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MorbidDon

Las Weapons and You...

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Sooo I've seen all sort of stuff both in novels and in the RPG print and or course in Forums regarding Las Weaponry.

 

Rather than quote - here's a LINK describing all facets of

 

LAS Tech

Las Weapons by Pattern

 

OK on to the topic at hand:

 

Firstly I'd like to make Las Weapons "count"

 

Seemingly like the smooth bore muskets of colonial era - these weapons are produced and given out en-mass to all sorts of Imperial & Mars Troops - at least that's the intention...

 

With that being said - volley fire seems to be the mainstay tactic behind this class of weapon's use

 

If so (meaning if you agree or think I'm right) then the weapon's mechanics could be adjusted to allow for this...

 

SEE BELOW

FIN

 

As in any house-rule I make I like there to be both PROs and CONs to a tactic's usage!

 

So I need feedback that supports 40k Lore and makes most of us happy - please advise?

 

Morbid

Edited by MorbidDon

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Yeah, I'd suggest no auto-hitting; giving the opportunity to re-roll, or a +5 bonus per previous shot fired would be good.  I'd also suggest raising the Penetration instead of the damage; hitting the same spots repeatedly while tearing through armor ups the effectiveness of the weapon, but not the direct lethality.  

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First of all, what's wrong with:

 

Ranged Volley (Comrade Half Action)
The Comrade lines up with the Player Character and fires upon his target. The Player Character gains an additional +5 to all Ballistics Skill Tests this Turn.

 

Lasgun Volley
Tier: 1
Prerequisite: Ballistic Skill 30, Weapon Training (Las)
Aptitudes: Ballistic Skill, General
The character has trained extensively with his trusty lasgun, including endless drills with his fellow soldiers, ensuring that their shots are perfectly timed to inflict maximum damage upon the enemy.
For each Comrade who is part of any Ranged Volley Order this character issues, this character deals +1 additional Damage (to a maximum of +3 Damage) with any attack he makes with a las weapon (such as a lasgun, lascarbine, laspistol, or lascannon) for that Round in addition to the normal benefit.
 
Five Rounds Rapid
Type: Order (Full Action)
Order: Basic
Prerequisite: Command +10, Lasgun Volley
Aptitudes: Ballistic Skill, Leadership
Effect: The character has learned well that the redoubtable lasgun is at its most effective when backed up by as many additional lasguns as possible. For this reason, the character and his Comrade have drilled extensively in synchronising their volleys for best effect so that even if they cannot kill a target, they can keep it suppressed using the raw ferocity and volume of their shots.
The character making this Order may have any number of his Comrades beyond the first within Cohesion use a Full Action to participate in the Order. As part of this Order, the character issuing it must choose a target and make a Difficult (–10) Command Test with a +10 bonus for each Comrade participating in the Order. If he succeeds, his next ranged attack this Turn gains the Concussive (X) Quality, where X is equal to his Degrees of Success on the Command Test. The character can only use this Order once per Combat Encounter and he must have at least one Comrade within Cohesion to enact this Order.
Edited by Aenno

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Aenno I like the direction of what you've presented as well as MijRai...

 

When formally trained...

 

Lasgun Volley
 
Tier: 1
Prerequisite: Ballistic Skill 30, Weapon Training (Las)
Aptitudes: Ballistic Skill, General
 
The character has trained extensively with his trusty lasgun, including endless drills with his fellow soldiers, ensuring that their shots are perfectly timed to inflict maximum damage upon the enemy.
 
For each Comrade who is part of any Ranged Volley Order this character issues, this character deals +1 additional Damage (to a maximum of +3 Damage; per participating character) with any attack he makes with a las weapon (such as a lasgun, lascarbine, laspistol, or lascannon) for that Round in addition to the normal benefit.
 
Example; 5 man team is ordered to fire upon a target 4 men shoot 1 man gives the order; in this case they are using Las Rifles (d10+3 default damage) which enjoys an additional +3 bonus in this example for a total of d10+3+3 per shooter (x4)...
 
Five Rounds Rapid aka Concentrate Fire
 
Type: Order (Full Action)
Order: Basic
Prerequisite: Command +10, Lasgun Volley
Aptitudes: Ballistic Skill, Leadership
 
Effect: The character has learned well that the redoubtable lasgun is at its most effective when backed up by as many additional lasguns as possible. For this reason, the character and his Comrade have drilled extensively in synchronizing their volleys for best effect so that even if they cannot kill a target, they can keep it suppressed using the raw ferocity and volume of their shots.
 
The character making this Order may have any number of his Comrades beyond the first within Cohesion use a Full Action to participate in the Order. As part of this Order, the character issuing it must choose a target and make a Difficult (–10) Command Test with a -10 penalty for each Comrade participating in the Order. If he succeeds, his next ranged attack this Turn gains the Concussive (X) Quality, where X is equal to his Degrees of Success on the Command Test.
 
I would give a penalty herein due to the house of cards effect - the more people you give a command to the more likely it will go arwy murphy's law if you like - or the grapevine...
 
The character can only use this Order once per Combat Encounter without incident; additional usage draws enemy fire and attention to the commanding character (aka Aggro) - I would go so far as saying in the NEXT SUBSEQUENT ROUND all viable foes perform an attack against the "commander".
 
Then finally the commanding character must have at least one Comrade within Cohesion to enact this Order.
Edited by MorbidDon

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NP - I'd like to get this as right as possible via consesnsus with you all...

 

Maybe FF can adopt our Hopuse Rule here when we're done?

 

Anyways this is what I found per vanilla out of the OW Core Book

 

PAGE83

GET THEM!

Type: Seeping Order (Free Action)

Cost: 200XP

Effect: As part of this order, the Sergeant must make a Challenging (+0) Command Test. If he succeeds, all Comrades

in communications range become inspired by the Sergeant’s fervour, charging into battle with a renewed zeal. For the

next Round, when performing the Ranged Volley or Close Quarters Orders, the Comrades grant their controlling Player

Character an additional +4 Damage to the affected Melee or Ranged Attack.

 

PAGE147

LASGUN BARRAGE

Tier: 3

Prerequisite: Weapon Training (Las), BS 40

Aptitudes: Ballistic Skill, Offence

Through years of practice drills and battlefield experience, the

character has become a master of the lasgun. The character

can use lasguns of all types to unleash devastating volleys of

disciplined fire that can cut down his enemies like the sweep

of a scythe. When firing any class of Las weapon on full or

semi-auto, the character may score one additional Degree of

Success (provided the Test is successful) if he does not take a

Move Action in his Turn.

 

PAGE 270

Ranged Volley (Comrade Half Action)

The Comrade lines up with the Player Character and fires

upon his target. The Player Character gains an additional +5

to all Ballistics Skill Tests this Turn.

 

That's all I could find in the Core Book...

 

I did two word searches for "order" and "volley" in a PDF of the Core Book

I didn't find anything in regards to Lasgun Volley and or Five Rounds Rapid ...

 

Were those two "talents" made up for this forum question - or - were they to be found elsewhere that I may have overlooked?

 

Please Advise (I will continue once I get an answer with my recommended House Rule)

 

Morbid

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If nothing is presented via the vanilla default rules... then my latest suggested game mechanic would be as follows;

 

Weapon Trait: Ensemble

 

When two or more Las shooters hit in the same round!

 

For every TWO SUCCESSES (like the Long Las mechanics) for each "Ensemble" Las shooter (when hitting the same Target + Hit Location + Same Round) reduce the Target's AR by 1-point for that Las-based attack (like Penetration mechanics) for all participating Las shooters that round...

 

+ If a roll of 1% on d100 BS Test is scored by ANY participating Las weapon shooter in the Ensemble - then the affected to Hit Location's AR is reduced by 1-point permanently per TWO SUCCESSES or until repaired...

 

PAGE 22 (Core Book)

ROLL DICE

The player makes a percentile roll as described under Game Dice.

If the result of the percentile roll is less than or equal to the target

number, then the test succeeds. Otherwise, the test fails. If the

result of the percentile roll is 1, the test automatically succeeds,

even if the target number is less than 1. Likewise, if the result is

100, then the test automatically fails, even if the target number is

greater than 100.
 

Example

4 PCs are in a fight against some sort of oversized mutant brute - of that - 3 shoot the mutant with Las Weapons; 2 of these shooters hit the mutant in the Right Arm + between these two PCs they managed to score THREE SUCESSES in total between them - equating to a PEN 1 bonus applied to this volley between these two exclusive PC shooters.

Edited by MorbidDon

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Here's another idea / tidbit that may work to help legitimize Las weaponry

 

Weapon Trait: Avowed

Every Success increases the Minimum Damage value by 1 on the base Dice of Damage

 

example...

 

standard = 1 on D10 (yes I play with RT successes/failures values instead)

1 success = 2 on D10

2 success = 2, 3 on D10

3 success = 2, 3, 4 on D10

 

and so on...

 

I think I will go with this one - in essence all I did was adjust the Proven Trait to Las ranged weapons with a staging component added.

 

If/when applied to other weapons with a staging component like Long Las (every two successes what not and etc) - the Avowed Damage is applied to the weapon's primary Damage Dice only! So say as an example with Long Las I score four successes which grants me an addition +2D10 Damage...

 

I roll Base Damage at 1D10+3 (applying the Avowed Trait herein only)

Then I add the +2D10 on top of that...

 

That's it in essence!

 

I like this mechanic better than my previous suggestion in that it gives a single player some sort of benefit to using Las weaponry without the need to be in a group for the benefit... I think the system herein is simple and doesn't break the game - though combined with something else - who knows, point that out if you see some sort of combination that could be used to exploit the game...

 

Stay GAMING

Morbid

Edited by MorbidDon

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aCCurate
The weapon is crafted for precision attacks, with perfectly crafted
las-lenses or finely honed barrels. This grants an additional bonus
of +10 to the firer’s Ballistic Skill when used with an Aim action,
in addition to the normal bonus granted from Aiming. When a
character fires a single shot from a single Basic weapon with the
Accurate quality while benefitting from the Aim action, the attack
inflicts an additional 1d10 damage for every two degrees of success
beyond the first (to a maximum of an extra 2d10). These extra d10s
cannot generate Righteous Fury.

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Has anyone given ANY THOUGHT as a GM to explain at least - "F" Gamesworkshop for Help how/why do Las Weapons make sound?

 

I have an explanation but fear holy retribution for my technical descriptor LOL

 

My Explanation:

 

Sound & Light are mixed together - sound provides some sort of "tunneling" effect whereby laser light travels through - this "sound" removes particles and such from DE-fracting the focus of the laser...

 

My logic herein is derived from telescopes having to contend with out atmosphere refracting the light

Edited by MorbidDon

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Morbid man, that ain't what I meant XD

In the FFG line when you roll your damage you can always replace one of the 1d10s with your DoS on the Attack Test.

This means if Joe Acolyte gets 3 DoS to shoot his stub automatic his weapon will deal a minimum of 3+3 damage since he can replace the roll on the damage die with hia "accuracy" on the BS Test.

Also from what I know about Las Weapone the sound is a crack like a whip as the air near the barrel expanss rapidly due to the heat produced by the beam. In the lore its always been described as "The crack of a lasgun" and in DH 2E they even go into how loud it is on the table referring to how far certain sounds can be heard.

Edited by SCKoNi

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Has anyone given ANY THOUGHT as a GM to explain at least - "F" Gamesworkshop for Help how/why do Las Weapons make sound?

You know how lightning causes thunder ?

 

Lasers would create sound in the same way. They rapidly heat up the air they pass through*. It rapidly expands. Boom. Thunder is just louder because there is more energy, leading to the air being heated quicker.

 

The laser hits the target. That small part of the target heats up really quickly. It then expands really quickly. Boom.

 

*It doesn't matter if it's heating the air, or if it's only heating dust particles in the air. Either way produces the same result.

 

Also from what I know about Las Weapone the sound is a crack like a whip as the air near the barrel expanss rapidly due to the heat produced by the beam.

 

Not just the air near the barrel. All the air the laser passes through until it hits something.

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SCKoNi I'm all for what's in print as my primary reference first - thanks!

 

 

PAGE 62 - Assassin ONLY

 

Sure Kill: In addition to the normal uses of Fate points (see page 293), when an Assassin successfully hits with an attack, he may spend a Fate point to inflict additional damage equal to his degrees of success on the attack roll on the first hit the attack inflicts.

 

PAGE 229

 

Step Four: Attacker Determines Damage

 

For all attack rolls, count the degrees of success.

 

The attacker can replace the result on a single damage die with the number of degrees of success from his attack roll. If the attack inflicts more than one hit or more than one die of damage, the attacker can replace the result on one die of his choice with the degrees of success from the attack roll. If a natural 10 is rolled any damage die for a given hit, the hit inflicts Righteous Fury.

 

After reading both above and the cross comparing with "Avowed" I would simply changed my house ruled weapon trait to as follows:

 

Weapon Trait: Zeroed

The lens of the Las weaponry bends to focus like the optics found in high power tele-optics...

 

Reroll any damage result of natural 1 on a D10 regardless of the number of damage dice rolled...
Note: This reroll may only be attempted once per individual Dice!

 

Example / Breakdown:

- Las Gun would only reroll once since its damage Dice are base D10+3

- Long Las (Accurate) if/when bonus damage dice are scored for Accurate DoS - all extra dice apply for reroll if/when applicable

- Man Portable Las Cannon (see Rogue Trader) = the damage dice for it I believe 5D10+5 OR +10 (I FORGET); regardless each of the Damage Dice herein is able to reroll natural 1 if/when applicable

 

I like this - now if combined with the basics of rolling damage being swappable with DoS (Page 229) - the two rules should play well together now without breaking the game nor overshadowing each other!

 

FIN

 

Stay GAMING

Morbid

Edited by MorbidDon

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P.S. Las fire makes sound like Lightning - this I like and will proceed with - keep in mind I'm trying to legitimized the concept of Silencers being put on Las Weapons was/is all...

Edited by MorbidDon

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P.S. Las fire makes sound like Lightning - this I like and will proceed with - keep in mind I'm trying to legitimized the concept of Silencers being put on Las Weapons was/is all...

Just remember to account for the difference between the distance the lightning travels and the distance a lasgun shot travels. The long rumble of thunder comes from the sound from different parts of the lightning reaching your ears at different times. A single lasgun shot will have the sound arrive over a shorter period. To get a good rumble going you'll need multiple shots being fired, though they don't all have to be from the same lasgun.

 

As for a silencer, there is nothing you can do to prevent the sound of the laser hitting the target. The damage comes from a piece of the target rapidly expanding as it's heated rather quickly. So there will be a pop there from air being displaced. The more damaging the hit, the louder it will be. 

 

But the beam travelling through air could be silenced. The louder the noise, the more energy from the beam that is lost to the air. But the transparency of air isn't constant, different frequencies of light are more transparent than others. Tune the laser to a frequency that the air is really transparent to and there will be less lost energy, the less noise it makes, and the more energy reaching the target. Reading Atomic Rocket* I see that the most damaging laser shot is not a single burst, but multiple pulses fired in a salvo too quickly for the human eye to see them as anything but one shot. Which gives another silencing option: The first pulses are low powered shots to heat the air less quickly, reducing the sound and clearing the particles in the air so that it's more transparent for the high powered pulses.

 

Now we remember that the Ad-Mech don't like talking about how tech works, so the fluff on how the silencer works can be very vague. It's probably going to require a las weapon built specifically with the silencer in mind. Las weapons not intended for silencing would be cheaper to produce, but we all know how inefficient the Imperium is.

 

 

 

*It also points out that laser weapons would leave quite a bloody hole in someone. 

What would the Asteroid Pirate look like after they got hit?

The method of subsequent explosions on the back of an expanding cavity driving the cavity through the target will leave a wound much like that of a gunshot, except without fun stuff like the bullet fragmenting or breaking up. A variant where nearly parallel beams a few cm apart literally rip the tissue between them could leave a wound looking more like an ugly gash - add on a few more of these beams on the same plane and you could literally cut someone in half with one millisecond pulse, using only about as much energy as goes into accelerating the bullet of a modern day battle rifle. (ed note: in some SF novels by E.E."Doc" Smith and Robert Heinlein, this is referred to as setting your sidearm to "fan beam".)

Will there be a large splash of blood and gore on the wall behind the unlucky pirate?

Quite likely, Note that since you do not have the momentum associated with a projectile, it will be more spread out than you would get from a gunshot wound, and you would get blood and gore coming out the front, too.

I assume that since the beam is one millimeter in diameter but the hole in the pirate is four centimeters, little or no wound cauterization will occur.

Nope, the wound would be ragged and messy. It is created by mechanical, not thermal effects.

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