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mazz0

TFA and prequal ships [SPOILER POTENTIAL]

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So, surprisingly few new ships in TFA, eh?  That bodes well for those of us wanting prequel ships doesn't it, as there's barely anything left for FFG to pull from the new film.  I could see Rey in a Falcon update set, that's about it, oh and the shuttle.  What you lot think?

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The major problem with prequel ships is faction - Republic became the Empire while the CIS is no analogue to Rebels (unlike FO and Resistance being parallells of the Empire and Rebel Alliance respectively. Intro-ing 2 new factions to the game is going to be a BIG problem.

 

I don't have a problem with the ships themselves being made if some sort of lore (Canon or Legends) puts them in one of the 3 current factions. So far only the N1, J-type and Star Courier have reappeared in the lore. None of the AotC or RotS ships have done so despite being more recent ships.

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So, surprisingly few new ships in TFA, eh?  That bodes well for those of us wanting prequel ships doesn't it, as there's barely anything left for FFG to pull from the new film.  I could see Rey in a Falcon update set, that's about it, oh and the shuttle.  What you lot think?

I could see an updated Falcon set, but I'd kind of hope they wouldn't; maybe a TFA crew booster or something, but I'd not like to see two different Falcon boxes on the market.  e: or put them into Rebel Vets, maybe?

 

Otherwise, there's the rear-firing Special Forces variant TIE/fo Fighter, Leia's shuttle, Ren's shuttle, the stormtrooper transports, and Han's big giant freighter.  Not a lot of goodies, really, and I doubt many of them are interesting enough to bother with.  Hoping Rogue One and Ep VIII bring something more interesting.

 

Until then, Rebels still has plenty of stuff to mine out before they need to go back to the prequels, and I think that they'd struggle to do that because of the faction issues.  Plus there's Rebel Veterans which everyone is assuming will be a thing, and Scum Aces which everyone's hoping for, neither of which seem likely to include any new ships.

I do think it's a shame we'll almost certainly not see anything from the prequels because I really do like virtually all of the ship designs from them.  The movies were terrible, but I liked most of the visuals and design work, and I'd love to be able to zip around in a Jedi Starfighter, in particular.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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As much as I loved the cartoons, the PT is a *********** of poor filmmaking and bad decisions. As much as Lucas tried to rip off Citizen Kane (shot for shot in some places, down to Padme's hair), he sort of became one himself.

 

The designers know all this and wouldn't want to introduce an element that would divide the playerbase and lose them customers. It's not about the ships themselves, it's about what they represent. Hell, it's not even about factions. All of them used captured or stolen equipment at some point. Maybe not a Jedi Starfighter per se, but no one's going to say no to a free Droideka.

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Nah, prequel ships are coming, there's only so much EU crap to mine, and many of us stopped being excited by the ships they've been choosing long ago.

 

Factions isn't really a problem - it's Star Wars, you have good guys and bad guys, it's easy to pair them up.  Anyway, I always envisioned them being used in Rebellion era.

 

People talk about how everyone hates the prequels and it would "divide the playerbase" (as if people are going to stop playing just because their opponent might be flying an ARC-170), don't you realise many of us view a lot of the EU stuff as just as crap?  It just doesn't wind people up as much because it's not as prominent.  Personally there are many ships I'd rather not see (because they're hideous and/or unimaginative crap that look like they were designed by a seven year old) but that doesn't stop me playing (Fallout 4 stops me playing).

 

You're all going to be disappointed anyway, mark my words :P

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TFA is surprisingly low on ships, until I realized that what fought at Starkiller Base was the entire fleet.

 

I guess that the destruction of the Hosnian system will be cause for complete war between the Republic and FO, no more of this proxy war business with the Resistance.

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Nah, prequel ships are coming,

I am under the strong impression that ships which exist strictly in the prequel era currently will be the last of the last they look to bring into the game. There is a reason they have gone as deep into the barrel as the K-wing before going for more recognizable ships like the N1. It's because they don't want to put prequel ships in the game. That's the bottom of it. Does that mean they wont? No, not necessarily. It just means they will put in everything, and I mean everything possible before they go that direction.

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As much as I loved the cartoons, the PT is a *********** of poor filmmaking and bad decisions. As much as Lucas tried to rip off Citizen Kane (shot for shot in some places, down to Padme's hair), he sort of became one himself.

 

The designers know all this and wouldn't want to introduce an element that would divide the playerbase and lose them customers. It's not about the ships themselves, it's about what they represent. Hell, it's not even about factions. All of them used captured or stolen equipment at some point. Maybe not a Jedi Starfighter per se, but no one's going to say no to a free Droideka.

 

I'm not saying no to a free Droideka :) Or even a flight or 2 of Vultures :) They'd make awesome guard dogs I bet! :)

 

Unless Disney feels like ok-ing their use in the stand alone films, novels, comics, and other media - its unlikely FFG will have much interest in these ships either. What is interesting is that while no Republic or CIS ships (or any canon ships in parts 2 & 3) have been showing up, scum ships like the Gauntlet and the HH-87 are popping up in new canon media. I think it will be a while before there is any industry interest in the ships from part 2 & 3.

Edited by Hantheman

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How to implement the prequel era is fairly easy, using sub factions and different eras. Though they could potentially just have it where they are just sub factions.

 

Clone Wars Era:

 

Republic: (Main Faction)

-Jedi (Sub faction, featuring the 3 variations of Jedi Starfighter with all named pilots)

 

Separatists: (Main faction)

 

Galactic Civil War Era:

 

Empire: (Main faction)

-Republic (Sub faction, and as the Jedi are their own faction they can't be used by the Empire)

 

Rebels: (Main faction)

-Separatists (Sub faction, potentially with only allowing 50-60 squad points on non-unique ships)

 

Sequel Trilogy Era:

 

First Order: (Main faction)

-Empire

 

Resistance: (Main faction)

-Rebels

 

Though to be fair it would probably more likely split into:

 

Republic:

-Jedi

 

Separatists:

 

Empire:

-Republic

-First Order

 

Rebels:

-Resistance

-Separatists 

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It's a bit more than just creating a faction on paper, implementation is easy - actual roll out of product is much more tricky. In order to create a new faction it would disrupt the current release order. When they released S&V, Imperial and Rebels didn't see new ships for about 9 months. The game lost players and gained some during that period. 

 

There are a few challenges to overcome:

1) The OT and Legends are much more popular than the PT - the chance of recovering development cost on a new product is much higher if the product is OT or Legends based. Rebels and Rogue One are essentially prequels of the OT so there are much less problems integrating content from these media; TFA looks to be exceedingly popular and is worth the risk as well. 

 

2) Introducing 2 brand new factions put strain on logistics. FFG like most companies do not manufacture most of their own products. Factory A probably prints the cards, while Factory B makes the plastic bits like the minis and the bases, while Factory C packages everything and ships it out (This is an over-simplification but the manufacturing process will be somewhat similar). Factory A, B, and C do not work exclusively for FFG and do make stuff for other companies. Whether FFG can expand will depend if these factories can expand or if they can find alternate factories to produce their stuff.

 

3) Lack of cross faction ships. Aside from the Y-Wing and Z-95 none of the ships in X-Wing currently were used by either the Republic or CIS. Scum started with 4 cross faction ships and 3 new expansions. The lack of these cross factions ships make staring the factions increasingly difficult.

 

4) There aren't that many clone war canon starships anyway. There are 5 GAR ships that are not the Y-Wing or Z-95: ARC-170 starfighter, Alpha-3 Nimbus, Delta-7 Aethersprite, Eta-2 Actis, V-19 Torrent starfighter. There are 8 CIS ships: Belbullab-22, Mankvim-814, Fanblade/Ginivex starfighter, Nantex starfighter, Rogue/Porax-38 starfighter, Droid tri-fighter, Hyena-class droid bomber, Vulture-class droid fighter. There are other territorial defense ships such as the N1 or the Umbaran starfighter (arguably the Porax-38 could be in this class). If we have to dig into legends might as well use the OT legends which are more profitable.

 

5) Release cycle. Scum was released in Wave 6. If this cycle holds true it would only be possible to launch a new faction in Wave 11 after Imperial /Rebel / Scum factions have been numerically evened out. As such the earliest this could happen is 2018.

 

6) Scale. Do you have any idea how small many of the prequel ships are? I'd suggest you check out Mel's minis on shapways. He's modelled most of the Clone Wars range of minis in 1/270 - he's been trying to get a workable game up and running for those minis too if you can't wait for FFG to make em.

 

With all these challenges (and more) its probably better to hope that content creators start developing a shine for them and  they pop up in other media - like that spin off movies, animation, novels, comics, new games etc. Which actually leads to another problem - a lot of the PT ships were pretty much entirely rendered with no physical props. With the Disney movies going for a mix of props + CG, having no leftover props means its less likely these ships will show up in em. So movies are likely out leaving the other media.

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TFA is surprisingly low on ships, until I realized that what fought at Starkiller Base was the entire fleet.

Well, for that matter the original Star Wars is surprisingly short of ships. In that movie we got:

Two capital ships (Star Destroyer and Corvette)

A freighter (YT-1300)

An airspeeder (T-16, Luke's model)

Four fighters (X-wing, Y-wing, TIE, TIE-Advanced)

In TFA we get:

One capital ship (Star Destroyer look-alike)

Two freighters (YT-1300 and Han's giant thing)

Two shuttles (Kylo's and Leia's)

Stormtroooper assault craft

Three fighters (T-70, TIE/fo, TIE/sf)

... plus some repulsorlift craft that get blown up, and not counting the carcasses of ships littering Jakku.

Pretty comparable. The original fleet grew for ESB and got huge at RotJ; I'd expect the same thing here.

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TFA is surprisingly low on ships, until I realized that what fought at Starkiller Base was the entire fleet.

Well, for that matter the original Star Wars is surprisingly short of ships. In that movie we got:

Two capital ships (Star Destroyer and Corvette)

A freighter (YT-1300)

An airspeeder (T-16, Luke's model)

Four fighters (X-wing, Y-wing, TIE, TIE-Advanced)

In TFA we get:

One capital ship (Star Destroyer look-alike)

Two freighters (YT-1300 and Han's giant thing)

Two shuttles (Kylo's and Leia's)

Stormtroooper assault craft

Three fighters (T-70, TIE/fo, TIE/sf)

... plus some repulsorlift craft that get blown up, and not counting the carcasses of ships littering Jakku.

Pretty comparable. The original fleet grew for ESB and got huge at RotJ; I'd expect the same thing here.

 

 

Another factor to consider about TFA is nostalgia. The studio wanted an X Wing and a TIE on the poster for all the obvious reasons.

 

Sure, a pragmatic, business minded version of the First Order would use Phantoms, Defenders or something completely new, but neither of those are very marketable outside our game.

 

One issue: how do you have a prequel core set for X-Wing with no X-wings in it?

adam_savage_meme.gif

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One issue: how do you have a prequel core set for X-Wing with no X-wings in it?

 

Easy - you do it like 'Most Wanted'.

 

ARC-170 and a couple Vulture Droids in the kit.

 

New tiles for the Falcon (although I don't think the Falcon's pilot from this era has been revealed), Slave-1 (Jango Fett, obviously), arguably more Y-Wings and Z-95s.

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The Republic would be on the same side as the Alliance to Restore The Republic, if you had prequel factions.  The Separatists, led by the Sith, would be on the same side as the Empire, led by the Sith.  That's if you did prequel factions and not just prequel ships in OT era.

 

And are you sure **** like the K-Wing and TIE Mega Bomber are more popular than ships like the N1, ARC-170 and Jedi fighter?  I doubt it.

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As I've said in a million other threads about this, the factions would be Light Side, Dark Side and Scum.

 

So even though having the Empire and the Republic on opposite factions doesn't make sense politically, that's still how they'd do it.

 

Republic, Rebellion, Resistence.

 

Seperatists, Empire, First Order.

 

Scum, Scum, Scummy Scum.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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Everyone seems to forget that both Star Wars and ESB had very few ships that could be used for this game. Star Wars gave us X-Wings, Y-Wings and the Falcon. There were no new Rebel ships for ESB and then they got the A-Wing and B-Wing from RotJ. Imperials pulled TIE fighters and the TIE Advanced from the first film and then added Bombers from ESB. Slave 1 came from ESB too and you can put that into whatever faction category you want. The Lambda and Interceptors showed up in RotJ. Unless I'm forgetting something obvious none of the other ships in this game originated from screen time from the OT. Everything else first appeared in video games, books or comics (I couldn't even tell you where they all started).

It was never likely that there would be a ton of new ships coming out with this film. That being said I doubt very much they will revisit the prequel eras. Between the things they can mine from TFA and Rebels along with another Rebel Aces pack using existing ships and whatever else they do with Scum that will take us through summer/fall 2016. Rogue One hits theaters in December 2016 so we should have new stuff this same time next year. There is really no reason or need to go backwards into the prequel era that they have said repeatedly they have no interest in doing anyway.

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The day they bring out prequel ships is the day I stop playing.

 

The Prequels sucked, and everything in them sucked by association. Most of the ships were just shoved in their to sell toys (ARC-170 anyone?) to babies. COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW LUCAS.

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The day they bring out prequel ships is the day I stop playing.

 

The Prequels sucked, and everything in them sucked by association. Most of the ships were just shoved in their to sell toys (ARC-170 anyone?) to babies. COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW LUCAS.

 

What utter nonsense.  How was the ARC-170 any more the unoriginal cash-grab than the T-70, TIE/FO or anything else?

 

Frankly I can do without such reactionary types in the game, fortunately I doubt you're many in number.  I'm not entirely convinced you mean it anyway - you'd really stop playing, even with the toys you already have, just because prequel toys were also available?  Ridiculous.

Edited by mazz0

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Everyone seems to forget that both Star Wars and ESB had very few ships that could be used for this game. Star Wars gave us X-Wings, Y-Wings and the Falcon. There were no new Rebel ships for ESB and then they got the A-Wing and B-Wing from RotJ. Imperials pulled TIE fighters and the TIE Advanced from the first film and then added Bombers from ESB. Slave 1 came from ESB too and you can put that into whatever faction category you want. The Lambda and Interceptors showed up in RotJ. Unless I'm forgetting something obvious none of the other ships in this game originated from screen time from the OT. Everything else first appeared in video games, books or comics (I couldn't even tell you where they all started).

 

What makes you think we forgot that Episodes 4 and 5 didn't have that many new ships?  The point was merely that given there are almost no new ships from TFA to include and they've already scraped the bottom of the barrel (and then some) with regards to EU ships, prequel ships are sitting there saying "hey, look at me, I'm here, I'm unused and I'm actually a good design (and don't worry, people saying they'll stop playing if you make me are bluffing)".

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The day they bring out prequel ships is the day I stop playing.

On that day, please take steps to ensure that your rear doesn't make contact with the door as you exit.

 

Ooh, big man! very witty!

 

Just make sure you and mazz0 sit further apart, you're gonna make a mess circlejerking that close to each other.

Edited by jimmius

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I don't think it will happen. They still have untouched content in Rebels. Besides, there's a long list of potential releases ahead:

 

Imperial Veterans

Rebel Veterans

Scum Aces/Veterans

Scum primary huge ship

Scum support huge ship

Ships/pilots from Rogue One

 

If they add one more wave release with some new ships from Rebels (not sure what they might be, I haven't watched the series that closely), that's plenty to get us into late 2017. All conjecture (other than the Veterans releases) of course, but I think everyone at Disney wants to keep their distance from the prequels.

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