has joined play, right?

[GrandSpleen 1,707]

It depends on what you believe "left play" means.

 

A card effect can cause a card to be "considered" to have left play (Saruman), but otherwise I suppose it means the card has moved from the table to a discard pile, hand, into a deck, or into the victory display.

[JanB 85]

Caleb writes me an answer to my question by mail.

To trigger "leave play"-moments a card must physically moved out of play .. same for come into play. So no, Sword-thain does not trigger such reaktions for a leaving ally.