Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ziggy2000

Space Rocks has apparently been issued a C&D

Recommended Posts

Guest Andy1909

 

I'm surprised it took them this long to get a C&D. As someone mentioned, if they had been buying Corvettes and turning them into wrecks on a one to one basis I doubt Disney would have objected. But they do appear to have made a mould from the original and used that to produce the wrecks.

 

For all those saying there is nothing wrong with that and IP sucks. Someone buys an FFG TIE fighter. makes a mould, casts a few and then the swarm you paid £66 for is up against one costing £11 plus mould making material I imagine you'ed be annoyed. (and yes I based those figures on 6 TIE swarm)

 

Also you could try asking Alex Davey if he would like to be paid for his work.

First of all, why would you be annoyed if the guy across the table got his stuff cheaper (regardless of the means)?

Secondly, the example has little to do with the situation at hand, since to my knowledge these guys didn't sell anything competing with an offucial product.

 

 

Because there are means and then there are illegal means. I don't mind in the slightest if someone has paid less than me for a legitimate X wing model. I haven't paid the maximum price for all my x wing ships (somewhere in the region of 60+) but they are all from a legit source. 

 

As to it not being relevant. Yeah it is, piracy is piracy and the guy appears to have been pirating FFG models. Just because FFG doesn't make a model of a wrecked Corvette doesn't mean you can rip them off like this. And I am purposefully saying FFG and not Disney in these posts because that's who they were ripping off as well. Everybody hears Disney and thinks, oh that doesn't matter they are a big corporation they can afford it. Now replace Disney with FFG and do you still think the same thing?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the last C&D notice that goes out based on some of the stuff for sale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'd be annoyed if i'd spent £70 quid on my swarm and the guy across from me had bad recasts with droopy wings.

 

Ot to take it to the ridiculous had made his TIES out of blu tac

 

Becasue it would make the game look toss.

What if they were high quality recasts, looking just as good if not better than the original?

Or what if they were FFG models lookng horrible due to various things? Between unfortunate repaints, stuff that broke and wasn't glued back properly and FFGs own sloppy quality on some models, in my gaming group we could field 1-2 full lists that look like they got scavenged from the bottom of a trash can.

 

thats not the point, the point is that someone is profiting for free off someone elses development costs and the imagery they paid a ruckload to licence.

 

FFGs licence to make 'star wars models' would have cost them *millions*, for some one else to just take their hard work and make profit with zero outlay is a bit out of order.

 

On the other hand, their business can be seen as furthering the visibility of the hobby (I fail to see how anyone benefits from less x-wing related products), they're providing a product/service customers want but FFG/Disney is not able/willing to make and their stuff causes next to no loss to FFG because they offer no similar products.

 

 

it doesnt unfortunately work like that.    Doing knock offs with zero quality control from the IP owner has as much risk of damaging the hobby as promoting it.     If the casting standards of a 'wrecked cruiser' are so bad that the buyer thinks that either

 

1. the original its cast from is terrible.

 

or

 

2. it is a product actually from and approved by FFG/Disney

 

then it damages their brand.

 

Now in this case Space Rocks appeared to have been doing fairly good quality piracy (and it *is* IP piracy) but if you let them do it then you forfeit your rights to stop 'joe smiths knock offs' doing bloody awful versions.

 

You cant defend your IP against one pirate if you've set a precedent to allow another.

 

And if you *dont* protect your IP then you get someone recasting the models and reprinting the rules to a much lower quality and 'passing off' the product as official

 

I work in the airsoft industry and you see this all the time as most guns are made in china and they have alsmost zero respect for IP laws.     You get a company like 'tokyo marui' spending years making an accurate, well built replica airsof version of say an AK47.   Within a year you have a dozen companies cloning it and putting a £30 knock off version on market stalls that is rubbish  as it has no quality control.   It doesnt actually help Tokyo Marui in any way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'd be annoyed if i'd spent £70 quid on my swarm and the guy across from me had bad recasts with droopy wings.

 

Ot to take it to the ridiculous had made his TIES out of blu tac

 

Becasue it would make the game look toss.

What if they were high quality recasts, looking just as good if not better than the original?

Or what if they were FFG models lookng horrible due to various things? Between unfortunate repaints, stuff that broke and wasn't glued back properly and FFGs own sloppy quality on some models, in my gaming group we could field 1-2 full lists that look like they got scavenged from the bottom of a trash can.

 

thats not the point, the point is that someone is profiting for free off someone elses development costs and the imagery they paid a ruckload to licence.

 

FFGs licence to make 'star wars models' would have cost them *millions*, for some one else to just take their hard work and make profit with zero outlay is a bit out of order.

 

On the other hand, their business can be seen as furthering the visibility of the hobby (I fail to see how anyone benefits from less x-wing related products), they're providing a product/service customers want but FFG/Disney is not able/willing to make and their stuff causes next to no loss to FFG because they offer no similar products.

 

US copyright law is a mad cluster**** where if you don't maniacally hunt down anyone who violates your copyright you can lose it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'd be annoyed if i'd spent £70 quid on my swarm and the guy across from me had bad recasts with droopy wings.

 

Ot to take it to the ridiculous had made his TIES out of blu tac

 

Becasue it would make the game look toss.

What if they were high quality recasts, looking just as good if not better than the original?

 

 

Ok lets put it another way.   You've written a song, its really catchy and it gets into the charts and you make a modest amount out of it.   To do that though you had to learn to play the piano, have singing lessons, pay for some studio time, hassle for a record contract etc.

 

Then the week later you here someone else has recorded your song, they've just done a new vocal and people think its 'better than the original'

 

You're totally ok with waiving your rights to mechanical song writing royalties and perfoming royalties for playing the piano bits yeah?

 

I mean they've made it better so why pay you for the legwork you did or the creative inspiration?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well given its on their website and they are no longer trading its probably a very elaborate ruse if they have gone bust and it would have been much easier to have done a runner and just shut up shop without saying anything.

 

Putting the C&D up is a simple way of explaining why they are not selling stuff anymore.

 

I can't see any reason for them to fake a C&D from Disney and its also incredibly likely, the only curiosity is how it went on for so long!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why you should always pay with credit card, then you can just do a charge back if they scarper. Admittedly I have no idea if funds are protected in this fashion in the US.

 

 

Definitely.   Years ago my band bought a lot of alternative/rock clothes off a company as 'stage outfits' and it cost us a few hundred pounds.  The whole thing was a scam and loads of people were taken in and left being owed thousands by these people but luckily we paid by credit card and were able to claim all our losses back

 

Most people didnt have that option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

U.S. IP law is rather.. Controversial. There's a lot that merits discussion. But in this case, space rocks has no ground to stand on. That frigate is definitely out of line, and depending on the process the broken ships are too.

Regarding the acrylic templates: FFG has tacitly endorsed them (Or perhaps actually done so) by allowing their use in official events via official rules. It might be possible for the Mouse to crack down on them, but I think the companies would at least have enough of a case to avoid ruinous damage charges. Ruinous costs of litigation, on the other hand...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be annoyed if i'd spent £70 quid on my swarm and the guy across from me had bad recasts with droopy wings.

 

Ot to take it to the ridiculous had made his TIES out of blu tac

 

Becasue it would make the game look toss.

What if they were high quality recasts, looking just as good if not better than the original?

Or what if they were FFG models lookng horrible due to various things? Between unfortunate repaints, stuff that broke and wasn't glued back properly and FFGs own sloppy quality on some models, in my gaming group we could field 1-2 full lists that look like they got scavenged from the bottom of a trash can.

 

thats not the point, the point is that someone is profiting for free off someone elses development costs and the imagery they paid a ruckload to licence.

 

FFGs licence to make 'star wars models' would have cost them *millions*, for some one else to just take their hard work and make profit with zero outlay is a bit out of order.

On the other hand, their business can be seen as furthering the visibility of the hobby (I fail to see how anyone benefits from less x-wing related products), they're providing a product/service customers want but FFG/Disney is not able/willing to make and their stuff causes next to no loss to FFG because they offer no similar products.

 

it doesnt unfortunately work like that.    Doing knock offs with zero quality control from the IP owner has as much risk of damaging the hobby as promoting it.     If the casting standards of a 'wrecked cruiser' are so bad that the buyer thinks that either

 

1. the original its cast from is terrible.

 

or

 

2. it is a product actually from and approved by FFG/Disney

 

then it damages their brand.

 

Now in this case Space Rocks appeared to have been doing fairly good quality piracy (and it *is* IP piracy) but if you let them do it then you forfeit your rights to stop 'joe smiths knock offs' doing bloody awful versions.

 

You cant defend your IP against one pirate if you've set a precedent to allow another.

 

And if you *dont* protect your IP then you get someone recasting the models and reprinting the rules to a much lower quality and 'passing off' the product as official

 

I work in the airsoft industry and you see this all the time as most guns are made in china and they have alsmost zero respect for IP laws.     You get a company like 'tokyo marui' spending years making an accurate, well built replica airsof version of say an AK47.   Within a year you have a dozen companies cloning it and putting a £30 knock off version on market stalls that is rubbish  as it has no quality control.   It doesnt actually help Tokyo Marui in any way.

Ideally, one should be able to decude himself when he wants to pursue copyright and when not, but if the US law works like you guys seem to hint then yeah, it's a no brainer what stance eveyone has to take.

Doesn't make it the morally 'right' choice IMO, but then morality and the law don't intersect all that often

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Intellectual Property is the bane of modern culture.

 

So X can create something, invest time and money in it to make it popular and a success and Y can coast along riding the coattails?

 

Nothing wrong with IP.

If X doesn't give a ****, doesn't produce some piece of merchandise at all

and someone on the side fills the niche

 

it's good. 

 

As long as nobody with the licence produces the asteroids, stations and so on, there's no real reason to DERP the ones that do.

You are missing or ignoring a key point. Everyone recognizes the Milenium Falcon. By creating molds of a destroyed Falcon and then reselling them you are treading on Disney's copyrights because it's still the Milenium Falcon. That there isn't a product on the market like it is of no consequence. As I understand it they were also using specific names of ships and components. That's another big no no.

It sounds like they had cool products. Unfortunately they made some significant missteps along the way. You can't just do whatever you want, you have to take care to not violate someone's rights and Space Rocks clearly did not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh Bother...

 

Greater scheme of things not a huge loss, but I did pay via bank debit.

 

In other news, yay ARGHKITTENS is taking off!

Also, my new PC runs XWA (with the upgrade pack, maxxed everything) perfect.

 

Maybe will gave to get a few scenarios going with friends(subtle hint anyone with XWA here).

Edited by DariusAPB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we even sure this C&D order is authentic?

 

If not they've gone to incredible lengths for authenticity as Michael Jury is Disney's EMEA brand anti piracy council. 

 

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/michael-jury-36763314

 

Have you noticed that his signature looks like two capital M's? I wonder who else has those initials...  :o

Marylyn Munroe

Micheal macintyre

Marilyn Manson

Micheal Moore......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think, what archeonlotet means is this...It's possible that the guy (Mike) had this planned all along.

-Do some rocks and other stuff to get some consumer confidence.

-Take orders on the Neb B and other big ticket items with no intent to ever make or deliver them.

-Keep that "pre-order" ruse going for as long as possible, presumably throughout the Christmas shopping season.

-Put up his own "Cease and Desist" from Disney.  (Seriously, it cannot be that hard to fake it.)

 

Basically, that he just used the Neb B 'product' to round up a lot of income without any intent of ever producing it, and then used the CD for his smokescreen to get away clean.  Hence the redacted dates, by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its a pretty convluted scam, one that actually requires you to make some product is not the usual modus operandi of con men.

 

You'd do it via some sort of kickstarter and just promise the models.

 

Having to make the masters and produce them is a lot of outlay for a one off 'rip off'.

 

Also if the C&D *is* genuine hes got to pay damages to Disney, hes got to pay them back for all thesales hes made too.

 

If Disney were not aware of him before then they would be after faking a C&D off them.

 

Makes no sense not to be a legit IP piracy action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's why, folks, either you play either by the dumb rules, or you make sure lawyers can't bite your arse.

 

Working through third-party. and producing on the side.

*looking at good guy moulders for their great work on DERPing GW

even after their arses got smouldering-black and they began their raids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...