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Let's fix the Starviper, Hawk, M3A all in one go...

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So I've seen several threads about the Starviper and M3A, and I think I saw the Hawk mentioned a few times as well.

Instead of trying to fix them all seperately, which of course is an option, and allows for a more specialized fix which is better for the individual ships, but would also require several expansions, what if we made a mod that fixes them all?

 

Micro Shield Enhancer - Modification 0 points

Only equippable for ships with 1 shield

Add another shield token to the ship card at the start of the game.

 

This would benefit all 3 ships because they all have a single shield point. It would be an 'easy' fix, but the downside of course would be that the ships might be better suited with a more specialised fix as mentioned above.

It would also make designing another ship with only 1 native shield, harder to balance (since you could always add a shield point to it)

 

Still, I think as an overall fix it would definately make all 3 ships more viable (especially the M3A, which can be blown to pieces in 1 round now, becomes a little bit more durable).

 

What do you think? Too generic a solution? Or quick and easy fix for several ships in 1 go?

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So the ship fixes have all been focused on making the ships better at their intended role.

A good turret secondary made the hawk and y wing feel more like the threats they are supposed to be.

The tie advanced got a discounted systems upgrade slot and it feels very advanced now and fits its role as an advanced fighter craft.

The up coming defender fix is all about the two strengths the defender is known for and the two roles it can have on the table.

Personally I feel the HWK needs something like a discounted system or modification slot.

I don't know enough about star vipers and scyk to suggest a fix but it's not going to be a one size fits all solution.

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The big problem with the HWK is that its built with all of these neat combos in mind, but requires you add a bunch of appropriate to slightly overcosted pieces to the ship that is outright abysmal and overcosted on its own.  You need a turret, you need a crew, probably a very expensive pilot (more a Rebel problem there) and all of them feel balanced around a very expensive title.

 

Honestly, the Moldy Crow title itself feels like the "free boost" the ship needs, but unfortunately it costs almost 20% of the ship itself.  It would be kind of interesting if they fixed it via a free Modification that gave it a significant boost, but reqiured the Moldy Crow title be attached.

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The Starviper and the HWK do not need fixes.  The Scyk would still suck even with a second shield.

 

The Starviper might not need a fix like the X-wing or TIE Adv, but it needs something. A bump like they kept giving y-wings in the way of options I think would go a long way for the Starviper. I would agree with you and others that the HWK is in a decent spot right now, at the very least people are still talking about HWK lists.

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I still feel as if the HWK was designed as a large base ship and at the last moment turned into small when they took a long hard look at the games instead of the west end games books.

It makes more sense to me that way,especially as a lambda counterpart.

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Like we are used to, FFG never fx a ship in such a rude way like modifying the stats only. We have seen it on the A-wing, TIE-advanced (Y-wing and HWK with TLT) and now on the defender and bomber. I don't know how FFG is doing that, but I am always impressed how elegant they are tuning the ships without changing overall stats or cost (at least not only based on cost tuning).i

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Like we are used to, FFG never fx a ship in such a rude way like modifying the stats only. We have seen it on the A-wing, TIE-advanced (Y-wing and HWK with TLT) and now on the defender and bomber. I don't know how FFG is doing that, but I am always impressed how elegant they are tuning the ships without changing overall stats or cost (at least not only based on cost tuning).i

 

In general, ships are "bad" because they're redundant with another ship due to the somewhat limited statistic set of the game, the small model count, and the ability to for one ship type to compose an entire list.  There's not a lot in statlines that can be done to alter this, as the statline quickly devolves into Damage Out vs Durability efficiency on that front.  Instead, ships get fixed by adding additional layers of specialization; non-comparable abilities that provide unique roles beyond the raw stats.  Honestly, to some end, FFG has been able to do it in part because the original game was pretty basic, so there's a lot of design space for complications now that the community has embraced it.

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So the ship fixes have all been focused on making the ships better at their intended role.

A good turret secondary made the hawk and y wing feel more like the threats they are supposed to be.

The tie advanced got a discounted systems upgrade slot and it feels very advanced now and fits its role as an advanced fighter craft.

The up coming defender fix is all about the two strengths the defender is known for and the two roles it can have on the table.

Personally I feel the HWK needs something like a discounted system or modification slot.

I don't know enough about star vipers and scyk to suggest a fix but it's not going to be a one size fits all solution.

The biggest problem for the Scyk is that they named it an "Interceptor," but it doesn't have the dial of the other interceptor-class ships in the game. It can't match them for speed or stress relief. Instead, it has the dial of a jouster. The Kihraxz fighter has nearly the exact same dial, but its statline is much more suited for the role.

 

Within the canon, the Scyk is mostly known for its modularity and capacity for upgrades, so any fix will likely come along those lines.

 

The HWK is a recon ship, so maybe something that would enhance its abilities as a scout craft?

 

The StarViper is actually a great ship with a knife-fighter dial and two amazing ace pilots. The only negative for it is the lack of an Evade action and the low-ish pilot skills relative to the other aces.

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In aviation, an Interceptor is any aircraft that is used to prevent the successful mission of another aircraft - so that designation is not incorrect. But yeah - the Scyk and the Kihraxz are both scum light fighters with rather sub-par dials - however the Kihraxz has the Firepower, Hull & Shields to be effective naked while the Scyk is kinda overpriced naked. [suggestion: Title to improve that dial or gives Action economy; reduce cost by preventing the use of primary weapon]

 

The StarViper is boring outside the named pilots and is poorly customizable without the title. It's isn't that badly off however. [suggestion: Title that non-named pilots can take to improve upgradability]

 

The HWK has a terrible dial, which is completely opposite of the fluff (including from other FFG content). Again this isn't that bad a ship if you play it with combos with other ships. [suggestion: A turret slot upgrade that improves the dial - making it a hard to catch buffer/debuffer; cannot be used with Moldy Crow title.]

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The big problem with the HWK is that its built with all of these neat combos in mind, but requires you add a bunch of appropriate to slightly overcosted pieces to the ship that is outright abysmal and overcosted on its own.  You need a turret, you need a crew, probably a very expensive pilot (more a Rebel problem there) and all of them feel balanced around a very expensive title.

 

Honestly, the Moldy Crow title itself feels like the "free boost" the ship needs, but unfortunately it costs almost 20% of the ship itself.  It would be kind of interesting if they fixed it via a free Modification that gave it a significant boost, but reqiured the Moldy Crow title be attached.

Interesting thoughts. It makes me wonder if some sort of crew discount would be a good way to improve the HWK.

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The Rebel Operative with TLT and Rec Spec is a solid 25 points. Jan Ors boosting Dash to a 5 dice HLC is stupid and game breaking. Kyle and Roark are a bit niche but overall the HWK post-TLT is fine IMO.

Also, the Scyk has a pretty good dial, I don't see what the issue is. Seems as though anything that doesn't have green hard 2 turn maneuvers is immediately branded as having a sh*tty dial. The Advanced's dial is decent also.

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Problem is the Kihraxz would also benefit, and it's already an AMAZING ship. 

Got a good laugh outta this one. Old X-wings were garbage without integrated astromech, yet some people just seem to love kihraxz. Not sure why FFG bothered to release a scum x-wing so close to an x-wing fix (meaning they were aware of the problem). Luckily the kihraxz has a bunch of variants in the lore, so eventually a scum aces title might make talonbane playable (that and the cloak device, but that is luck based).

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I like the idea of bumping up the shields/hull on the Scyk. I've been flying mine at home with Title and Mod cards I made:

(for 2 points you get +1 Hull and Shield... or an extra Hull with an Illicit for options)

"Dirty Scyk" Interceptor

M3-A Interceptor Only. Title.

Your upgrade bar gains the [illicit] icon.

Increase your Hull value by 1.

1 Point.

Stolen Shield Generator

Illicit.

"Increase your Shield value by 1."

1 Point.

Edited by dewbie420

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Problem is the Kihraxz would also benefit, and it's already an AMAZING ship. 

Got a good laugh outta this one. Old X-wings were garbage without integrated astromech, yet some people just seem to love kihraxz. Not sure why FFG bothered to release a scum x-wing so close to an x-wing fix (meaning they were aware of the problem). Luckily the kihraxz has a bunch of variants in the lore, so eventually a scum aces title might make talonbane playable (that and the cloak device, but that is luck based).

 

 

Erm what?

 

Does the T-65 X-wing have a PS5 Generic with an EPT for 23 pts?

 

No, it has a PS4 Generic without an EPT for 24 points. That and it can't take Stim.

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Scyk already has a title option available. Should probably be batched up through a Scyk only mod. 2pt Mod that adds a shield and a boost upgrade? Then we're at 16pts vs a 15pt A-Wing for similar dials (A-Wing dial is just a tiny smidge better thanks to green Hard 2s), both have 4HP and similar actions. Essentially it's one extra point for access to roll and PS2 over PS1. The double maneuver option might make PS5 PtL Scyk a thing.

 

I feel like some kinda cheap mod that adds point of durability is warranted. Even 1 Hull for 1pt is probably acceptable. Then it like, has scum parody with an A-Wing kinda, right?

 

Lots of ships are getting fixed with titles, but I feel like a mod is the way to go for the Scyk, since a title won't impact/benefit the Heavy Scyk at all.

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The Rebel Operative with TLT and Rec Spec is a solid 25 points. Jan Ors boosting Dash to a 5 dice HLC is stupid and game breaking. Kyle and Roark are a bit niche but overall the HWK post-TLT is fine IMO.

Also, the Scyk has a pretty good dial, I don't see what the issue is. Seems as though anything that doesn't have green hard 2 turn maneuvers is immediately branded as having a sh*tty dial. The Advanced's dial is decent also.

 

Outside of Y-Wings, scum has no green hard turns of any type. The lack of 3 turns and 5 straight is also annoying.

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