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HolySorcerer

Interview about new FFG policy. Yes, they're jacking up online prices.

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How would it affect your taxes? It would still be income that you'd have to declare and pay taxes on, it'd just be a second hand sale instead of a primary purchase. Like when a game store buys a pack of magic cards, breaks them open, and sells the now second hand individual cards separately.

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How would it affect your taxes? It would still be income that you'd have to declare and pay taxes on, it'd just be a second hand sale instead of a primary purchase. Like when a game store buys a pack of magic cards, breaks them open, and sells the now second hand individual cards separately.

 

Probably something about how it affects your ability to thusly Re-Stock from a Distributor afterwards, if you havn't sold at some semblance of Recommended Retail.

 

I don't know.  I havn't actually read a distributor agreement to verify that, only heard scuttlebutt...

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I'm not sure if this is still an issue for people but since it's been necro'd, I'll add what i know. 

 

I work at a game store, our cost for a $99.99 MSRP Imperial Assault or Armada core set is $57, Miniature Market was selling it for around $65 (now $75, not much of a price hike really) with about $6 S/H and no sales tax. If we sold it at that price we'd only be making around an $8-10 dollar profit, you can't really keep a brick and mortar store running with that.

 

But without stores like ours these game doesn't grow or thrive because they need a community of players, and we provide a free space for people to meet and play games, then others see the games being played and want to try it/ buy it. Over the past 6 months the X-wing group has gained at least 8 new players, and a bunch of other customers bought the game after seeing us playing it. So keeping the LSGs in business keeps the game alive.

 

I'm not against buying online, at least half of my collection is from MM (before i discover my store), I just think need to put the issue into perspective is all.

but physical stores do get money from tournament and league fees yes? if you provide a service then you can get paid for those services. 

 

the truth is that many physical stores prefer to sell 2 boxes at full price instead of 10 boxes at a discount, even though overall profit may be larger for 10 boxes at a discount. so they don't like online stores's competition. it's the typical "capitalist" free economy view from Asmodee and some physical stores. Asmodee shouldn't manipulate and discriminate towards physical vs online stores. businesses like free capitalists economy until they don't because someone is out-competing with them. like banks who don't like government regulation but do like government bail-outs.

 

 

The casual tournaments and magic drafts help of course, but it's really not as significantly as you're suggesting. We still have to pay for the kits and the employees running the events.

 

As I understand, Asmodee isn't discriminating against online sellers, they're just limiting the discount that distributors can give to online stores. As it was online sellers were paying much less for the games than the physical stores were. If anything the distributors were"manipulating and discriminating" the market in favor of online stores over physical stores.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of local store like us to sell games at a discount, and I've been able to convince the owner to sell a few things at 10% less than MSRP. However there's still a limit to how many sale we can make locally, whereas online sellers may still have a limit, but it's nowhere near as low as ours is. 

 

Looking at MM's prices, there's really not that much of an increase. A small X-Wing expansion has raised from $9.99 to $11.29, is a $1.30 price hike really going to hurt your wallet that much?

 

 

Your missing the point.

 

Now stores have to sell ONLY online.

 

Or ONLY in person.

 

That is the punch in the face to stores.  Many smaller stores do rely on online sales to help them stay afloat.  I do believe that adaption is key to business.  However the fact is Asmodee is the one hurting the FLGS in this scenarion as well.  Yet they lie about "trying to help FLGS" kinda of sick joke really.

 

Price increases is the punch in the face to consumers.  (some folks like getting punched in the face it seems)

 

Watch the video link to the interview as well.

 

 

 

No, I'm not missing the point because this thread's topic is about the online price hike, not about stores being forced to sell either online or locally. But I agree with your issue there, it absolutely runs the risk of hurting small store that need to supplement their sales in the online market. 

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The casual tournaments and magic drafts help of course, but it's really not as significantly as you're suggesting. We still have to pay for the kits and the employees running the events.

 

As I understand, Asmodee isn't discriminating against online sellers, they're just limiting the discount that distributors can give to online stores. As it was online sellers were paying much less for the games than the physical stores were. If anything the distributors were"manipulating and discriminating" the market in favor of online stores over physical stores.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of local store like us to sell games at a discount, and I've been able to convince the owner to sell a few things at 10% less than MSRP. However there's still a limit to how many sale we can make locally, whereas online sellers may still have a limit, but it's nowhere near as low as ours is. 

 

Looking at MM's prices, there's really not that much of an increase. A small X-Wing expansion has raised from $9.99 to $11.29, is a $1.30 price hike really going to hurt your wallet that much?

 

Your missing the point.

 

Now stores have to sell ONLY online.

 

Or ONLY in person.

Only online or brick and mortar? It's 2016, so that limitation sounds silly, invites to simply create a shell company (with us tax laws this might be a good move anyway) to deal with the online sales. And it is totally not a thing in Europe as my FLGS is definitely selling online, which is handy, because you can check availability online and catch your stuff directly in store.

Though we pay 13.50€ for a small expansion here. ;-)

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I honestly do not care if your game store is the best in the world or the worst in the world all of the comments flying back and fourth on this have no relevance in this topic. Why because most people who post on here do not frequent your game store. The thing is some of us have to rely on Online Stores to buy product. Not because its cheaper, not because we are cheaper but because we either don't have a store within reasonable distance or the one that we do have we wouldn't give money to. 

 

I have a store 45 minutes away from my house. I used to go in there from time to time to buy stuff until I saw how the business was actually run. Selling FNM cards after tournaments, prices 25%+ above MSRP, and not putting stock on their shelves when it comes in because friends of the store might be interested in it and if they aren't then they will sell it to you. 

 

I personally don't play X-wing in a store so for me its a non issue if the local game store stays open or closes. I also don't feel entitled because I used to get my ships from Mini Market for near 35% off. But what I do feel is a little slighted that FFG/Asmodee thinks that they are doing all of gaming a service by limiting certain companies from their previous business models. Miniature Market does more for gaming then half of the so called "Great gaming stores" that people talk about. 

I will give one example, I live in Canada and I bought the CR-90 from Mini Market and when I got it back to Canada it was damaged. I contacted FFG first and they told me that I would have to contact the company I bought it from for that particular model because they didn't deal with returns or replacements on it. When I contacted Mini Market and explained the scenario and that I was hesitant about contacting them because this issue wasn't their fault "The defect was hidden by the way it was packaged". They told me that they would contact on my behalf. They did and after 2 months of then having to deal with FFG and 3 sets of pictures later I got a replacement. But on top of all of that Mini Market gave me a $15 store credit because I had that experience with their product. 

 

Places like Mini Market and Cool Stuff Inc aren't just faceless business' that take your money and walk straight to the bank. They care about their customers and they sell more ships in a week for this game that we love then your LFGS sells in a year. So if your LFGS can't stay afloat by selling at MSRP and providing you with a space to play and a friendly environment then welcome to my world and the reason that I don't care about my local gaming store. 

 

As a small example I would be paying 17.15 US right now for a small ship and 78 US for a Gonzati so tell me if you wouldn't take the online price of 11.29 and 52.49 from Miniature Market instead.

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You don't care about brick and mortars, fine. How about caring about the industry as a whole. Where the expected value of board games has been twisted by online discounts. X-wing isn't a big example of this. But things like Descent, Rebellion, I've seen how this attitude has come up in Kickstarter, and is quite likely quite prevalent in the board game community. Most probably think I am crazy for seeing value in the MSRP of Descent and Imperial Assault. 

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I have no problem at all with the value of the game. I personally think 14.99 for a single small ship is very reasonable. I also think that 23-26 dollars for a medium sized ship (Falcon or Slave 1) is also reasonable. What I don't think is reasonable is getting an added discount for being a brick and mortar store and knowing that the online stores aren't getting as good of a discount anymore yet still raising your prices to over inflated prices. We want to talk about the stores who were cutting throats to get the cheapest prices on the web, well how about the stores who have the highest prices because they know people have nowhere else to go? 

 

I priced my last order from miniature market at $120 US and at the time I think it worked out to something like 153 Canadian or something like that. The exact same order from the closest store to me would have cost 270 Canadian plus 13% Taxes. Which means I could have doubled up my MM order for the same price. Were MM's prices low and possibly needed to come up a bit sure, but there are a lot of stores who are now laughing themselves to the bank because of what they can get away with.

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A lot of people get upset when they feel entitled to something and it gets taken away... even when they shouldn't have been getting it in the first place. doesn't make them right. also, I can read just fine thank you. You seem to be mistaking my disagreeing with your methods as ignorance. I can assure you it's not.

 

Oh the "Entitlement" argument.  Please dude stop with the political nonsense!

 

If anyone feels entitled it is FFG/Asmodee when they decide they are entitled to control consumer spending habits more.  If you actually believe the "entitled" nonsense then Asmodee feels entitled to dictate the market to consumers do they not?  But thats ok in your universe... whats not ok is consumers being unhappy with that? 

 

The vast majority of gamers do not share that ignorant view.  Some are choosing to no longer purchase Asmodee/FFG/Days of Wonder products.  Thats a tall order being 20% of ALL THE GAMING MARKET.  Others are voicing dissent like I have and are choosing to purchase MORE online to save money.

 

 

Asmodee doesn't exist without customers that's reality.  There is no "entitlement" that's simply the fact. 

 

The joke is so many people believing Asmodee was helping FLGS.  They are not they are in fact limiting the ability of stores to make money by cutting off ALL online sales.  This is the INTERNET AGE.  Have fun running a store with no internet allowed.  Few companies now a days actually are able to do that.

 

 

TallTony your not ignorant you simply being a corporate fanboy/shill in regards to this issue.  That's your choice but it is the truth.

So, this was from January. It is now April. What has happened? You can't buy online anymore? No, looks like you still can... Don't get things at a discount? No, still looks like you can get it a lot cheaper than I'm paying at my flgs.... Remind me what the problem is? Or just keep repeating the same tired arguments that were shot down months ago, and label anyone who doesn't agree with you as a shill.

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--

 

As a small example I would be paying 17.15 US right now for a small ship and 78 US for a Gonzati so tell me if you wouldn't take the online price of 11.29 and 52.49 from Miniature Market instead.

 

Those ships MSRP is $15 and $70 US, why are you being charged more, is it because you're in Canada?

 

Personally I don't see anything wrong with buying online if you're just playing at home with friends, but some of us (myself included) don't have friends who game outside of the FLGSs and if you're playing at those stores you should probably be buying a good chuck of your games from them, especially if they're not charging you to play there. Most of my X-wing is from MM, but that was before my X-wing buddy moved away, and if not for the store I would have stopped playing a year ago.

 

Honestly though, the online price hike is like 10-13 percent from what I'm seeing. Is $1.30 more for a small ship from MM really putting that much strain on your expenses?

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I am fairly confident that the average discount that a brick and mortar gets from their distributor isn't less. But, I don't think the difference is as great as it used to be. The issue is, and I think Peterson alluded to this previously, One of the major sources of a discount is bulk orders. I don't think the discounts were too off from that previously. 

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I don't think I can jump in to another game. X Wing the Gathering, enter the shekel clutching. I am fine with higher prices, plastic crack has always been expensive. I'm more concerned about the "Wizards"ing.

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I personally don't play X-wing in a store so for me its a non issue if the local game store stays open or closes. I also don't feel entitled because I used to get my ships from Mini Market for near 35% off. But what I do feel is a little slighted that FFG/Asmodee thinks that they are doing all of gaming a service by limiting certain companies from their previous business models. Miniature Market does more for gaming then half of the so called "Great gaming stores" that people talk about. 

I will give one example, I live in Canada and I bought the CR-90 from Mini Market and when I got it back to Canada it was damaged. I contacted FFG first and they told me that I would have to contact the company I bought it from for that particular model because they didn't deal with returns or replacements on it. When I contacted Mini Market and explained the scenario and that I was hesitant about contacting them because this issue wasn't their fault "The defect was hidden by the way it was packaged". They told me that they would contact on my behalf. They did and after 2 months of then having to deal with FFG and 3 sets of pictures later I got a replacement. But on top of all of that Mini Market gave me a $15 store credit because I had that experience with their product. 

 

Places like Mini Market and Cool Stuff Inc aren't just faceless business' that take your money and walk straight to the bank. They care about their customers and they sell more ships in a week for this game that we love then your LFGS sells in a year. So if your LFGS can't stay afloat by selling at MSRP and providing you with a space to play and a friendly environment then welcome to my world and the reason that I don't care about my local gaming store.

What a bunch of rubbish. First you are defending a store who **** you over for a months over a extremely minor issue which amazon would have dealt with within 24 hours by simply replacing the model and deal with FFG afterwards without making you wait for it.

 

Next you complain that online stores do not get much higher discount from FFG than brick and mortar stores and blame LFGS for not competitive with someone who got the stuff 40% cheaper from FFG . What the **** is wrong with you? Online still gets subsidy compared to brick and mortar stores and you complain that the subsidy is not high enough because this makes you pay more?

 

And you try justify this even in part by not liking your not so friendly local store on top of it, because that store offers good service to his regulars. Amazing logic.

(And I am not saying that your LGS is not sh*tty, you might just not make your point on how bad the store really is.)

 

Rubbish. 

 

If you want to complain about something, complain that online stores are getting subsidies from FFG with larger discounts and keeping local stores out of online with that completely arbitrary rule that you can not sell online and in stores for whatever reason. I can order from that corner store next street fresh humus and bread online, but apparently FFG demands that a american FLGS is not selling FFG stuff via their webpage. Is that really a thing on the american market? 

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I'm not sure if this is still an issue for people but since it's been necro'd, I'll add what i know. 

 

I work at a game store, our cost for a $99.99 MSRP Imperial Assault or Armada core set is $57, Miniature Market was selling it for around $65 (now $75, not much of a price hike really) with about $6 S/H and no sales tax. If we sold it at that price we'd only be making around an $8-10 dollar profit, you can't really keep a brick and mortar store running with that.

 

But without stores like ours these game doesn't grow or thrive because they need a community of players, and we provide a free space for people to meet and play games, then others see the games being played and want to try it/ buy it. Over the past 6 months the X-wing group has gained at least 8 new players, and a bunch of other customers bought the game after seeing us playing it. So keeping the LSGs in business keeps the game alive.

 

I'm not against buying online, at least half of my collection is from MM (before i discover my store), I just think need to put the issue into perspective is all.

but physical stores do get money from tournament and league fees yes? if you provide a service then you can get paid for those services. 

 

the truth is that many physical stores prefer to sell 2 boxes at full price instead of 10 boxes at a discount, even though overall profit may be larger for 10 boxes at a discount. so they don't like online stores's competition. it's the typical "capitalist" free economy view from Asmodee and some physical stores. Asmodee shouldn't manipulate and discriminate towards physical vs online stores. businesses like free capitalists economy until they don't because someone is out-competing with them. like banks who don't like government regulation but do like government bail-outs.

 

 

The casual tournaments and magic drafts help of course, but it's really not as significantly as you're suggesting. We still have to pay for the kits and the employees running the events.

 

As I understand, Asmodee isn't discriminating against online sellers, they're just limiting the discount that distributors can give to online stores. As it was online sellers were paying much less for the games than the physical stores were. If anything the distributors were"manipulating and discriminating" the market in favor of online stores over physical stores.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of local store like us to sell games at a discount, and I've been able to convince the owner to sell a few things at 10% less than MSRP. However there's still a limit to how many sale we can make locally, whereas online sellers may still have a limit, but it's nowhere near as low as ours is. 

 

Looking at MM's prices, there's really not that much of an increase. A small X-Wing expansion has raised from $9.99 to $11.29, is a $1.30 price hike really going to hurt your wallet that much?

 

 

Your missing the point.

 

Now stores have to sell ONLY online.

 

Or ONLY in person.

 

That is the punch in the face to stores.  Many smaller stores do rely on online sales to help them stay afloat.  I do believe that adaption is key to business.  However the fact is Asmodee is the one hurting the FLGS in this scenarion as well.  Yet they lie about "trying to help FLGS" kinda of sick joke really.

 

Price increases is the punch in the face to consumers.  (some folks like getting punched in the face it seems)

 

Watch the video link to the interview as well.

 

 

 

No, I'm not missing the point because this thread's topic is about the online price hike, not about stores being forced to sell either online or locally. But I agree with your issue there, it absolutely runs the risk of hurting small store that need to supplement their sales in the online market. 

 

 

This is actually both a price hike for the consumers, 50% plus of merchandise is bought online perhaps? 

 

And.... in the last week or so with the interviews that have come out clarification by Asmodee NA shows they are slapping FLGS in the face by telling them they have to sign a contract to sell ONLY in person or Only online. 

 

I do say adapt for business.  But Asmodee is taking one of the best tools out the FLGS toolbox, the ability to sell product online.  That is flat out screwing the stores especially outside of larger urban areas. 

 

Interesting now Sithborg and Asmodee shills are changing their tunes from  "Its going to save the FLGS" to "Ya those FLGS don't deserve to survive anyways."   Lol... ya...ok....

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I will give one example, I live in Canada and I bought the CR-90 from Mini Market and when I got it back to Canada it was damaged. I contacted FFG first and they told me that I would have to contact the company I bought it from for that particular model because they didn't deal with returns or replacements on it. 

 

 

Which is normal, standard practice and in warranty situations pretty much mandatory. If you buy something and there is something wrong with it, you first go to the point of purchase, not to the manufacturer. Would you contact Mercedes or your car dealer? Would you go to the supermarket or Nutella?

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You don't care about brick and mortars, fine. How about caring about the industry as a whole. Where the expected value of board games has been twisted by online discounts. X-wing isn't a big example of this. But things like Descent, Rebellion, I've seen how this attitude has come up in Kickstarter, and is quite likely quite prevalent in the board game community. Most probably think I am crazy for seeing value in the MSRP of Descent and Imperial Assault.

What IS the benefit of a higher MSRP?

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You don't care about brick and mortars, fine. How about caring about the industry as a whole. Where the expected value of board games has been twisted by online discounts. X-wing isn't a big example of this. But things like Descent, Rebellion, I've seen how this attitude has come up in Kickstarter, and is quite likely quite prevalent in the board game community. Most probably think I am crazy for seeing value in the MSRP of Descent and Imperial Assault.

What IS the benefit of a higher MSRP?

 

 

That is the thing that is so frustrating about this whole argument. MSRP isn't changing. But, Asmodee is attempting to prevent the devaluation of the expensive hobby games. Honestly, X-wing isn't even a real factor in this discussion, imo. They are attempting to prevent the attitude that MSRP is overcharging. If you can't afford MSRP, that's fine. But that is far, far different than looking at MSRP and scoffing at it because the value of the contents of boardgames has been so twisted by the online retailers. 

 

Imperial Assault is a $100 game. Accept it or not. And yes, Asmodee will likely lose sales. But, they are taking a long term approach. Because they don't want the wholesale collapse of the hobby board game industry. 

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That is the thing that is so frustrating about this whole argument. MSRP isn't changing. But, Asmodee is attempting to prevent the devaluation of the expensive hobby games. Honestly, X-wing isn't even a real factor in this discussion, imo. They are attempting to prevent the attitude that MSRP is overcharging. If you can't afford MSRP, that's fine. But that is far, far different than looking at MSRP and scoffing at it because the value of the contents of boardgames has been so twisted by the online retailers. 

 

Imperial Assault is a $100 game. Accept it or not. And yes, Asmodee will likely lose sales. But, they are taking a long term approach. Because they don't want the wholesale collapse of the hobby board game industry.

Ok, sorry, I misspoke.

What is the benefit to the consumer, of having a high MSRP? Artificial or not, what's the benefit?

EDIT: I recently picked up Imperial Assault for $70. How does that hurt the gaming industry?

DOUBLE EDIT: If everyone bought Imperial Assault for $70, and the MSRP was never paid, how does that hurt the gaming industry?

Edited by Chucknuckle

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How the is Asmodee suppose to take over the gaming industry if you don't pay the full $100?

 

Man some people! ;)

 

Feed Asmodee CEO Stéphane Carvill he needs MORE MONEY!!!!

Edited by Tokyogriz

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