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That One Guy

What Excites You About Imperial Veterans?

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Maarek needs to be at least 2 points cheaper than Vessery if he wants to be almost as good.

 

Vessery's ability right now makes him the best TIE/D, and Maarek's ability works nicely with Mangler Cannon, but not with any other cannon, he won't use either new title and will just be another overpriced Defender.

 

Maarek with TIE/D and predator will be almost as good as Vessery, so if he costs 34 points or more, won't ever see the table.

 

There is precedent for higher PS pilots being cheaper than lower PS pilots with great abilities. Obi-Wan's only hope!

Edited by Vulf

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Maarek needs to be at least 2 points cheaper than Vessery if he wants to be almost as good.

Vessery's ability right now makes him the best TIE/D, and Maarek's ability works nicely with Mangler Cannon, but not with any other cannon, he won't use either new title and will just be another overpriced Defender.

Maarek with TIE/D and predator will be almost as good as Vessery, so if he costs 34 points or more, won't ever see the table.

There is precedent for higher PS pilots being cheaper than lower PS pilots with great abilities. Obi-Wan's only hope!

Okay Tomax Bren is a precedent for pricing ships but is here really anyone believing seriously that Maarek won't just be in the middle between Vessery and Brath??

If he is cheaper, say 34 points, whats with the glaive squad? 33 for glaive and the countess? Given that, the glaive is 3ps higher plus ept compared to the onyx for just 1 point! I don't think so!!

Edited by Taiowaa

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Maarek needs to be at least 2 points cheaper than Vessery if he wants to be almost as good.

Vessery's ability right now makes him the best TIE/D, and Maarek's ability works nicely with Mangler Cannon, but not with any other cannon, he won't use either new title and will just be another overpriced Defender.

Maarek with TIE/D and predator will be almost as good as Vessery, so if he costs 34 points or more, won't ever see the table.

There is precedent for higher PS pilots being cheaper than lower PS pilots with great abilities. Obi-Wan's only hope!

Okay Tomax Bren is a precedent for pricing ships but is here really anyone believing seriously that Maarek won't just be in the middle between Vessery and Brath??

If he is cheaper, say 34 points, whats with the glaive squad? 33 for glaive and the countess? Given that, the glaive is 3ps higher plus ept compared to the onyx for just 1 point! I don't think so!!

 

You're right, and it's disappointing that either the Glaive or Maarek will never have the chance of seeing the table.  The only way Maarek sees play is if he's 33-34 points, and the Glaive can't be less than 33.

 

Tomax Bren is PS 8 at 24 to Major Rhymer 7 at 26, so maybe they've priced with respect to how good Vessery's ability is and the new pilots are priced appropriately around it.  Best case we probably get something like this:

 

33-33 Countess Iran Ryad based on EPT

33 Glaive, EPT?

34 Maarek

 

I don't think 34 point Maarek would make the cut though.  Vessery is too good, and it's unlikely you'd want both over every other Imperial ship unless the new titles are phantom-level gamebreaking.

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Nothing, It doesn't change how the ship is flown, if anything the evade title makes you more predictable. The titles are only making Vessery and Generics better. It doesn't do anything new with the ship. Just makes existing lists like the Jonus Brothers better. Very disappointing.

I think you are probably the lone voice with that opinion.

I think the new stuff will be amazing, I loved the defender before, it was just expensive and somewhat predictable in build.

That won't apply anymore. I can't wait.

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Nera Dantels and Keyan Farlander are only 1 PS lower the old pilots, but 2 points less.

22 point PS6 generic Royal Guard pilot in the same package as 23 point PS5 Lorrir who doesn't have an ept slot.

 

Palob Godalhi is PS5 with an EPT and costs 20 points, just 1 point more than Torkil Mux.

 

FFG decides how to cost the value of an increase in PS or an extra upgrade slot on a ship per ship basis. They will probably take all sorts of factors into account, one of which in the Defender's case, that the premium paid for their dial doesn't translate into in-game performance the way they originally thought.

 

(Is turning a red maneuver into white worth 5 points? Would Scum Y-wings pay 5 points for Unhinged Astromech? Tomax Bren with a 1 point Adrenaline Rush is undercosted?)

 

If they want to avoid the same old mistakes, they'll price the new Defenders how they are worth, and that might entail completely ignoring the points cost of Onyx and Delta Squadron pilots.

34 point Glaives and 36 point Stele is dead in space, in my opinion, but I'm just some slug.

Edited by Vulf

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I don't think there's an ept that you could give them that makes them as good as Vessery, who is 35 points. And if you are going to take more than 1 Defender, or don't care about the ept slot, you are going to want a cheaper Onyx Squadron pilot with the x7 title.

 

Even an Onyx Squadron pilot with Flechette Cannon will do most of what you need in a ship. Double tap, and shoots before TLT Y-wings. If you want a doubletapper to be able to modify both shots, Vessery is cheaper than a 34 point Glaive with Predator (37 points before a cannon). And you could give him crack shot or veteran instincts and still be cheaper.

 

I see most lists sticking with just a single Vessery TIE/D to get the most out of his ability. He's going to be a solid choice because he needs very little to be effective, and the rest of your list can be points efficient to make up for the Defender Premium. As long as you include something that target locks, those new TIE Advanced Prototypes look pretty amazing right now. Less than 20 points for some target lock action economy generics.

 

I reserve the right to change my opinion if the facts contradict them, however!

Edited by Vulf

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I see most lists sticking with just a single Vessery TIE/D to get the most out of his ability. He's going to be a solid choice because he needs very little to be effective, and the rest of your list can be points efficient to make up for the Defender Premium. As long as you include something that target locks, those new TIE Advanced Prototypes look pretty amazing right now. Less than 20 points for some target lock action economy generics.

 

You can do it for as low as 16 pts with a Long Range Scanner Tie Bomber.

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Nothing, It doesn't change how the ship is flown, if anything the evade title makes you more predictable. The titles are only making Vessery and Generics better. It doesn't do anything new with the ship. Just makes existing lists like the Jonus Brothers better. Very disappointing.

I think you are probably the lone voice with that opinion.

I think the new stuff will be amazing, I loved the defender before, it was just expensive and somewhat predictable in build.

That won't apply anymore. I can't wait.

 

Actually I'm partial to Spider's opinion myself.

 

While it will be good to finally see Defenders on the table again I can't help but feel that they were so poorly designed to begin with - they are the ultimate superiority fighter after all - and have never felt like it.

 

Now - they will either be fragile cannon toting maniacs; able to shoot at various targets and add a possible control element, or, they will be zooming all over the place - being tanky, but unable to focus fire (remember there's a time limit) efficiently.

 

I welcome any change that will see Defenders played more but it still feels like a patch solution for a flawed design, and that design is still holding the ship back, y'know?

Edited by Keffisch

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Very much looking forward to the entire box.  Adds much more flexibility and flavour to the beloved Defenders and I'm keen to see how Biophysical will break the X-wing world when it is released.  :)

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What excites me?

 

This (or something like this):

 

Delta Squadron Pilot (34) x 2 TIE Defender (30), Ion Cannon (3), TIE/D (0), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Captain Yorr (31) Lambda-Class Shuttle (24), Mara Jade (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

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Vessry is great, and on paper, with certain squads, his ability should activate frequently. Here's a list of that make Vessery more difficult than what's on paper:

1.) The first turn: Your TLT support ships are much less likely to have TLs against higher PS targets, so Vessery isn't getting the free TL on the opening exchange. This means that opposing targets can be a little more aggressive, or it might mean that your first target might live just a little bit longer. I'm a big fan of early firepower, so I dislike this.

2.) The furball. When ships have joined and you've got you support ships moving all over the place to block and/or get shots, you're less likely to have a supporting ship with an action, with a target in the same arc as Vessery (so the TL isn't wasted).

3.) At lower PS, you telegraph your punches. If you want to concentrate fire on something, it's all well and good if you TL with everyone on the main target, but this does let anyone below Vessery''s PS know who Vessery is gunning for. If you split up TLs to mask his target before he moves, you're splitting fire or using actions inefficiently.

4.) Your TLs can be PS-killed. If you've lose the TIE holding a TL on someone before Vessery fires, it goes away and he can't use it anymore.

5.) If you get the kill with Vessery, your TL is wasted. That support ship can no longer attack with an action.

6.) The end game, once your support ships are dead.

This isn't to say Vessery isn't great. He's extremely useful chewing on a hard to kill ship where you can Target Lock it with someone, and just leave that token in play for a while. This works really well for high PS TLs like Vader or a high PS FCS, because it leaves the TL in play for Vessery to use on the opening turn. The huge flexibility in tactical options offered by Predator on a non-Vessery Defender certainly give you something for the points premium.

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Unless Ten Numb wants to touch you with a Mangler Cannon.

 

Even Blount can fire his 2 dice primary and remove a stealth device.

 

\\\\i can't turn it off\1

Edited by Vulf

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Unless Ten Numb wants to touch you with a Mangler Cannon.

 

Even Blount can fire his 2 dice primary and remove a stealth device.

Ten can't modify the hit to crit against Omega Leader. He can a auto hit against the Glaives, but generally Defenders don't mind taking a single damage from a 30+ point ship. It does break the Stealth Device, but Ten will be dead fast.

Also, Blount's ability only works on Secondary weapons

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