Obstruction vs. Most wanted, Timing

[clontroper5 4,233]

So I was playing a game earlier And we a a situation where his corvette was shooting out of the side at my Raider (which was the objective ship) and we were trying to figure out the timing because it could either be...

1. Obstruction removes 1 die, he loses either the blue or the red and then no longer has both in is pool and can only get the one color for his +1 most wanted die (I.e. loses the blue and now must gain a red for a total of 2 reds)

Or

2. Gains a die of either color and then loses the 2nd resulting in 1 red and 1 blue

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Most Wanted is an "add" effect so it occurs during the Modify phase.

Per the Obstructed rule

"If an attack is obstructed by one or more ships or obstacles, the attacker must choose and remove one die from his attack pool before he rolls dice during the “Roll Attack Dice” step."

The Roll Attack Dice step is right before the Modify step.

This is one reason why you do t do all your "add's" at once.

[JgzMan 401]

I would observe that "pool" is the dice you pick up. "Battery" is the dice written on the card. I don't have "Most Wanted" in front of me, but if it adds dice to the Battery, then that happens before the attack is even called out, and so would happen far before "obstructed."

 

That said, I'm pretty sure Most Wanted adds to your pool.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I would observe that "pool" is the dice you pick up. "Battery" is the dice written on the card. I don't have "Most Wanted" in front of me, but if it adds dice to the Battery, then that happens before the attack is even called out, and so would happen far before "obstructed."

 

That said, I'm pretty sure Most Wanted adds to your pool.

Is there any cards that add to your battery? I know of there are Increases to the Battery but I have never seen an Add

[JgzMan 401]

I belive that Enhanced Armament increases your battery. I'm not sure there is a distinction between "increase" and "add too," but I may well be wrong. I believe the distinction lies between "Battery" and "Pool."

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I belive that Enhanced Armament increases your battery. I'm not sure there is a distinction between "increase" and "add too," but I may well be wrong. I believe the distinction lies between "Battery" and "Pool."

Everyone agrees with that but me simply because every single card that deals in adding dice to the Gather the Attack Pool has the words "Increase" and "Battery" and every card that deals in adding dice during the modify step has the words "Add" and "Attack Pool"

 

So a correlation should be made but DA, ScottieATF, or Der will come along eventually and tell me I am wrong.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Lyraeus

[JgzMan 401]

 

I belive that Enhanced Armament increases your battery. I'm not sure there is a distinction between "increase" and "add too," but I may well be wrong. I believe the distinction lies between "Battery" and "Pool."

Everyone agrees with that but me simply because every single card that deals in adding dice to the Gather the Attack Pool has the words "Increase" and "Battery" and every card that deals in adding dice during the modify step has the words "Add" and "Attack Pool"

 

So a correlation should be made but DA, ScottieATF, or Der will come along eventually and tell me I am wrong.

 

 

Interesting observation. If so, we might as well take them as a unit: "increase battery," vs "add to pool."

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I belive that Enhanced Armament increases your battery. I'm not sure there is a distinction between "increase" and "add too," but I may well be wrong. I believe the distinction lies between "Battery" and "Pool."

Everyone agrees with that but me simply because every single card that deals in adding dice to the Gather the Attack Pool has the words "Increase" and "Battery" and every card that deals in adding dice during the modify step has the words "Add" and "Attack Pool"

 

So a correlation should be made but DA, ScottieATF, or Der will come along eventually and tell me I am wrong.

 

Interesting observation. If so, we might as well take them as a unit: "increase battery," vs "add to pool."

Yup. You can do that but I just use the Increase and Add parts of things. If FFG changes their wording syntax than I will likely become wrong.

[DerErlkoenig 975]

So a correlation should be made but DA, ScottieATF, or Der will come along eventually and tell me I am wrong.

I'm here.

I actually had to look at the card, for some goofy reason I thought it did increase the battery armament. I guess that's what I get for never running it in Wave 1.

So long as the wording correlation holds true for all cases so far, I won't say your wrong. I'm sure we'll disagree soon enough, so I'll bank the smugness to use later to better effect.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Checking Rules.  Ignore me.

 

Mostly, I'm starting to consider the implications of RRG, Page 2:

 

 

Attack Pool

 

During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack. This includes the dice gathered prior to rolling as well as the dice after they are rolled.

 

Related Topics: Attack, Modifying Dice

 

 

 

Underline Emphasis Mine.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Drasnighta

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Checking Rules.  Ignore me.

 

Mostly, I'm starting to consider the implications of RRG, Page 2:

 

 

Attack Pool

 

During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack. This includes the dice gathered prior to rolling as well as the dice after they are rolled.

 

Related Topics: Attack, Modifying Dice

 

 

 

Underline Emphasis Mine.

Yup. This is why it is important to seperate the add abilities.

Remember that an obstructed CR90 A at long range will lose its only red die and thus have not valid attack since it can't add dice because there was no attack pool.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

 

Checking Rules.  Ignore me.

 

Mostly, I'm starting to consider the implications of RRG, Page 2:

 

 

Attack Pool

 

During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack. This includes the dice gathered prior to rolling as well as the dice after they are rolled.

 

Related Topics: Attack, Modifying Dice

 

 

 

Underline Emphasis Mine.

Yup. This is why it is important to seperate the add abilities.

Remember that an obstructed CR90 A at long range will lose its only red die and thus have not valid attack since it can't add dice because there was no attack pool.

 

 

The implication that your attack pool consists of dice before they are rolled as well.

 

 

 

 

My original post, before the edit, was this:

 

 

Rolling your Attack Pool consists of Gathering the Dice in your Battery Armament and Rolling them.

 

Obstacles are kind of an interrupt to that sequence, in telling you that you Gather those dice, and then Remove one, before Rolling them.

 

Only once they are rolled do they become your Attack Pool.

 

It is to this attack Pool that you Add/Change/Reroll, or as otherwise stated, Modify your Dice.

 

 

So hence Most Wanted:

 

“While a ship is attacking an objective ship, it may add 1 die of any color that is already in its attack pool to its attack pool.”

 

 

You need to have an Attack Pool, which occurs, as previously stated, after the initial gather and Roll.

 

 

The Wording of Add and Increase is , at the moment, circumstantially correct.  Because the wording that we're actually looking for - the trigger - is either Battery Armament (Oh Hey, I count it at this first step), or Attack Pool (Post initial roll!).

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Told you one of them would prove me technically wrong get

[clontroper5 4,233]

So it would completely remove 1 of the die colors as in example 1 ?

[Lyraeus 4,759]

So it would completely remove 1 of the die colors as in example 1 ?

Yup. You would lose one of the dice and would not be able to add to one of those.

[Thraug 1,066]

FFG really needs to clean up the attack steps, this game is getting overly complex and tedious to play with all of these different times to add, remove, spend, discard, convert dice, not to mention when and where card effects occur. The attack step really is a mess.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

On the contrary, I find that its fairly straightforward...  If you pay attention to the words used.  IE, its one of those "Read it or Hate it" moments.

 

 

Because they essentially lumped all of the Modification stuff IN ONE PLACE.  

 

People just seem to misinterpret when that One Place occurs in conjunction to other steps...  Most often, Spending Defense Tokens.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

It's actually really simple.

1) Measure Arc, Attack range and LoS

2) Gather Attack Pool (remove a die for obstructions)

3) Roll Attack Pool

4) Modify Attack Pool (add, modify, change, spend)

5) Spend Accuracies (yes you do remove the accuracy die when it is spent)

6) Defender spends Defense tokens (evades go here)

7) Attacker chooses critical effect (Contain goes here)

8) Total damage (brace goes here)

9) Deal damage (Redirect/scatter goes here)

Simple.

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

About as simple as a 9 step process you repeat 3 ship X 4 turns X 2 players per game.

But you did do a pretty good job of summing it up.

To make it clearer I'd request you parathesize increasing battery is in gather pool.

Also do note that step one of measuring range los and arc are three separate checks with considerable variance of what to check, where to check from and etc.

you might also want to add that rerolls are under modify dice step.

And after step 5. You cannot spend any more accuracies. I KEEP hearing that **** over and over again from players that really should know better.

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

1) Measure Arc, Attack range and LoS

 

2) Gather Attack Pool

    a. increases in battery

    b. if obstructed (los to los), remove 1 die

3) Roll Attack Pool
4) Modify Attack Pool - attacker rerolls, add, modify, change, spend
5) Spend Accuracies 

    a. (you may not spend accuracies after this step)

    b. (yes you do remove the accuracy die when it is spent)

 

6) Defender spends Defense tokens

   a. defender rerolls, evades spent and resolved here, then defender chooses to spend others
7) Attacker chooses critical effect

   a. contain spent here, resolve special critical effects here
8) Total damage - brace resolves here
9) Deal damage - Redirect/scatter resolves here

  a. Standard crit effect resolves here:  First damage card is face up.
 

--

 

Measuring Step 1: 

 - Hull zones are only the cardboard within the two lines

 - Squadrons are measured for range and LOS from the closest point on the squadron cardboard.

1.  Arc:  Is the target hull zone within the attacker arc (and at a distance where you can gather dice)

2.  LOS: Does the line from yellow dot to yellow dot not cross a defender's hull line?  (crossing an attacker hull line is ok).

   a.  Obstruction: true or false - does that line go through an obstacle or another ship?  (don't remove 2 dice for 2rocks/ships)

   b.  Shield teeth and, i think, shield dials count for obstructing (need double check)

3.  Range:  measure from closest point of hull zones to each other.  (if this line crosses another defending hull zone, you do not have LOS)

 

Let me know if I got anything wrong.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Blail Blerg

[Lyraeus 4,759]

One day I will get it right. . . One day. . . Next time I will just post my video. . .

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

One day I will get it right. . . One day. . . Next time I will just post my video. . .

 

Having a video is really nice.  

 

But for most of us in the middle of a game, where my opponent tries to spend his accuracies that i forced him to reroll off of an evade token... I just want to be able to point to some text and tell him to read the rules.  

[DWRR 898]

Measuring range/LOS/arc is rarely a ball ache and is always super quick despite these much maligned "three steps".

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

 

I belive that Enhanced Armament increases your battery. I'm not sure there is a distinction between "increase" and "add too," but I may well be wrong. I believe the distinction lies between "Battery" and "Pool."

Everyone agrees with that but me simply because every single card that deals in adding dice to the Gather the Attack Pool has the words "Increase" and "Battery" and every card that deals in adding dice during the modify step has the words "Add" and "Attack Pool"

 

So a correlation should be made but DA, ScottieATF, or Der will come along eventually and tell me I am wrong.

 

 

You're wrong.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

...what were we talking about?