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USCGrad90

Open Post to TFA Detractors (Potential Spoilers)

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In contrast we've got fairly long sequences that were almost completely extraneous to the story.

 

Like the confrontation with Han and the two smuggler groups (don't get me wrong - it was a good sequence - it just added next to nothing to the story) - that could have easily been dealt with in 1 or 2 mins of screen time by having the First Order show up (they were still in orbit around the same planet after all - and would have been tracking the Falcon).

 

That scene added a lot to the story.

It establishes what Han's been up to, and that he's not been very successful giving him a reason to return to the Resistance.

It reinforces that Rey is good with tech and can think fast on her feet.

It shows that while Finn is terrified of the FO he wants to protect those he cares about from danger - sizing up the invaders then seeing they have guns making it harder to ambush.

It shows that the FO has a wide reach from the pirate recognizing the droid.

 

And it gives us a huge base freighter and a land octopus creature to fight in our games.

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When I was in college and worked in a movie theatre, a close friend and I had a very simple method for judging film.

Every film started with 5 stars. Every time you looked at your watch to see how much time was left, you took a star away. This method reflects on pacing, acting, story, etc...

In TFA, I checked the time once. So I don't consider it a perfect film, but 4 of 5 stars.

I thought there were enough moments that made me laugh, cry, and keep me on the edge of my seat to make it worthwhile.

So if you fell asleep during the first 10 minutes of the film, it'd get 5/5. Good system. ;)
That's the inverse of my Dad's system. He's 67, and for every 10 min a movie can keep him awake it gets 1 star. Star Wars was 5/5.

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Avatar, a great movie....I don't follow. You are talking about James Cameron's Avatar, right?

It has semi-naked blue aliens. Riding dinosaurs. IN 3D. What's not to like?

edit: (well, apart from the fact that they beat the Colonial Marines from Aliens, that is).

edit 2: Man, it was hopelessly derivative, wasn't it?

All that stuff you mentioned. That's what I didn't enjoy. Even the 3D.

The dinosaurs were ok. But not good enough to save a terrible movie.

My opinion, obviously.

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And it gives us a huge base freighter and a land octopus creature to fight in our games.

I don't care about the transport (either in X-Wing or in Armada) but I'll take the new creatures for Imperial Assault!

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The best parts of the movie, to me, were the new bits. Rey! Poe! Finn! They were all great characters with interesting interactions. Maz! She clearly has some interesting stuff going on, and finding out what that stuff is clearly isn't the point of this movie.

Then the weaker bits. Han. I'm not sure why he was in this movie, other than "He's a main character from the original movies". His whole plot with Kylo felt like it was dropped in from some other (also enjoyable) movie.

Captain Phasma. Without all the marketing hype behind her character, she might not bother me. But dang. What a letdown. She really is Boba Fett mark 2: armored, mostly silent, and not nearly as badass on screen as she is in our minds.

Also, most disappointingly: NO ONE LOSES A LIMB!! :(

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I was 9 years old when the first Star Wars movie was released and saw it in theatres. The primary things that a lot of us took away from the film was that it was done on a grand scale and presented an Epic story for the ages. It was a movie that nearly everyone could connect to in some way and have emotions stirred.

We didn't obsess over the obvious similarities to Flash Gordon or elements taken from other films and stories, but instead chose to enjoy the movie and let ourselves get caught up in the magic.

TFA is a film that once again has captured imaginations and stirred emotion. It has families watching together in the theatres and most fans excited for what is yet to come.

Yes, there may be elements that could be done better artistically and there are aspects of the film taken directly from the original storyline.

A billion dollars later, it's hard not to agree that this movie is doing something well enough that has the majority of us excited for what will come next. Please keep that in mind and remember to enjoy the ride, keeping your hands in the vehicle at all times.

but im not 9 years old any more. if they cant de-age me before i enter the theater then its no good.

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In contrast we've got fairly long sequences that were almost completely extraneous to the story.

 

Like the confrontation with Han and the two smuggler groups (don't get me wrong - it was a good sequence - it just added next to nothing to the story) - that could have easily been dealt with in 1 or 2 mins of screen time by having the First Order show up (they were still in orbit around the same planet after all - and would have been tracking the Falcon).

 

That scene added a lot to the story.

It establishes what Han's been up to, and that he's not been very successful giving him a reason to return to the Resistance.

It reinforces that Rey is good with tech and can think fast on her feet.

It shows that while Finn is terrified of the FO he wants to protect those he cares about from danger - sizing up the invaders then seeing they have guns making it harder to ambush.

It shows that the FO has a wide reach from the pirate recognizing the droid.

 

And it gives us a huge base freighter and a land octopus creature to fight in our games.

 

 

There's nothing there that we either didn't already know, didn't really need to know, or couldn't have been added in a far less contrived, tangential, and above all shorter way- which could have given more screen time to filling the storyline blanks.

 

It's a fluff scene for the extended edition - not a core plot device

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The thing that makes analyzing TFA a pain is the fact that most people aren't seeing things the same way they did when they were younger. I mean, I probably saw the original trilogy sometime in elementary school. There's a big difference seeing those movies through the eyes of a kid compared to seeing a move with a lot to live up to, thorough the eyes of a 40 year old. Taking my 9 and 11 year old to watch TFA allowed me to see that they will probably love TFA in the way that I loved A New Hope.

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In contrast we've got fairly long sequences that were almost completely extraneous to the story.

 

Like the confrontation with Han and the two smuggler groups (don't get me wrong - it was a good sequence - it just added next to nothing to the story) - that could have easily been dealt with in 1 or 2 mins of screen time by having the First Order show up (they were still in orbit around the same planet after all - and would have been tracking the Falcon).

 

That scene added a lot to the story.

It establishes what Han's been up to, and that he's not been very successful giving him a reason to return to the Resistance.

It reinforces that Rey is good with tech and can think fast on her feet.

It shows that while Finn is terrified of the FO he wants to protect those he cares about from danger - sizing up the invaders then seeing they have guns making it harder to ambush.

It shows that the FO has a wide reach from the pirate recognizing the droid.

 

And it gives us a huge base freighter and a land octopus creature to fight in our games.

 

There's nothing there that we either didn't already know, didn't really need to know, or couldn't have been added in a far less contrived, tangential, and above all shorter way- which could have given more screen time to filling the storyline blanks.

 

It's a fluff scene for the extended edition - not a core plot device

Yeah, but it was fun! Which was very lacking in SW for a long time.

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While the movie was alright how could this movie guarantee that the next movie will be any good? You can only rehash a story so many times and to be honest rehashing Empire will not work as well as rehashing a new hope.

 

The movie was alright for a rehash but that is just the thing. It was a rehash. Lets not forget the mess that was into darkness. Yes I know it sounds silly at first that people were wondering J.J. would make episode 7 as bad a Jar Jar then when it comes out for people to already be worrying about if the next one will be good but you have to admit copying the same story again and again will start to get stale.

 

The next movie cannot be a rehash if it were to be any good. JJ proved that he can rehash a good movie alright but what about making a new story or a new continuation of a good story? His skills as a director has yet to be tested and proven.

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I don't think the next one will be made to echo Empire as much as this one did Star Wars. This one was to get people back into Star Wars, to get both new fans and old fans hooked. With that done they can go and do new stuff.

That's my feeling about it too

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I remember disliking phantom menace pretty much from sceen 2. We went into episode 2 and 3 wary and they got better, but still had issues.

TFA delivered my back the feeling of watching Jedi as a child. I am just a hair older than episode 4. Star Wars is synonymous with my childhood.

Cinematicly TFA has the virtues and vices of ep 4 and 6. To complain that 7 is bad you have to trash 6 the vices are identical. In the case of 6 we don't even have the amazing new chatacters. 6 gave us Ewoks, which led to some terrible TV content, which I still watched.

7 did two things and did them very well. It gave us new, engaging heroes and it primed the pump for something new. I was quite bitter about a phantom menace by this time after seeing it. We were hopeful, but guarded about the next films. Now I'm just hopeful and excited to see what is next.

Ultimately these stories are versions of the heroes arc. A story we have been telling each other since out best tech was a fire. Star Wars is about the people, and we have amazing new people whose stories we will get to share.

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Okay, just as long as hating it because an inexperienced character, using easily countered stabbing attacks, using a highly dangerous new weapon, who was previously immobilized by the mind alone of her opponent, who suddenly became a badass because her opponent said the word "force" defeated an opponent who was vastly more skilled, who had previously held his opponent immobilized with his mind alone, who was familiar with his weapon, is okay.

This is right on. Kylo had likely been practicing for years, had some training at the hands of luke and was good enough to kill every other trainee. The only excuse he has is that he was wounded, which i would have prefered been more obvious if that was the reason.

Then there is maz' ties everything up chracter. When I start having flashbacks to jeepers creepers in the theatre it is a bad sign!

Wtf with sleeping beauty r2d2? I could go on and on with little nitpicky things. I thought the movie was entertaining overall but with the resources at their disposal why wasn't this the best movie I've ever seen?

Not the best movie despite all the money and talent? Is that what you think makes a great movie?

Someone with a vision to tell a story and tell it well, pushing the medium to its limits, this is what makes great movies. On this only Star Wars (the first one, what they call ANH now) out of this saga qualifies because it was a loving homage to movies in general and some in specific including The Hidden Fortress, as well as pushing the boundaries of special effects to amazing heights. Star Wars was a great work of art that told an ancient story but told it well and with great craftsmanship and care, making something unique. Then came the sequels. And yes TESB is a great sequel and I would say a great movie but it can't stand alone, it needs ANH to exist, and it needs ROTJ for closure.

Great movies stand the test of time, true classics like Wizard of Oz, 2001, Metropolis, and hundreds of others. Is TFA a good movie? Yes. Is it great? Well....

Is "someone with a vision to tell a story and tell it well" not considered talent? You cannot tell me what Disney needed to make the greatest Star Wars movie ever that they could not have aquired. This includes great writers or team of writers. I don't understand why you put me on blast; it looks like we have the same opinion.

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At the end of the day, it's a movie.

People are allowed to love it or hate it for their own reasons.

Well, sort of yea.

But if they hate it because Rey "beat a Sith Lord" then they are objectively mistaken.

Okay, just as long as hating it because an inexperienced character, using easily countered stabbing attacks, using a highly dangerous new weapon, who was previously immobilized by the mind alone of her opponent, who suddenly became a badass because her opponent said the word "force" defeated an opponent who was vastly more skilled, who had previously held his opponent immobilized with his mind alone, who was familiar with his weapon, is okay.

But he's not saying that. He's saying Kylo Ren isn't a Sith Lord. He's not.

Kylo is clearly still at the apprentice level when Snoke says "it's time to complete his training."

Having just re-watched The Empire Strikes Back, Luke was a joke as well before he completed his training.

And I haven't seen anyone saying they hate the movie because Kylo was "a Sith lord". Plenty complaining that he was defeated, but narrowing the argument to the single point that he was a Sith Lord is setting up the argument to defeat it.
Read the other couple complaint threads on these forums and you'll see at least one OP and quite a few posters complaining about Rey beating a Sith Lord. They might as well be crying about Luke defeating Vader or hitting ties from the gunner seat in episode 4.
Those are completely different actions or timeframes. If Disney doesn't want me to bag on illogical events in a movie they shouldn't make me wait 2 years for them to be explained. Edited by channellockjon

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At the end of the day, it's a movie.

People are allowed to love it or hate it for their own reasons.

Well, sort of yea.

But if they hate it because Rey "beat a Sith Lord" then they are objectively mistaken.

Okay, just as long as hating it because an inexperienced character, using easily countered stabbing attacks, using a highly dangerous new weapon, who was previously immobilized by the mind alone of her opponent, who suddenly became a badass because her opponent said the word "force" defeated an opponent who was vastly more skilled, who had previously held his opponent immobilized with his mind alone, who was familiar with his weapon, is okay.

But he's not saying that. He's saying Kylo Ren isn't a Sith Lord. He's not.

Kylo is clearly still at the apprentice level when Snoke says "it's time to complete his training."

Having just re-watched The Empire Strikes Back, Luke was a joke as well before he completed his training.

And I haven't seen anyone saying they hate the movie because Kylo was "a Sith lord". Plenty complaining that he was defeated, but narrowing the argument to the single point that he was a Sith Lord is setting up the argument to defeat it.
Read the other couple complaint threads on these forums and you'll see at least one OP and quite a few posters complaining about Rey beating a Sith Lord. They might as well be crying about Luke defeating Vader or hitting ties from the gunner seat in episode 4.
Those are completely different actions or timeframes. If Disney doesn't want me to bag on illogical events in a movie they shouldn't make me wait 2 years for them to be explained.

Why is it all the people bagging on Rey beating Kylo like to ignore the minor detail that his ass got shot with the bow caster before he ever started the fight. Every other thing that gother hit with that weapon blew the hell up. They even made the point with him hitting himself and bleeding all over the place. Seriously, did the part where he sustained a mortal wound, but lived and kept fighting just fly past you?

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Captain Phasma. Without all the marketing hype behind her character, she might not bother me. But dang. What a letdown. She really is Boba Fett mark 2: armored, mostly silent, and not nearly as badass on screen as she is in our minds.

 

True, but at least Boba fires off a few shots, uses a jet pack and has a cool ship.

 

Phasma just... capitulates.

Edited by FTS Gecko

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Captain Phasma. Without all the marketing hype behind her character, she might not bother me. But dang. What a letdown. She really is Boba Fett mark 2: armored, mostly silent, and not nearly as badass on screen as she is in our minds.

 

True, but at least Boba fires off a few shows, uses a jet pack and has a cool ship.

 

Phasma just... capitulates.

Yea way too easily. I assume she is resistance or at least not very pro-FO.

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Captain Phasma. Without all the marketing hype behind her character, she might not bother me. But dang. What a letdown. She really is Boba Fett mark 2: armored, mostly silent, and not nearly as badass on screen as she is in our minds.

True, but at least Boba fires off a few shows, uses a jet pack and has a cool ship.

Phasma just... capitulates.

Yea way too easily. I assume she is resistance or at least not very pro-FO.
At the beginning she plays the hard unforgiving captain. Plays the role as she is thoroughly FO indoctrined or indoctrinator? Or is she a double agent or someone with doubts playing even more the hard captain to camo this over?

Anyway, how does she expects to survive the next encounter with either Hux, Kylo or Snoke? Next former FO character on the run?

Or is this all we ever get to see of her?

Edit: added last sentence

Edited by Managarmr

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Okay, just as long as hating it because an inexperienced character, using easily countered stabbing attacks, using a highly dangerous new weapon, who was previously immobilized by the mind alone of her opponent, who suddenly became a badass because her opponent said the word "force" defeated an opponent who was vastly more skilled, who had previously held his opponent immobilized with his mind alone, who was familiar with his weapon, is okay.

This is right on. Kylo had likely been practicing for years, had some training at the hands of luke and was good enough to kill every other trainee. The only excuse he has is that he was wounded, which i would have prefered been more obvious if that was the reason.

Then there is maz' ties everything up chracter. When I start having flashbacks to jeepers creepers in the theatre it is a bad sign!

Wtf with sleeping beauty r2d2? I could go on and on with little nitpicky things. I thought the movie was entertaining overall but with the resources at their disposal why wasn't this the best movie I've ever seen?

 

More obvious? They showed a trail of blood that he left behind, he was clearly hampered by his wound (stopping more than once when it acted up or to strike it to motivate himself--Dark Side runs on pain and anger, after all). They also went out of their way three times to highlight just how powerful the bowcaster is. First when Han send s a guy flying with it and then draws attention to it ("hint, hint" whispers JJ), second when TR-8R gets hit so hard he goes flying despite his armor and tonfa thing, and yet again when the Stormtrooper on Starkiller base hits the wall so hard that you can shattered pieces of his armor on the ground. That only happened to him, so it must have been the wall impact. That bowcaster is like the Star Wars equivalent of a .50 or maybe even a .500 S&W. 

 

So yeah, Kylo Ren had a bit of a problem there. 

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I'm hoping phasma is more of a badass in 8, since she is supposed to be back according to wookiepedia.

We will see, I suppose. She was the only real disappointment for me. Well, that and Darth emo punishing the poor terminals.

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