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GreenLantern1138

T-65 Fix?

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A general E-wing/X-wing fix idea: a negative point astromech.

 

Refurbished Astromech: -2 points. Your upgrade bar loses all upgrade icons besides [Astromech slot].

 

 

The fact that it strips away other upgrades would likely keep it off y-wings (which really don't need any points help) and losing the ept slot would mean it's much better on generics rather than aces.

 

 

 

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Really, all they need is a title, X-WIng Only "-1pt to Astromech costs to a minimum of 0, cannot be equipped if you have a Tech on your upgrade bar". This gives you a 21pt Rookie with a free 1pt Astro and IA. This brings their jousting efficiency up slightly, but also gives them a lot of flexibility depending on astromech. X-Wing Aces get slightly better, and it doesn't help T-70s.

Edited by AmPm

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I'm afraid skub is a meme too old to be remembered by most of the community here...

*looks in mirror remembering the looming birthday that marks the beginning of my 5th decade*

What the skub is skub?

Punning Pundit likes this

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A general E-wing/X-wing fix idea: a negative point astromech.

 

Refurbished Astromech: -2 points. Your upgrade bar loses all upgrade icons besides [Astromech slot].

 

 

The fact that it strips away other upgrades would likely keep it off y-wings (which really don't need any points help) and losing the ept slot would mean it's much better on generics rather than aces.

19 point rookies?

Kihraxz says you eat too much.

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Except that it's not just a matter of, "Well, now the X-Wing has lost its astromech slot." Whatever you put into that slot gives it extra utility that the B-Wing doesn't get. They have to put something in their system slot to match it, or spend a point on an E2 mod to carry crew.

 

A 22-point Rookie Pilot with an R2 Astromech has much better speed than a B-Wing can offer, with a huge range of green moves that it can do after a K-turn. It can get a range 1 shot on a higher-PS large ship and still pull off a K-turn next round to keep chasing it, with a full range of speed-2 maneuvers to clear stress or speed-3 maneuvers for pursuit. The B-Wing's K-turn is much more easily blocked, and it only has a few slow moves to clear stress after a red move. It's fastest white maneuver is only a 3-straight.

I think we're only about 1% in disagreement here. :)

I bring up what the X-Wing gives up to highlight that it's working hard to get more points-efficient, and not quite getting there. Once you add FCS to the B-Wing, it gets significantly more efficient than the X-Wing, and still has a lot of slots left over.

The R2 looks like a great mech- and it can be- but not really on the X-Wing. Green manuvers are important on a ship with either a) lots of Red, or b) a great action bar that demands PTL. The X-Wing doesn't really have either of those.

(Side note: a generic EPT E-Wing that was well costed would love R2 + PTL. _loooove_ it. I cry every time I think about this forbidden love.)

I also think you're overestimating the value of pure speed. If speed alone were important, the Defender would be king- without needing a bump. Insteadz I think this game prizes maneuverability- the hard 1s and 2s. The B-Wing has both. The X-Wing has neither. Barrel rolls and boosts help enormously with this maneuverability- and the B-Wing can do one of those.

It's not that the B-Wing's dial is enormously better than the X-Wing, but it's better enough. And adding a 3 point upgrade to the B-Wing covers the weaknesses of the B-Wing dial in a way no upgrade can for the X-Wing.

I'm actually about to try out a Wedge build that makes his dial _weaker_ in order to create more room for Targeting Astromech to be useful. We'll see how that goes. :)

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But then I save a point for something else, for a minor decrease in PTL efficiency.

 

I'm trying to figure out if I want to drop Wes Janson (who is awesome) for a Stresshog. Upside, more stress, downside, not at PS10 and doesn't strip tokens.

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Except that it's not just a matter of, "Well, now the X-Wing has lost its astromech slot." Whatever you put into that slot gives it extra utility that the B-Wing doesn't get. They have to put something in their system slot to match it, or spend a point on an E2 mod to carry crew.

 

A 22-point Rookie Pilot with an R2 Astromech has much better speed than a B-Wing can offer, with a huge range of green moves that it can do after a K-turn. It can get a range 1 shot on a higher-PS large ship and still pull off a K-turn next round to keep chasing it, with a full range of speed-2 maneuvers to clear stress or speed-3 maneuvers for pursuit. The B-Wing's K-turn is much more easily blocked, and it only has a few slow moves to clear stress after a red move. It's fastest white maneuver is only a 3-straight.

I think we're only about 1% in disagreement here. :)

I bring up what the X-Wing gives up to highlight that it's working hard to get more points-efficient, and not quite getting there. Once you add FCS to the B-Wing, it gets significantly more efficient than the X-Wing, and still has a lot of slots left over.

The R2 looks like a great mech- and it can be- but not really on the X-Wing. Green manuvers are important on a ship with either a) lots of Red, or b) a great action bar that demands PTL. The X-Wing doesn't really have either of those.

(Side note: a generic EPT E-Wing that was well costed would love R2 + PTL. _loooove_ it. I cry every time I think about this forbidden love.)

I also think you're overestimating the value of pure speed. If speed alone were important, the Defender would be king- without needing a bump. Insteadz I think this game prizes maneuverability- the hard 1s and 2s. The B-Wing has both. The X-Wing has neither. Barrel rolls and boosts help enormously with this maneuverability- and the B-Wing can do one of those.

It's not that the B-Wing's dial is enormously better than the X-Wing, but it's better enough. And adding a 3 point upgrade to the B-Wing covers the weaknesses of the B-Wing dial in a way no upgrade can for the X-Wing.

I'm actually about to try out a Wedge build that makes his dial _weaker_ in order to create more room for Targeting Astromech to be useful. We'll see how that goes. :)

 

The R2 is mainly advantageous for being a cheap way to get an extra hit point, but it also helps the X-Wing when coming out of your K-turn. It gives you the full array of 2s as green maneuvers, instead of just the speed-1 banks.

 

I'm not saying I'd completely replace B-Wings with X-Wings now, but I would definitely prefer to use something like BBXXZ instead of a pure BBBBZ or XXXXZ.

 

And for tomorrow's league night, I'm thinking of running a Tarn/R7 build that also throws Plasma torpedoes into the mix.

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So!

Tonight I ran Wedge + Targeting Astromech + Integrated Astromech + Stat on Target. He died in the second round of combat.

I could have flown him a bit better, but even with IA, he was still too fragile for the hate directed his way. It might just be a thing that if you run an ace X-Wing, you need Biggs, a shield regeneration droid, or both.

jimmius likes this

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There is no way in hell this ship needs a fix! If it's outdated then so well. But a fix no way. It's a dominant ship in a lot of lists.

T-65s don't need Talon rolls.

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Gold and Red Vermilion Copper Knight Impresario Von Icarus Raventoodles III:  Gold Leader, take your men in a Forward Meat Grinder Assault.  Make sure every last bit of you and your men die painfully and GLORIOUSLY!  Do it for the Imperium son.  We can suffer not the Skub to live.

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Gold and Red Vermilion Copper Knight Impresario Von Icarus Raventoodles III:  Gold Leader, take your men in a Forward Meat Grinder Assault.  Make sure every last bit of you and your men die painfully and GLORIOUSLY!  Do it for the Imperium son.  We can suffer not the Skub to live.

 

SKUB FOR THE SKUB GOD!

Lampyridae and Managarmr like this

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Gold and Red Vermilion Copper Knight Impresario Von Icarus Raventoodles III:  Gold Leader, take your men in a Forward Meat Grinder Assault.  Make sure every last bit of you and your men die painfully and GLORIOUSLY!  Do it for the Imperium son.  We can suffer not the Skub to live.

 

SKUB FOR THE SKUB GOD!

DIE YOU HERETIC SCUM!!!!

Edited by Darkcloak

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Gold and Red Vermilion Copper Knight Impresario Von Icarus Raventoodles III:  Gold Leader, take your men in a Forward Meat Grinder Assault.  Make sure every last bit of you and your men die painfully and GLORIOUSLY!  Do it for the Imperium son.  We can suffer not the Skub to live.

 

SKUB FOR THE SKUB GOD!

DIE YOU HERETIC SCUM!!!!

 

you misspelled " heretic skub"

 

Ackbar

Wedge, If you had your way, you'd continue flying skubfighters and commanding fighter squadrons until you were a century old.
Edited by Warpman

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Gold and Red Vermilion Copper Knight Impresario Von Icarus Raventoodles III:  Gold Leader, take your men in a Forward Meat Grinder Assault.  Make sure every last bit of you and your men die painfully and GLORIOUSLY!  Do it for the Imperium son.  We can suffer not the Skub to live.

 

SKUB FOR THE SKUB GOD!

DIE YOU HERETIC SCUM!!!!

 

 

EAT BOLTSKUB!!!

Edited by Lampyridae

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For the last 2 years I have been saying the same thing, and have given suggestions for a fix. The dang community is stubborn though. No matter how many times I make a suggestion based on lore, they tell me it's canon or extended universe (when it's mostly not). This is my latest attempt to throw my ideas in the pile here

The reason I did not include a T-70 Title Card to the idea list is because the T-65 named Pilots either died, or would be too old by the time the T-70 came out. I would imagine in old age they stopped flying.

For the T-65AC4 Title Card, I did not put the Tallon Roll in because of the rules. You have to have a maneuver dial, that matches the model. It would also require the purchase of a T-70 Expansion, or the new Core.

Perhaps one thing I could of added was "Astromech to Computer" Modification card. That way the T-70 could get the same effect as the T-65D-A1 Title Card

I did a title for the X-Wing along the lines of your T-65AC4:

Corran Horn X-Wing:

x_wing_miniatures_game___corran_in_x_win

 

And a different approach for an X-Wing fix (helps T-60 without helping T-70):

x_wing_miniatures_game___custom_upgrade_

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Rat-a-tat-tat!

 

Bbbbbbraaap!

 

Kapowie!

 

Continue the artillery attack and keep pouring sweet young souls into that food processor of a battlefield!  We'll route these VILE Skub users yet!  They're practically begging for us to liberate them in the name of Skub-Free Living!  We'll plunge our liberation into their SPLEENS and twist it around until they quit twitching...

 

ONWARD BROTHERS!

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