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GreenLantern1138

T-65 Fix?

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XJ-5 title would do better.

Add boost to the upgrade bar, add Tech slot, lose Astromech slot.

Treat 3 forward and 2 banks as greens.

 

Fast, deadly, but loses all the shenanigans Astros have to offer.

Shaidown and Odanan like this

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Stealth X didn't have a cloak though. Putting a stealth device upgrade on on X Wing would be an accurate representation.

That. That's why.
Technically, a Stealth Device only hides a ship from sensors.  While a Cloaking Device hides a ship from both sensors and visually.  The StealthX does possess equipment that hides it visually.  So it's more than a Stealth Device, but less than a Cloaking Device.

 

More like "oh they have a fighter that can cut threw capital ships all by itself. If that's the case YEARS BEFORE A NEW HOPE why was stealing the Death Star plans the first victory for the Rebel Alliance?"

If you take the whole series into account, TIE Fighters are shooting down transports in one shot.  And Vader destroys a frigate in a handful of hits.

 

The Blade Wing isn't that powerful.  Ships are just super fragile on the show.

Also giving it real cloack as opposed to unreliable illicit-upgrade cloak is shitting on the iperials in this game, so that is a decision that FFGwill not come to.

Except they do it all the time, because the idea of faction specific mechanics is a concept created by the fans.

The ship was also created some 30 years after the TIE Phantom. That technology is far from cutting edge at that point.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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How about:

 

X-Wing only.

Torpedo slot, 2 points:

"Engine refit."

"Add the (Boost) and (Evade) actions to your action bar."

 

Note the above is available to the T-70 as well.

Edited by tsuruki

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How about:

 

X-Wing only.

Torpedo slot, 2 points:

"Engine refit."

"Add the (Boost) and (Evade) actions to your action bar."

 

Note the above is available to the T-70 as well.

Poe + R5P9 + Coms Relay + VI + AutoThrusters says this might be a bit much.

costi likes this

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The T-65 does not need boost, it does not need barrel roll. Honestly it is just about right, maybe 1 or over. A title that reduces cost of Astromechs by 1 to minimum 0 would be fine.

Krewal and Shaidown like this

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I think this might balance the X-Wing just about perfectly.

 

 

 

Skub (0)

X-Wing only

Add (Skub) action to the fighter's action bar.

Cannot equip if you have (Tech) in your upgrade bar.

 

Allowing the X-Wings to use Skub would be the ideal way to bring it into the current meta as Skub is the ideal way to enhance a fighter's potential without it becoming unbalanced. I actually think that using Skub on all the models would result in a huge improvement on the quality of the game. But since we're merely trying to figure out what to do with the X-Wing, I figure that we can limit the Skub to the T-65.

Ktan likes this

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Look, giving skub to every ship is why the Phantom was so OP! The design skub of the skub has been filled with skub.

I understand skub is good for fixing mistakes, but if people learned to not rely on skub, skub could be reserved for skub ships.

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Skub was never meant to be limited to Skub ships. Anybody who doesn't understand this just doesn't know how to play the game. While Skub may give a boost up to newer players trying to get some early wins, Skub is even more valuable to veteran players as the true Skub potential in the Skub action shows up in the Skub when the Skub Skubs Skub's Skub.

 

Okay, I won't derail the thread anymore.

 

It seems that the main issue is that one group wants to put Boost on the T-65 while the others say it would detract from the Boost of ships like the T-70 and the Interceptor.

 

Perhaps there could be a way to give the 65 Boost without all the benefits? While I'm almost positive this has been suggested before, the Search function isn't pulling anything up so I'll just throw it out there.

 

T-65b X-Wing

 

Title

 

X-Wing only

 

Player may choose to take the (Boost) action.

 

If this is done, subtract (X) from your attack skill for this turn.

 

One of the frequently seen effects of the X-Wing's S-foils in games is that closing them gives you extra speed while either limiting or cutting off the power to your lasers.  Let's say we knock of one die from the X-Wing's primary attack. If the X-Wing attempted to use Boost to keep within range 3 of a TIE Interceptor, it could still fire at it, but it would be 2 red vs. 4 green. That's better than not getting to roll any dice at all however. On the other hand, the X-Wing could use this Boost if out of arc to try to increase the range from an attacking ship without suffering any negative effects. Making it an imperfect Boost should keep the Z-95 and the T-70 happy while giving the 65 a bit more situational jousting power.

Odanan likes this

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The problem is that arcdodge is a "limit list" and as such is a hard counter-matchup.

Either you own them with a wipe, or they own you with a wipe.

 

add to that the fact that engine upgrade is overcosted by a point, while autothrusters are epicly powerful.

with all that in mind we come to the problem.

 

the originaltriangle of counter-matchup was

 

Jousters > Turrets > Arcdodgers > Josuters

 

First the turrets started boosting around the table and regening, then the phantom raped the meta, having only TWO countermatchups aside from other phantoms with higher initiative bid.

 

BUT right now arcdodgers with inherited boost have autothrusters to limit turret damage and have boost to deny the main turret (TLT) the shots entirely.

While TLT has epic jousting value, overshadowing most jousters.

 

so it starts looking like

Jousters< Turrets < Arcdodgers > jousters

T-65 is a jouster

 

???

No skub will help you.

because the only way of dealing with arcdodgers we have is stress-control.

Stress-Y, TLTacticians.

and then they give you a goose chase, with you trying to catch them with their pants down and stress-covered arse trail-blazing across the table

TLT does that better!

 

 

*poor scum players, have pity on their souls, they don't get to have any control. and their only hope, the PS-diminishing HWK sucks because he only derps PS for the COMBAT phase

Edited by Warpman

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Going from 86% to 91% is a **** good fix, and also leaves the door open for future Astromechs to enhance jousting further. And 1% difference from a naked B-Wing is not really an issue. After all, A-Wing Refits (which with Boost, Evade etc should wipe the floor with the competition) and FCS B-Wings are even better on the jousting charts. Is that REALLY a problem? It's also better than a TIE Interceptor. A 1% difference between the X and B is also not that big a deal. The calculation of the numbers themselves requires some subjectivity, and they will drift according to meta and reconsideration of weighting (MajorJuggler discusses his thinking in great detail - it's worth reading it in full).

 

My view on the X-Wing is that it was always meant to be a hit-and-run fighter. Plan for extended fights and make hard burns out of difficult situations. The 4-K is boring sure, but way better than a B-Wing's 2-K in most games I have played. Coupled with Targeting Astromech and IA, that makes the X-Wing perfect for the way I play it.

 

I personally would have a difficult to use but rewarding ship rather than a broken meta-stifling no-brainer. Fear the worn X-Wing dial!

Edited by Lampyridae
FTS Gecko likes this

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Skub was never meant to be limited to Skub ships. Anybody who doesn't understand this just doesn't know how to play the game. While Skub may give a boost up to newer players trying to get some early wins, Skub is even more valuable to veteran players as the true Skub potential in the Skub action shows up in the Skub when the Skub Skubs Skub's Skub.

 

Okay, I won't derail the thread anymore.

 

It seems that the main issue is that one group wants to put Boost on the T-65 while the others say it would detract from the Boost of ships like the T-70 and the Interceptor.

 

Perhaps there could be a way to give the 65 Boost without all the benefits? While I'm almost positive this has been suggested before, the Search function isn't pulling anything up so I'll just throw it out there.

 

T-65b X-Wing

 

Title

 

X-Wing only

 

Player may choose to take the (Boost) action.

 

If this is done, subtract (X) from your attack skill for this turn.

 

One of the frequently seen effects of the X-Wing's S-foils in games is that closing them gives you extra speed while either limiting or cutting off the power to your lasers.  Let's say we knock of one die from the X-Wing's primary attack. If the X-Wing attempted to use Boost to keep within range 3 of a TIE Interceptor, it could still fire at it, but it would be 2 red vs. 4 green. That's better than not getting to roll any dice at all however. On the other hand, the X-Wing could use this Boost if out of arc to try to increase the range from an attacking ship without suffering any negative effects. Making it an imperfect Boost should keep the Z-95 and the T-70 happy while giving the 65 a bit more situational jousting power.

I listed the summary of the lore regarding the T-65 Models. It would not make sense having the B Model as the one with boost. I will repost my idea thread so you may read it

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They should just give every ship boost and ships that have boost already can do it as a free action and can ignore the limit on identical actions so they can DOUBLE boost.

 

Then they should give every ship innate crack shot.

 

And implement the fourth faction, "Space Wizards."

 

Only playable with miniatures from DnD Attack Wing.

Edited by Vulf
surfimp likes this

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Going from 86% to 91% is a **** good fix, and also leaves the door open for future Astromechs to enhance jousting further. And 1% difference from a naked B-Wing is not really an issue. After all, A-Wing Refits (which with Boost, Evade etc should wipe the floor with the competition) and FCS B-Wings are even better on the jousting charts. Is that REALLY a problem? It's also better than a TIE Interceptor. A 1% difference between the X and B is also not that big a deal. The calculation of the numbers themselves requires some subjectivity, and they will drift according to meta and reconsideration of weighting (MajorJuggler discusses his thinking in great detail - it's worth reading it in full).

The difficulty is that the naked B-Wing has lots of different ways to make it better, but once you slap IA onto an X-Wing, you've taken its Astromech slot and its modification slot. At that point, you only have titles and Torpedoes left to make changes. And the B-Wing will always do Torpedoes better.

So if a naked B-Wing can out perform (even marginally) a half-full X-Wing, there is a problem.

I do, 100%, belive that there's a good- competitive- T-65 X-Wing build waiting to be discovered, that uses IA. I just don't think there's 3 or 4.

jimmius likes this

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Going from 86% to 91% is a **** good fix, and also leaves the door open for future Astromechs to enhance jousting further. And 1% difference from a naked B-Wing is not really an issue. After all, A-Wing Refits (which with Boost, Evade etc should wipe the floor with the competition) and FCS B-Wings are even better on the jousting charts. Is that REALLY a problem? It's also better than a TIE Interceptor. A 1% difference between the X and B is also not that big a deal. The calculation of the numbers themselves requires some subjectivity, and they will drift according to meta and reconsideration of weighting (MajorJuggler discusses his thinking in great detail - it's worth reading it in full).

The difficulty is that the naked B-Wing has lots of different ways to make it better, but once you slap IA onto an X-Wing, you've taken its Astromech slot and its modification slot. At that point, you only have titles and Torpedoes left to make changes. And the B-Wing will always do Torpedoes better.

So if a naked B-Wing can out perform (even marginally) a half-full X-Wing, there is a problem.

I do, 100%, belive that there's a good- competitive- T-65 X-Wing build waiting to be discovered, that uses IA. I just don't think there's 3 or 4.

 

I've been running the classic Wes, Wedge, Luke build, and it's not doing badly. I don't think it's something I would take to Regional's but it's doing well enough. Currently 5-0, IA helps a lot with the list durability (forces another shot at someone basically). My big concern with it is TLT spam, or HLC Brobots/Dash.

Punning Pundit and surfimp like this

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Going from 86% to 91% is a **** good fix, and also leaves the door open for future Astromechs to enhance jousting further. And 1% difference from a naked B-Wing is not really an issue. After all, A-Wing Refits (which with Boost, Evade etc should wipe the floor with the competition) and FCS B-Wings are even better on the jousting charts. Is that REALLY a problem? It's also better than a TIE Interceptor. A 1% difference between the X and B is also not that big a deal. The calculation of the numbers themselves requires some subjectivity, and they will drift according to meta and reconsideration of weighting (MajorJuggler discusses his thinking in great detail - it's worth reading it in full).

The difficulty is that the naked B-Wing has lots of different ways to make it better, but once you slap IA onto an X-Wing, you've taken its Astromech slot and its modification slot. At that point, you only have titles and Torpedoes left to make changes. And the B-Wing will always do Torpedoes better.

So if a naked B-Wing can out perform (even marginally) a half-full X-Wing, there is a problem.

I do, 100%, belive that there's a good- competitive- T-65 X-Wing build waiting to be discovered, that uses IA. I just don't think there's 3 or 4.

 

Except that it's not just a matter of, "Well, now the X-Wing has lost its astromech slot." Whatever you put into that slot gives it extra utility that the B-Wing doesn't get. They have to put something in their system slot to match it, or spend a point on an E2 mod to carry crew.

 

A 22-point Rookie Pilot with an R2 Astromech has much better speed than a B-Wing can offer, with a huge range of green moves that it can do after a K-turn. It can get a range 1 shot on a higher-PS large ship and still pull off a K-turn next round to keep chasing it, with a full range of speed-2 maneuvers to clear stress or speed-3 maneuvers for pursuit. The B-Wing's K-turn is much more easily blocked, and it only has a few slow moves to clear stress after a red move. It's fastest white maneuver is only a 3-straight.

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