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Ikka

Technical Issue with TFA (Spoilers)

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So, I just saw the Force Awakens. Really enjoyed it, loved how it actually felt like another adult continuation of the Star Wars universe. I did have some issues with some of the stuff I saw, that I felt violated the universe's own rules.

 

1. Millennium Falcon jumps to hyperspace inside another ship. This one is iffy, I don't know any reason that it couldn't be done, it just feels like something that can't/shouldn't be done.

 

2. Millennium Falcon jumps past a planetary shield, into the planet's atmosphere. This shouldn't be possible right? The gravity well of planets and stars, not to mention an Interdictor cruiser's projectors, doesn't allow for hyperspace travel.

 

3. The X-wings of Black/Red/Blue are able to communicate in hyperspace. As far as I know, communication between ships in hyperspace is a no-no, you can't do it.

 

Am I off base on these or did anyone else wonder the same thing? Please, if I'm wrong let me know, I like learning more about the universe.

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For one and two, i think it helps to understand that the jumping inside of or so close to an object us normally not possible due to inhearent safety mechanisms and failsafes. If these are disabled? I'm sure it is possible with a lot of luck.

Where did you get your hyperspace physics degree? Perhaps it was not possible, previously due to technology that has since improved.

Perhaps it was always possible, we just didn't see it done as the rebels did not have access to the holonet.

Perhaps a ship in hyperspace is only partially out of phase. As long as you know exactly WHERE it is, you can communicate with the ship.

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Points 1 and 2 really bugged me. I actually liked the shield thing. However: interdictors work on gravity generators, jumping into a planet's atmosphere should be impossible. One or the other, but not both.

And as long as they explain why it worked, I'll be ok. But otherwise it'll be Kahn blood cures death.

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Points 1 and 2 really bugged me. I actually liked the shield thing. However: interdictors work on gravity generators, jumping into a planet's atmosphere should be impossible. One or the other, but not both.

And as long as they explain why it worked, I'll be ok. But otherwise it'll be Kahn blood cures death.

I don't think it's anywhere near that agregious, but it definitely took me out of the movie for a second

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Let alone if the millennium falcon was traveling at light speed inside of a planets atmosphere it would have cause a nuclear explosion so large that the star killer would have probably exploded from just that, or at least the shield thing they were trying to blow up....

 

The problem i see is that they just did whatever they wanted just to move the plot along.  Ep IV had the exhaust port in their deathstar and it was a simple quick and easy solution, so they had to come up with a quick and easy solution to get the MF there on the surface of a massive planet past the shields.  My only grip with TFA is that they rebooted A New Hope so hard that it's downright insulting at times and then just did whatever they wanted just to move the movie a long as quickly as possible.  If the starkiller base was so incredibly large and powerful, why not make the series revolve around the destruction of the first order and that base, destroying the base at the end of the third one or something, rather than just killing it off in the first one.  Great, another useless money sinkhole for the first order, the third moon/planet sized base for the imperials and first order.  If they blow up a half built starkiller base in episode IX, I may just lose my ******* mind.

 

I get it, it's a movie, it's a movie for kids.  I'll happily overlook communication between ships in space, just please, for the next two movies, use a different plotline, please.  I was excited to see star wars, i was thrilled to be there, I just left the theater slightly disappointed that in the end I just watched a remake of A New Hope.

 

/rant  I still love star wars, I promise!

Edited by StainlessSteel

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Jumping from the hangar... As long as your course is clean and in the right direction... Don't see a problem.

Jumping into atmo... Well, in theory if you override the safeties that detect gravity wells... It means very bad things if you miss!

Comms in hyperspace. This one bugs me, but Rebels just did that too so it's ultra canon now. Lose that bit of EU which ultimately means nothing anyway.

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OK, here's what I noticed.

 

Starkiller Base is basically a planet that has been excavated around the equator down a couple thousand miles at least, right? So wouldn't the atmosphere "flow" down into that huge chasm and leave the original surface of the planet in near vacuum? An atmosphere on an earth-type planet is very thin compared to the size of the planet, and there was a lot of that planet missing.

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J.J. did a few things that makes it hard to get over. In Star Trek you can beam/transport across the galaxy, no ship needed and come back from the dead.

In Star Wars those planetary sheilds no longer protect you. Why can't an entire squad just jump in?

I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining, I liked there movie. It's just that a few plot devices makes thing easier for one show but muck it up at the same time.

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The main difference between SW and ST is how tech is handled.

 

ST is a hard science franchise - I get it ppl get annoyed when logic breaks. The teleporter thingie was exceedingly bad :) 

 

SW never bothers with explaining science - if something needs to be done to advance the story it can be scientifically done. A lot of the baseline tech in SW is extremely dodgy in it's "scientific" explaination - and when SW tries to insert tech (midi-chlorian count anyone?) it becomes really bad.

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J.J. did a few things that makes it hard to get over. In Star Trek you can beam/transport across the galaxy, no ship needed and come back from the dead.

In Star Wars those planetary sheilds no longer protect you. Why can't an entire squad just jump in?

I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining, I liked there movie. It's just that a few plot devices makes thing easier for one show but muck it up at the same time.

 

I remember they did something like this in the Rogue Squadron books. It worked, but not without casualties. It also barely worked in the film. 

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IIRC Rogue Squadron is able to communicate in hyperspace during the books. Jumping in atmosphere was kinda crazy too, but it's a movie, there's also space wizards and planet guns.

 

Merely mentioning "space wizards" and "planet guns" is not a good enough reason to completely change the way ships have always been used in Star Wars. 

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TFA is set around 30 years or so later than the OT, it's more than feasible that natural technological advancement (especially considering there was a war, which tend to accelerate these things) has solved most of the problems you mention.

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Let alone if the millennium falcon was traveling at light speed inside of a planets atmosphere it would have cause a nuclear explosion so large that the star killer would have probably exploded from just that, or at least the shield thing they were trying to blow up....

 

The problem i see is that they just did whatever they wanted just to move the plot along.  Ep IV had the exhaust port in their deathstar and it was a simple quick and easy solution, so they had to come up with a quick and easy solution to get the MF there on the surface of a massive planet past the shields.  My only grip with TFA is that they rebooted A New Hope so hard that it's downright insulting at times and then just did whatever they wanted just to move the movie a long as quickly as possible.  If the starkiller base was so incredibly large and powerful, why not make the series revolve around the destruction of the first order and that base, destroying the base at the end of the third one or something, rather than just killing it off in the first one.  Great, another useless money sinkhole for the first order, the third moon/planet sized base for the imperials and first order.  If they blow up a half built starkiller base in episode IX, I may just lose my ******* mind.

 

I get it, it's a movie, it's a movie for kids.  I'll happily overlook communication between ships in space, just please, for the next two movies, use a different plotline, please.  I was excited to see star wars, i was thrilled to be there, I just left the theater slightly disappointed that in the end I just watched a remake of A New Hope.

 

/rant  I still love star wars, I promise!

In the EU, they describe hyperspace as a smaller parallel dimension as a way to explain how ships are able to travel through atmospheres without burning up. Eventually you just have to accept that the story would be pretty boring if it had to follow the laws of science.

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TFA is set around 30 years or so later than the OT, it's more than feasible that natural technological advancement (especially considering there was a war, which tend to accelerate these things) has solved most of the problems you mention.

In a galaxy spanning Republic with over 4000 member species that has been around for millennia essentially everything has already been invented by someone else.  That is why technology has been mostly stagnant for about 4000 years.  

 

That being said, the jumping from the ship and jumping into atmosphere aren't as outlandish as they seem.  Here is my take. Hyperspace coordinates are determined a Nav computer which does a massive iterative calculation to find the fastest and safest route for the jump.  Presuming you reduce or turn off the safeties (a well known Smuggler trick I guess), this would not preclude a ship skimming the atmo of a planet to speed up the journey it just makes the calculations take exponentially longer.  Jumping into a gravity well would be difficult but far from impossible. It takes significantly longer because the planets speed and rotation would also have to be taken into account on top of the change in gravitation forces.  If you account for them in the calculation it should be fine.  You wouldn't be able to account for an interdictor pulling you out since you don't know will happen and thus isn't in the equation.  

 

That being said I wish R2 was around to do the calculations since he is certified genius and would have been enough of a justification to let some of the crazier ideas slide (like calculating crazy hyperspace coordinates on the fly).    

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1.  There's a big difference between "can't" and "shouldn't" just like there's a difference between the "can I", "may I", and "should I" when asking about doing something.  Jumping out of a ship should be possible but its risk should border on unacceptable AND if real physics get involved the forces should incredible.

 

2.  I've always seen the reasons for not jumping into a gravity well as being related to a hyperdrive's safety protocols.  It's another one of those things the really should never be done but maybe isn't impossible to do.  Going beyond that into hard science you're back at how huge the energy release from that event should be.

 

3.  You could chalk that up to advances in communications although I've sometimes thought that a powerful enough communicator should be able to breach barriers.  As for communications between ships currently in hyperspace I'd be looking at them from a relative motion standpoint assuming all jumped with the same information.

 

My biggest issue with the movie is probably just the Starkiller base in general or more specifically the super weapon in held.  Just forget about FIRING the weapon for a second and consider that draining/destroying a system's star may already be enough to doom/destroy a system and almost certainly any inhabitable planets in it.

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TFA is set around 30 years or so later than the OT, it's more than feasible that natural technological advancement (especially considering there was a war, which tend to accelerate these things) has solved most of the problems you mention.

 

I don't buy it. 30 years of advancement in Star Wars is nothing at all, just look at the technology difference between Knights of the Old Republic and Empire Strikes Back. It's virtually nothing.

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My biggest issue with the movie is probably just the Starkiller base in general or more specifically the super weapon in held.  Just forget about FIRING the weapon for a second and consider that draining/destroying a system's star may already be enough to doom/destroy a system and almost certainly any inhabitable planets in it.

 

Good point. The consequences of the loss of such a major source of gravity would be devastating to a solar system.

There was never a mention of the base moving either, so how did it charge the first time but still have a star to drain for the second shot?

And, what five planets were destroyed when it was first shot? The First Order wanted to destroy the Republic, so was Coruscant destroyed?

Edited by Ikka

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1.  My biggest issue with the movie is probably just the Starkiller base in general or more specifically the super weapon in held.  Just forget about FIRING the weapon for a second and consider that draining/destroying a system's star may already be enough to doom/destroy a system and almost certainly any inhabitable planets in it.

F/O seems not to care. They neither have any problems with wiping out several whole systems (what a waste) by firing. And if they have destroyed both Resistance and Republic no more need of the weapon, it can be discarded.

Draining the sun too much will destroy the system. However as the weapon can fire sublight it might also drain from another sun?

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SUDDELNY HAN BREAKS TEH RULES

 

and yeah, let's not forget that at that very moment the Death STAR started weighing like a STAR because it consumed the star's matter in huge quantity

 

It's starlicious, batman! 

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The Senate isn't on Coruscant any longer.

Correct, and it wasn't Coruscant destroyed. They mention the system in the briefing. Hussani system???

 

 

could be alderaan2 for all we care; just some planet that -in the movie, at that moment- nobody gives a crap about, because nobody has a reason to. 

as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced - only the force doesn't give a crap, either.

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