Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Zogwort

Dropping "discard" from Ordinance. Would that make it worth it?

Recommended Posts

Hello all,

 

The general vibe I'm feeling regarding some the the new ordinance upgrades is that although its an improvement, many feel that its still not enough to make ordinance make a strong appearance in the game. Seeing how ordinance was almost never viable since the beginning of this wonderful game, maybe its time FFG simply change the way it works rather than release upgrade after upgrade as a "patch" that doesn't quite hit the mark.

 

Here is my idea: Ignore the word "discard" written on all bomb, torpedo, and missile cards. When the ordinance is used, tap the card or place a token on the card. While the token is on the card (or the card is tapped), it cannot be used again until the token is removed (or the card is untapped). As an action, remove the token (untap the card).

 

So unless the pilot is tooled up for action economy or in a specific list that grants tons of free actions, it is unlikely the pilot will be able to file his ordinance all willy nilly every single turn.

 

Now ordinance is not a 1 shot thing (or 2 shot with EM). Its not overly abusive in my opinion because the pilot will still need to perform two actions to shoot again (1 to remove the token and another as a TL), and will want Deadeye if he wants to focus more, so now Deadeye is an interesting option to consider. Extra Munitions isn't rendered useless because it still allows the pilot to shoot his ordinance twice in a row without having to spend actions to reload his ordinance.

 

Would you all think this "fixes" ordinance without making it OP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That system works in ST:AW because you're dealing with capital ships, essentially. It makes sense that they would have a lot of ammo. An x-wing, even in the fluff, only carries six proton torpedoes - three shots firing in pairs. The X-Wing system is abstracted a bit with just the single shot, but seems to capture the fluff pretty well. The problem with ordnance is its unreliability, which is being addressed, not so much how many you can fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A-Wings with prockets or Advances with Prockets/Cluster Missiles that never go away would be annoying.

I'll take a 5 red dice Vader at range one every time

 

Vader + TIE/x1 + FCS + Calculation + Guidance Chimp + Prockets

 

Attack and get TL on target

Action One: Reload

Action Two: Focus

Attack and get TL on target

Repeat until stuff goes ka-blam

 

33 points for a repeating 5-dice attack at range one potentially every turn? Yes please.

Edit: Derp'd on the Action needed for PR. Adjusted and recosted.

Edited by Slugrage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I have long favored some type of Ordnance that is NOT discarded after use, essentially making it a cannon in a different slot, having all ordnance drop the "discard" part of its use could just break the game.  The stuff that requires a TL token to be discarded to use seems like it is the least likely to be broken but even then there are many easy ways to gain a TL that it may not be a hard enough restriction.  Anything that doesn't have a TL's targeting restriction and discard requirement can just become insane. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, to be fair a ton of ships can use ordnance. So if suddenly Procket A-Wings were the top meta list that'd be cool actually.

 

It would propel the genericwing lists I love dearly into the top tier, and things like K-Wings would get nuts and be viable without TLT as an autoinclude.

 

On second thought, this would be pretty cool actually. I'd be game for a meta where ordnance was overpowered.

 

Muntions failsafe would no longer be a dud either, as missing would save you having to perform a reload action.

 

All of a sudden those torp slots on Starvipers and X-Wings become valuable. Chardaan Refit is no longer an autoinclude. Maybe you'd see Falcons or Decis with missiles/torps instead of a bunch of power upgrades stacked together.

 

Sign me up OP, I've changed my mind. I've always wanted a meta that revolved around ordnance boats.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd disagree that it's been "fixed" but it has been substantially improved.

 

Missiles, torps and bombs that don't run out is just about as broken as one shot ones. The currrent batch of missiles, torps and bombs were designed to be one shot - making them unlimited would be firstly be too OP, secondly unrealistic even for a fantasy sci-fi like Star Wars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps a title for the Punisher or Bomber could allow unlimited ordnance, but not for regular fighter craft.

 

I've never had a chance to launch more than two shots with a Punisher or Bomber before they get killed. Extra munitions does the job fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's probably too late for it, but I feel like it might have been simpler. Some sort of cooldown per slot is its own abstraction. The small scale of X-Wing games actually does work with this, because most games are going to be over before you can fire enough from most ships to feel wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Perhaps a title for the Punisher or Bomber could allow unlimited ordnance, but not for regular fighter craft.

 

I've never had a chance to launch more than two shots with a Punisher or Bomber before they get killed. Extra munitions does the job fine.

 

 

Sure, but if these craft still aren't seeing play then a 0 point title could certainly give them a bit of a buff without enabling unlimited procket A-wings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone ever tried just giving ships the secondary weapons they should have in the first place for free? Does it horribly unbalance the game?

 

It's always annoyed me.

 

It's like playing a WWII game, and suddenly discovering that you can't shoot the enemy, because you couldn't afford to buy a cannon for the turret of your Sherman tank. Or that you get overrun by infantry because you couldn't afford to have a gunner with a machine gun in your Tiger Tank.

 

Do any ships take off without torpedoes or cannons attached? Shouldn't these ships have all the bits and bobs on them for free to start with? (and have higher costs to reflect this if needed). It has always seemed odd that the default state of a B-wing is a stripped down shell without canon or torpedoes. They don't fly about like that in the movies, so why create a game where they fly about like that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In regards to Vader or Procket/PtL A-Wings, if they're taking "reload" actions and TL at the same time, that means they are not boost/barrel rolling to get out of ark. This gives you the opportunity to better get out of their ark or line up your shot to them. Now you're playing in an environment where you got to assess the risk vs. reward and the advantage going to superior maneuvering, which is something people have been wanting since the days of fat turrets came on the scene.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A-Wings with prockets or Advances with Prockets/Cluster Missiles that never go away would be annoying.

And hard hitting, to boot. 

 

Imagine...

Green Squadron Pilot

PTL

Marksmanship

(infinite) Prockets

Autothrusters

 

I used to make custom missions with a mission editor for XvT in my spare time in college. It was SO tempting to set warheads to "unlimited" in my missions, just so a Z-95 with ACM could take on an ISD and get +50,000 points for "Secondary Goals Completed".

 

Ah, the good old days...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the new cards are the fix that was needed. Making ordnance too strong will just turn the game into an alpha strike luck-fest.

 

Specifically about this idea; it wouldn't help some of the ships, like bombers, who will die too easily. Meanwhile as others have stated, some ships become broken. And Vader/A-Wings don't mind about losing an action as they can fire the rockets at range 1, then just zoom off at speed 5 while reloading and beyond range 3, then K-Turn still out of range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A-Wings with prockets or Advances with Prockets/Cluster Missiles that never go away would be annoying.

And hard hitting, to boot. 

 

Imagine...

Green Squadron Pilot

PTL

Marksmanship

(infinite) Prockets

Autothrusters

 

I used to make custom missions with a mission editor for XvT in my spare time in college. It was SO tempting to set warheads to "unlimited" in my missions, just so a Z-95 with ACM could take on an ISD and get +50,000 points for "Secondary Goals Completed".

 

Ah, the good old days...

 

 

That seems like a big waste to me.  You need to use Marksmanship to PtL for a Focus if you want to use the Prockets.  Just taking the Marksmanship action is not enough for a ship to be able to fire Prockets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...