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Stormtrooper721

Spoiler Alert: A re-hashed plot and other problems with TFA

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For me this movie was great because of the emotional, character driven parts. The whole sequence with Rey scavenging and living a crappy life all without the character speaking until she frees BB from Teedo, that was great movie making, and great music too! Han and Leia, especially the last hug, Han confronting Kylo Ren, Finn and his whole story, all these are great and give this movie heart and depth beyond the recycled plot. Which was recycled but hey.

 

in -this- form, I think we are in agreement :)

 

 

also, and unrelated to the quote; no JJ bashing from me. I don't like the way he did the movies prior to this, but he did some good work with a few series. also, the man (ANY man) doesn't do this movie all alone; so he's neither to blame nor to be applauded for it as the only person who did it. there are many, many persons involved. includiding legal/juristical persons who have A LOT of ideas what they want to see in (and sell via) the movie.

JJ is neither sinner, nor saint. there's no reason to blame him for whatever you/we don't like, if it's not from his very limited workspace where he IS responsible for.

he's no michael bay. now that guy..!

I blame worldwar3 on him. he already ruined the transformers and countless other stuff... :D

Edited by WokeUpDead

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No I'd put bay, jj and snyder in the same category, they can do visuals but can't do characters or story and have no clue about pacing.

That's completely unfair to JJ.

If you really look at Finn and say he can't do characters, then you have absolutely no flippin' idea what you're talking about.

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Just saying.

Starkiller base did exactly what it was meant to do.

The First Order did not lose.

StarKiller base was acceptable losses. Next movie is gonna show FO on the offensive controlling half the Galaxy with the Resistence scrambling to get enough ships and man power.

I disagree, while they may have destroyed the Senate and a large portion of the Republic Fleet by not also destroying the Resistance they've legitimized it's cause.

The Republic was unwilling to act against the FO and essentially banished Leia as a relic, but now she's been proven completely correct. Whatever is left of the Republic military will flock to the Resistance banner, along with a lot of systems. Leia has immediately gained back all of her credibility and standing, now even hardliners FO appeasers would be hard pressed to not support her.

I think the subsequent fight between Resistance and FO will be on much more even footing now that the curtain of the FO has been pulled back.

In essence I think the FO Pearl Harbored themselves.

 

 

Isn't the Empire still around, the FO just being a kind of a splinter?

 

It might be interesting to have the next episode with the Empire going up against the FO, maybe track the FO to their new hidden ice planet base.........

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Is it just me or is there enirely too much trek talk on this forum.

While I can't know what's in the hearts of men, I detect some JJ hating going on. Since he is also responsible for Trek, I think there is an attempt to tie the 2 together as an example of what a lousy film maker JJ is.

What I don't get is how this is supposed to prove JJ is a bad film maker since all 3 films are widely accepted as good movies.

 

 

Well he is getting better: TFA had hardly any lensflares in it.

 

Maybe they should let micheal bay have a go at ep VIII (and r4pe another part of my childhood)*

 

 

* altough he is also getting better, the new TMNT movie actually looks promising (we finally get Bebop and Rocksteady!)

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Now I like fast and furious 1,4,5,6 and 7 but not because they are good films they arnt they are really bad but they know it and have fun with it so I can watch it as brainless entertainment.

It's also fun guessing what super power vin will develop next.

But trek three I will not see.

 

 

Same here (except i don't like fast & the furious), not intrested in 3d trek. Didn't bother with 2nd one because you know; pointless remake.

 

They should let Vin Diesel just star and direct in his own Dungeons & Dragons movie.

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Yeah, it did, but it didn't hold any weight in the movie. It's like "the emperor already dissolved the senate" line from ANH. In some story in the universe somewhere it matters, just not in this movie. None of the characters or plot required that planet to shoot other planets. It could have been a huge base somewhere and that would have worked.

It just felt tacked on.

 

 

I think it's setup for the next movie. Things like that tend to have repercussions.

 

 

 

Actually, cinema sins has already done that in YouTube. It's fun.

 

It's easy and cheap to take something good and pick at every little flaw until it looks bad and call it smart satire. 

 

All those honest trailers and reviews are just people scoring cheap laughs using other people's creativity.

 

It's old, over, tired.  Confusing being negative with being smart. 

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Yeah, it did, but it didn't hold any weight in the movie. It's like "the emperor already dissolved the senate" line from ANH. In some story in the universe somewhere it matters, just not in this movie. None of the characters or plot required that planet to shoot other planets. It could have been a huge base somewhere and that would have worked.

It just felt tacked on.

 

I think it's setup for the next movie. Things like that tend to have repercussions.

 

 

 

Actually, cinema sins has already done that in YouTube. It's fun.

 

It's easy and cheap to take something good and pick at every little flaw until it looks bad and call it smart satire. 

 

All those honest trailers and reviews are just people scoring cheap laughs using other people's creativity.

 

It's old, over, tired.  Confusing being negative with being smart.

The time honored response to any and all criticism. I actually find both of those mostly display a ton of reverence for a lot of the movies they cover. Its pretty obvious in both cases which movies they like and which they do not.

The point is that listing a series of details and/or mistakes doesn't actually do anything in proving or disproving the quality of a film.

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The time honored response to any and all criticism. I actually find both of those mostly display a ton of reverence for a lot of the movies they cover. Its pretty obvious in both cases which movies they like and which they do not.

The point is that listing a series of details and/or mistakes doesn't actually do anything in proving or disproving the quality of a film.

 

 

Oh, I don't mind criticism, but stuff like Honest Trailers isn't about criticism. It's about being negative because there's a group of people who like negativity. It's a trend, a fad, you see it in lots of stuff. From those trailers to the media taking even a slight stagnation in sales of a phone or growth in <social media platform du jour users> as the sign to declare it dead.

 

It's just a lot easier to take somethign someone created and overanalyze and nitpick it to death in order to make money than it is to actually create something. In that respect any Honest Trailer is nothing more than a thinly disguised parasite.

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Well actually Luke was a pilot. In ANH. Obi-one says to Luke in his home "I understand you've become quiet a good pilot yourself." So there is a basis of Luke being able to pilot the fighter.

But I liked your point none the less

Edited by EmpireErik

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I liked the OPs argument except the last part. The movie was a total rewrite of ANH, including the character blends. When they were in the Falcon you can see the blends of Lea and Luke.

But it was and is a well done movie. I am a fan.

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Speaking of the EU, I present The Sequel to the Jedi Academy Trilogy the Inhabitants of the Carida System Deserve

 

LUKE: …so, anyways, if you guys could just release Kyp back into my custody, I’ll just, uh, take him back to Yavin 4, the planet where he initially encountered the spirit of Exar Kun and turned to the dark side, and continue his Jedi training.
 
MON MOTHMA: What? No.
 
LEIA: Absolutely not.
 
BORSK FEY’LYA: It feels borderline criminal that you would even ask us that.
 
MON MOTHMA: This is a court of law. You get that, right? Like…I get that he’s your buddy, or whatever, but he’s literally killed more people than Darth Vader and Moff Tarkin put together.
 
LUKE: Right, right, I know, but he’s really sorry.
 
MON MOTHMA: I mean…okay?

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It's easy and cheap to take something good and pick at every little flaw until it looks bad and call it smart satire.

All those honest trailers and reviews are just people scoring cheap laughs using other people's creativity.

It's old, over, tired. Confusing being negative with being smart.

I was thinking about the films that I consider the best ever, combining subjective and more independent standards. That would be 2001, Danish film Festen and Raise the Red Lantern. It occurred to me I could rip these apart using the basic strategy that some apply here to TFA, or any post RotJ Star Wars film (okay, maybe not Festen). Some tricks are:

- Just take any artistic choice and say it was 'too much'.

- Pick a detail and say it's dumb. Cinema sins takes this to extremes; they just name something and let us figure out why it's bad.

- Give the whole thing some force with rhetorical tricks.

Edited by Lingula

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Speaking of the EU, I present The Sequel to the Jedi Academy Trilogy the Inhabitants of the Carida System Deserve

 

 

 

LUKE: …so, anyways, if you guys could just release Kyp back into my custody, I’ll just, uh, take him back to Yavin 4, the planet where he initially encountered the spirit of Exar Kun and turned to the dark side, and continue his Jedi training.

 
MON MOTHMA: What? No.
 
LEIA: Absolutely not.
 
BORSK FEY’LYA: It feels borderline criminal that you would even ask us that.
 
MON MOTHMA: This is a court of law. You get that, right? Like…I get that he’s your buddy, or whatever, but he’s literally killed more people than Darth Vader and Moff Tarkin put together.
 
LUKE: Right, right, I know, but he’s really sorry.
 
MON MOTHMA: I mean…okay?

 

There was also that whole thing with a clone of Palpatine turning Luke to the Dark Side or some other nonsense. And the Vong, which were an interesting idea but a horrible execution.

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Speaking of the EU, I present The Sequel to the Jedi Academy Trilogy the Inhabitants of the Carida System Deserve

 

 

 

LUKE: …so, anyways, if you guys could just release Kyp back into my custody, I’ll just, uh, take him back to Yavin 4, the planet where he initially encountered the spirit of Exar Kun and turned to the dark side, and continue his Jedi training.

 
MON MOTHMA: What? No.
 
LEIA: Absolutely not.
 
BORSK FEY’LYA: It feels borderline criminal that you would even ask us that.
 
MON MOTHMA: This is a court of law. You get that, right? Like…I get that he’s your buddy, or whatever, but he’s literally killed more people than Darth Vader and Moff Tarkin put together.
 
LUKE: Right, right, I know, but he’s really sorry.
 
MON MOTHMA: I mean…okay?

 

 

Aaaaaaaand this is why the EU needed to burn in a fire.

 

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Speaking of the EU, I present The Sequel to the Jedi Academy Trilogy the Inhabitants of the Carida System Deserve

 

 

 

LUKE: …so, anyways, if you guys could just release Kyp back into my custody, I’ll just, uh, take him back to Yavin 4, the planet where he initially encountered the spirit of Exar Kun and turned to the dark side, and continue his Jedi training.

 
MON MOTHMA: What? No.
 
LEIA: Absolutely not.
 
BORSK FEY’LYA: It feels borderline criminal that you would even ask us that.
 
MON MOTHMA: This is a court of law. You get that, right? Like…I get that he’s your buddy, or whatever, but he’s literally killed more people than Darth Vader and Moff Tarkin put together.
 
LUKE: Right, right, I know, but he’s really sorry.
 
MON MOTHMA: I mean…okay?

 

 

Aaaaaaaand this is why the EU needed to burn in a fire.

 

 

 Please don't let this be the plot of episode VIII ...

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